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Author Topic:   Spotting a pyschopath/domestic abuser in a chart
Mysticr
Knowflake

Posts: 8
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mysticr     Edit/Delete Message
This is something I would really like to know and pass on to my female friends. I have friends who have been in abusive relationships, one who was brutally attacked by her boyfriend who appeared charming to everyone who knew him while he was a total pyschopath with her.

Many abusers (both male and female) appear to be charming and lovely at first then turn on their partners. And I've heard so many women say if only they'd known from the outset what this person was like then they'd never have got involved with them.

What placements and planets in a chart suggest a predisposition towards violent and abusive bahaviour?

Thanks Miss Mystic

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Libralove09
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posted February 24, 2009 06:29 AM           Edit/Delete Message
probably harsh moon aspects?

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Azalaksh
Moderator

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From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
After people share their guesses as to the placements and aspects that **might** indicate a psychopath, are you going to mark a scarlet letter on the forehead of everyone you meet with that aspect/placement in their chart??

The natal chart is a map of potentials, nothing more. How people respond to those potentials is **NOT** shown in the chart.

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Mysticr
Knowflake

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posted February 24, 2009 09:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mysticr     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not looking to mark anyone as scarlet. Obviously the way one person relates to another will be the deciding factor should they get together with that person. But it would be useful to know the "potential". I'm not looking to label or upset anybody. Some of us are lucky enough to rely on our intutition when asessing people, others, unfortunately don't.

Miss Mystic

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted February 24, 2009 09:32 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hmm, I think what Zala tried to say was that it is dangerous to *judge* people according to their charts, especially if it deals with such a subject.

I can understand that one wants to know the "warning signals", but I`m not sure this really works.

However, honestly, I think there are - usually- warning signals in the daily interaction *before* the physical violence takes place.

If someone is belittling or ridiculing you in front of your friends or even just in in private, if they are condescing, controlling or manipulative with you, it surely is not a sign of a healthy relationship.


If we want to bring astrology into it, I`d think it was a "symbiosis" of the natal potential, synastry and transits / progression acting as triggers.
But I`m by far not good enough to have the complete overview who will react to what connections in what way (and there still is something like free will).


Example:
My Father has Pluto opposing his Venus, Moon in 8th house and Saturn on the ASC.

His Pluto is exactly opposing my Moon.

But there has NEVER be violence or even manipulation. Actually he treated all of us children almost as "equals" from a young age on and encouraged us to be ourselves no matter what other may say, and when we even only thought "I could need some help", he was there to help us (especially if it was something that he could build with his own hands like the cupboard in my kitchen).

I don`t think that is the most obvious reaction to that strong Plutonic vibe. BUT he also has Sun, Venus, Jupiter in Aquarius, Moon in Taurus and Mars in Libra.

So, I don`t think it`s that easy (or maybe even possible) to tell from a chart alone.


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amowls
Knowflake

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From: Falls Church, VA, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with Zala and DD. Plus, the indicators of such a relationship might not even show up in the natal chart of the abuser, but in the synastry and composite charts of the two people involved.

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Happy Dragon
Knowflake

Posts: 48
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Happy Dragon     Edit/Delete Message
*** Spotting a pyschopath/domestic abuser in a chart***

as far as psychopathy is concerned ..
research has been showing it's some sort of brain malfunction .. i.e. physiological
so with regards to astrological influences ..
a psychopathic brain would probably react differently to a non-psychopathic brain ..

in other words the astrological energies would have a different effect ..
i.e. given one can do a chart for just about anything .. human .. non human .. object etc etc

so .. i think one cannot tell from a birth chart alone ..
'cause the astrological energies are an 'influence' ..
how a human being reacts to those influences will depend on many other factors ..

~ http://www.laurenscharff.com/courseinfo/articles/physio_psychopathology.html ~

~ http://news.softpedia.com/news/What-039-s-Wrong-in-the-Brain-of-the-Psychopaths-675 96.shtml ~

Psychopaths Among Us
~ http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html ~

~ http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_caution_internet.html ~

~ http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/paranoidnarcissismspectrum.html ~

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
to understand astrology and aggression ..
this is a good book ..

" Dynamics of the Unconscious "
seminars in psychological astrology .. volume 2
by Liz Greene and Howard Sasportas
contents:
The Astrology and Psychology of Aggression .. HS
Depression .. LG
The Quest for The Sublime .. HS
Alchemical Symbolism in the Horoscope .. LG

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
and this was from a site regarding domestic abuse ..
( i no longer have the web-link )

** "CAN THE EYES PREDICT VIOLENT BEHAVIOR? " **

Yes, the eyes can predict when someone can become violent," claims Kathy Thompson, prominent Face Specialist. "According to my research, the more pressure and stress a person is under, the more it will show in the eyes.

The more white around the iris, the more dangerous that person can become.

This is true for most people. THE EYES ARE STRESS SIGNALS. Studying faces for 13 years, Thompson has given programs around the country, and has had national media attention. Stress affects the mind and the optic nerves behind the eyes.

This pulls the muscles up moving the irises up into the eye sockets.

White space is revealed under the irises. THIS IS THE SIGNAL - THE SECRET.

The stress can be from your private or public (work) life. Your right eye displays your personality at work. The left side is your personal side. So if the white is under the right eye, there is too much pressure at work. If the left eye shows too much white, it is personal stress.

If it is under both eyes, be careful. They want to unload.

There are different stages; 1) Stress in one eye (from home or on thejob/school), 2) stress in both eyes, 3) extreme pressure (ready to explode), 4) the eyes of a psychopath. If you see eyes with only half the iris showing, don't walk - run away. With even the slightest stressful thought or feeling, the eyes will indicate your true mental state.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
re: emotional abuse

~ http://www.thisisawar.com/AbuseEmotional.htm ~

~ http://thenarcissistandpsychopath.synthasite.com/bullyproof-yourself.php ~

~ http://thenarcissistandpsychopath.synthasite.com/projection.php ~
~~~~~~~~~~~

~ http://thenarcissistandpsychopath.synthasite.com/predators.php ~

Mom, Dad and their children are having dinner on a Wednesday night. Dad is snappy and irritable, criticizing everybody during the meal, spreading his tension around like electricity. When he finishes eating, he leaves the table abruptly and heads out of the room. His ten-year-old daughter says. “Dad, where are you going? Wednesday is your night to wash the dishes.“ Upon hearing these words, Dad bursts into flames, screaming, “You upstart little **** , don’t you dare try to tell me what to do! You’ll be wearing a dish on your face!” He grabs a plate off the table, makes like he is going to throw it at her, and then turns away and smashes it on the floor. He knocks a chair over with his hand and storms out of the room. Mom and the children are left trembling, the daughter bursts into tears. Dad reappears in the doorway and yells that she’d better shut up, so she chokes off her tears, which causes her to shake even more violently. Without touching a soul, Dad has sent painful shock waves through the entire family. We move ahead now to the following Wednesday. Dinner passes fairly normally, without the previous week’s tension, but Dad still strolls out of the kitchen when he finishes eating. Does a family member remind him that it’s his turn to wash the dishes? Of course not. It will be many, many months before anyone makes that mistake again. … Dad’s scary behaviour has created a context in which he won’t have to do the dishes anytime he doesn’t feel like it, and no one will dare take him to task for it. … The abusive man gains power.”
~~~~~~~

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wal
unregistered
posted February 24, 2009 01:56 PM           Edit/Delete Message
In my opinion, domestic abuse is learned behavior, and cannot be predicted using the charts. I think the closest you can get to this is by going the opposite way, looking in the charts of domestic abusers to see what vulnerabilities in their charts lead them to pick this up. The old-fashioned ones to watch for are the Moon, Mars, Pluto, and the 4th house. But someone with Moon square Mars perhaps is not destined to become a psychopath or abuser. Maybe they get angry when they should be responding emotionally, but to react to that by battering women and children is not an outcome of astrological factors.

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sunshine_lion
unregistered
posted February 24, 2009 02:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message
wow hd. riveting reading. I always knew it was something different in the eyes, even years ago, they just looked crazy eyes to me, never knew the specific clue. wow. white under the iris. crazy eyes are a dead giveaway to run and run fast, but by the time you see those white iris' or crazy eyes, it might be too late to run. i almost have thought something else took them over and they were not even themselves, because no control is very obvious at that point.

I think also genetics play a part in things. I have seen it happen too many times, second generation with the fathers sins and from those with little or no contact with the offensive parent. too much of a coincidence to have the same patterns. I don't know that i will ever know this fully as who is going to admit to abusing an abuser..but like i said, i have seen sons commit sins of the fathers, with little or no contact, and i have to wonder if genetics is a prevelant indicator also.

astrology, environment,and genetics, and not in that order.

macro expressions studies are very interesting too.

also interesting story, all too common. manipulation, control and abuse all go hand in hand. I do wishyou hadn't earased that information on the emotional vampire, I really did want to read through that again.

good links hd.

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Happy Dragon
Knowflake

Posts: 48
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Happy Dragon     Edit/Delete Message
~ sunshine_lion ~
the msn site that was named 'psychopath' * where the EV text came from ..
has gone off-line .. they stated it would be off-line this feb. ..
~ http://spaces.live.com/editorial/en-us/render/msngroupsclosure.htm ~

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Happy Dragon
Knowflake

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From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Happy Dragon     Edit/Delete Message
~ http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/malignant_narcissism_vaknin_revisited.html ~

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sunshine_lion
unregistered
posted February 24, 2009 04:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message
i understand why you deleted it. the verbiage exchange is very enlightening in identifying manipulators. I wonder do you think, all manipulating people have a potientail for abuseive relationships? I alos wonder do you personally think all humans to a point use these tactics occasionally whether they realize it or not/ and one more question, since you have obviously researched the subject, at what point do you think a brain differentail is happening? when the line is crosseed? like do you believe it is apparent in many and those who act on impulses have a differntial, or do you think all who have the impulses have a differential? because all humans have impulses they just don't act on them and act out in inappropriate manners. we all wish we could slap the snot out of certain people sometimes.

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 87
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
What placements and planets in a chart suggest a predisposition towards violent and abusive bahaviour?
OK Miss Mystic --
The following is the chart of my son’s father, who has been in and out of jail for Domestic Violence (if only I had known before getting involved with this man). He was a champion manipulator and could turn on the charm like a spigot.
Anyone want to name the defining psychopath/DV aspect(s)/placement(s)??
And can you spot the bipolar aspect(s)/placement(s) too??

Note: This native also became a full-blown alcoholic and drug addict.

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Kay Libra
unregistered
posted February 24, 2009 09:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message
zala - i know someone who has Venus c saturn in 5th house in cap, Uranus Leo 12th, and Pluto 1st house and they're bi-polar also manic depressive. Not sure but about the rest of the chart though. Also I think Moon square/opp Mars can point to some violence unless the person can channel there energies. My son's dad had a whopper of a temper and did hit 2 times. We're no longer together, but he did have Moon opposite Mars, Moon square Pluto, Sun conjunct Pluto, Mars conjunct Uranus to name a few.

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 87
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 24, 2009 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
Hi fellow Libra

I believe "bipolar" is the new term for "manic-depression".....
And, *I* have Moon opp Mars sq Jupiter

I'm going to post another chart in the context of this thread. What do you see regarding abuse or mental disorders??

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cheshirekat
unregistered
posted February 24, 2009 10:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message
My Pisces Moon in the 3rd house is opposing Mars in Virgo in the 9th house and Moon Trine Pluto in Scorpio in the 10th. I have quite a temper but usually this comes out when people push my buttons or push me over the edge and intentially try to make me mad and then Im spitting fire and getting nasty at them for being such a-holes to me because I sure in the heck Im not gonna sit idly by looking stupid and have someone depricrate their crap on me and whip the **** out of me, they can hang that up because I will definately bite back.

Other then that Im calm and caring, though I need to learn not to let negative people get under my skin.>_>;

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IWDWSWLM
unregistered
posted February 25, 2009 01:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message
http://www.astrologyresearchjournal.org/article101704/index.htm

Interesting thing to stumble upon. Also found an article on Ted Bundy's start chart: http://www.astrotheme.fr/en/portraits/638gG3XPTnd4.htm.

I thought it was interesting the Mercury in Scorpio tended to be present in killers.

Naturally, you can't look at a person's star chart and say--Good grief, he's a serial killer! But it's still curious. What's with Mercury in Scorpio, then--why might the communication planet have such a strong response in Scorpio?

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Iqhunk
unregistered
posted February 25, 2009 06:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi Zala,
The first chart has:

Asc conj retro LUST
NESSUS absolutely exactly trine LUCIFER.

So he may find it devilish easy to abuse using strong sexual magnetism of Lust conj Asc and a Mars-Venus trine charm. Retro Lust trine Venus may have activated the Red Chakra negatively.

I had earlier discovered afflictions to Dejanira in ladies who get abused. I am now inclined to think that a male who has afflictions to Dejanira may be inspired to abuse.
And I find here Mars exact square DEJANIRA. Exact.
These are pioneering astrological findings revealed only to Knowflakes.

Again, these only show the probability for abuse, not certainty. The same individual has
positive aspects like Sun conj Moon in 5th Capricorn with Jupiter in second. He could have become a multimillionaire speculator or real estate tycoon [True Node in 4th].

The second chart:
The only pointer to abuse is NESSUS exact square (LUCIFER conj Chiron).

If he is bipolar, there are only three possible reasons:
1. 12th House Neptune is exactly quincunx
by Asteroid CHAOS.
[Tobey's theory of 6th House or 6th Ruler Neptune or Quincunx Aspect ruling mental illnesses]
2. Sun conj PANDORA, plenty of problems
3. Uranus retrograde opposing Mercury in 3rd, irritating the nervous system with too much neural electricity ?

I would also advise anyone whose composite has the guy's Nessus/Lucifer/Pluto/Mars squaring the girl's DEJANIRA with 1 degree orb to be careful. In my study of serial killers, Nessus negative aspect Lucifer, Pluto or Saturn with retrogrades
is always present, irresepective of Sun Sign or Moon Sign. I am also suspecting Asteroid Transylvania and Attila but have not yet tested with my minimum requirment of atleast 20 cases.

Whatever it is, I am now convinced that a chart reading is pointless without a deep study of Asteroids as humanity is now 6 billion+ strong than the 6 million population of classical astrology.

------------------
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Quinnie
Knowflake

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 26, 2009 05:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Quinnie     Edit/Delete Message
I haven't posted for a few days! And so much to catch up on!
Such a good thread and aren't we priviledged having IQ's amazing knowledge on tap!

I do agree though that I would not judge someone by their chart, it is so dangerous as the term innocent until proven guilty comes to mind. Having the potential for something could also manifest as having an understanding of it and can be put to positive use too. As Iq said before of my chart having dark aspects like karma square nessus and lucifer as well as sun conjunct lilith and Pluto gives me (in my opinion) indepth understanding of the darker aspects of life and as I am studying couselling etc, this will prove very useful to me and will be applied in a positive light, to help others.
It's all about how you channel your energy
BUT
It's helpful to see things in a chart if you know how to help the person as a helper or avoid being a victim.

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