posted May 08, 2009 10:28 AM         

Can someone help me a bit with the venus return chart interpretation. I heard that its a suprisingly revealing predicting tool, however there is very little info on how to interpret it. If someone could help me i would really appreciate.

From what i read on cafeastrology the key things to look in VR chart are aspects with NN, Vtx and venus. The placement of venus is also important. I have Vtx on my DC in my venus return chart for 2008/2009. What does that mean, and how important is it? Any ideas on how to interpret that? I'm posting my VR chart as well.

posted May 08, 2009 09:56 PM         

What about Mercury and Venus returns?
Do they tell the year ahead too?

Does Jupiter tell about the next 12 years?

Yes and no.

Look at the house(s) the returning planets rule and work out, based on that area, what is likely to happen for that area.

Which means if you are Libra rising, with Taurus on the 8th, your Venus return will likely be about issues involving houses 1 and 8 (Libra ruled Taurus and Libra)

As Sun rules my 7th, I guess a Solar return would tell me about 7th house issues for the next cycle of Sun, which is one year.

In that SR, my Sun is in the 12th, with Leo ruling house 10.
Not too sure what to make of it except Partner issues have a link with house 10 and Sun in the 12th.
Could meet in a pub. Very unlikely that, I dont do them. Some other 12th house place then.

posted May 09, 2009 01:07 PM         

Well in june 2008 i met this girl and fell madly in love with her, i had my venus on my AC in the VR of that year 2007/2008. Although nothing really happened between us i think i'm still very much in love with her, we'll see what this return will bring till august hehe.

I find those venus aspects significant as well writesomething, probably they have to do a lot with how i feel for this girl. It is intense.

As for all returns i think by them selves they wont tell much since there are a lot of people with the sam venus, sun or moon placement, and that would mean they will have the same return chart as you. Comparing to a natal chart is therefor more revealing, what do you think??

posted May 09, 2009 01:13 PM         

I strongly disagree

They are personal if you look at the houses, house placement of the planets/luminaries, the angles that include Ascendant/Descendant axis and the Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis as well as their sign placement. Even the sign placement of the Moon is important in the Solar Return.

Moon is very personal...even more so than the Sun. Moon changes signs in only 2 1/2 days. It has an average 13 1/2 degree movement per day.

Please remember that houses and the angles are always personal.

I do believe that return chart planets/angles conjunct natal planets/angles are important to look at in return charts.

however return chart Jupiter,Saturn,outerplanets in conjunction natal planets/angles/luminaries is no different from transiting Jupiter,Saturn,and outerplanets in conjunction to natal planets/angles/luminaries.

posted May 10, 2009 06:41 AM         

quote:

---

It's an interesting theory, Coffee, I thought about that too. But unfortunately it only works for those with fast moving 7H rulers. How is a Taurus rising ever gonna get his/her Pluto return?

---

Its all theory with me.

I just wonder how you see planetery returns. Do you see them as 1 year ahead? (Sun/Mercury/Venus) 12 years ahead? (Jupiter)
Basically a prediction tool for the whole chart?

I dont see the logic in doing returns that way.

It is possible that some may not have a Pluto return, but most will. Just look at the number of retro planets in a natal. For them, they will experience the Pluto return at birth. If not, I suggest the Pluto return before birth. It does go back and forth a lot

posted May 10, 2009 07:20 AM         

quote:

---

I just wonder how you see planetery returns. Do you see them as 1 year ahead? (Sun/Mercury/Venus) 12 years ahead? (Jupiter)

---

Yes, except I don't look into Jupiter, not even into Mars. 12 years is such a long cycle, I think the interpretation will lose important edges. Say for instance that during that period of time (from 24 to 36 for example) you started working, got married, had kids, got divorced, lost both your parents, lost your job etc... Too many events happen in 12 years, I doubt I'd be able to read all of those in one chart, perhaps someone more experienced would, who knows.

quote:

---

I dont see the logic in doing returns that way.

---

quote:

---

For them, they will experience the Pluto return at birth. If not, I suggest the Pluto return before birth. It does go back and forth a lot

---

posted May 10, 2009 07:24 AM         

quote:

---

Hehehe Izo thanks, i'll keep that trine in mind . Btw i can confirm your rule, in the year 2007/2008 when i met this girl, i met her after 39 weeks from the VR. 39 was the distance between sun and venus .

---

posted May 10, 2009 07:49 AM         

quote:

---

Yes, except I don't look into Jupiter, not even into Mars. 12 years is such a long cycle, I think the interpretation will lose important edges. Say for instance that during that period of time (from 24 to 36 for example) you started working, got married, had kids, got divorced, lost both your parents, lost your job etc... Too many events happen in 12 years, I doubt I'd be able to read all of those in one chart, perhaps someone more experienced would, who knows

---

12 years IS a long cycle. 1 year is a long cycle.
You look at the Venus/Sun/Mercury returns because they can "reveal" more due to the short period of time in which a prediction can be applied?

No, that is not something for me to consider. Just looking at a few and not others isnt really consistent at all.

quote:

---

How do you see returns, then, Coffee?

---

Read my first post in this thread.
We have a natal chart with enough planets to predict events/something about the person.
Adding returns is too much if you use them as a prediction tool.

If you do want to use them as a prediction tool, taking the house the planet rules will narrow down options - which means you know what you are looking for.

Other than use as a prediction tool, it can be used to see progress. How well you have handled that planet/area since the last time.

quote:

---

Yes, it does, but I don't see the relevance for an infant that his/her Pluto returns. Perhaps you could explain it to me.

---

Take the Taurus rising example. Scorpio on the 7th with Pluto as the ruler. If you use this as a prediction tool for matters relating to Pluto/house 7, the predcition will last a whole Pluto cycle, which will cover birth-life-death. A long time.

A good point to remember when looking at long cycles such as Pluto, when appyling to life events/person, is the way in which astrology works. You dont just do natal charts for people, you can do it for animals, buildings, countries.

posted May 10, 2009 11:05 AM         

quote:

---

You look at the Venus/Sun/Mercury returns because they can "reveal" more due to the short period of time in which a prediction can be applied?

---

Not just because of the shorter period of time, also because of their significance and my interest in that area they represent. I find it difficult to follow how my ideals will evolve in a period of time (Neptune return) than a return of a personal planet. But that's just me.

quote:

---

Just looking at a few and not others isnt really consistent at all.

---

quote:

---

We have a natal chart with enough planets to predict events/something about the person.
Adding returns is too much if you use them as a prediction tool.

---

quote:

---

If you do want to use them as a prediction tool, taking the house the planet rules will narrow down options - which means you know what you are looking for.

---

quote:

---

Take the Taurus rising example. Scorpio on the 7th with Pluto as the ruler. If you use this as a prediction tool for matters relating to Pluto/house 7, the predcition will last a whole Pluto cycle, which will cover birth-life-death. A long time.

---

posted May 10, 2009 11:44 AM         

No idea about persona charts, maybe you would like to explain them in your own words.

quote:

---

I agree with this, but as I said previously, not everybody can make return charts for their house rulers. If a person is Taurus rising and he's interested in timing his love life, making a Venus return is a more sensible solution than a Pluto return because we are talking about people and not countries (though good idea, for countries it makes a lot of sense to apply generational planets' returns). After all, Venus's symbolism is associated with the 7H.

---

Yes, people can get a return involving the outers. Most likely during the early years or before they were born.

For a Taurus riser, you would look at Venus for love, because Venus would represent the "natural" 7th house ruler?

Is that right?

quote:

---

Yes, but how will this person make progress if he only lived a few months, in which his self-consciousness is not even developed yet? What has changed since his birth, really?

---

You mean a transit of say, Sun, in younger years?

Make a paper plane and leave it somewhere. Maybe for 19 years. when a 7th house (or Venus for you) aspect occurs, do the paper plane meet his/her partner?
Unlikely.

Astrology shows the time when things should happen. Your free will determines what does happen. Using that as an answer to your question, if thats what you intended.

posted May 11, 2009 06:09 PM         

quote:

---

In technical terms: A Persona Chart is the chart for the first transit of the Sun over the position of another natal planet. All Persona Charts 'happen' within the first year after a person's birth, when the Sun makes its first circle around it, and 'wakes up' one subpersona after the other.

---