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Author Topic:   The Marks Chart
vesta
Knowflake

Posts: 103
From: Colorado
Registered: May 2009

posted May 13, 2009 01:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta     Edit/Delete Message
THE MARKS CHART
A chart so great I named it after myself
BY (BOB MARKS)

A Davison Chart shows many things about a relationship as a whole. But how many cases are there of one person wanting the relationship and the other wanting out? How many relationships where one person benefits and the other winds up holding the short end of the stick?

A few years ago, I started doing "Synastry" between the charts of each person involved in a relationship with their Davison horoscopes. As I mentioned in Synastry (Chapter 25.0), that frequently gave better results than comparing the charts of the two people themselves.

That was when I got the following idea. You can compare the horoscopes of two people aspect by aspect (synastry) and you can make a Davison chart for the relationship.

Now if you can also compare each chart with that Davison horoscope (more synastry), could you then make another “Davison chart” from each person’s horoscope with the original Davison chart?

First of all, what would such a chart mean? Well, it could show you how the relationship affects each person individually. I tried it in over two dozen cases and it “worked”. Not a statistical sample, to be sure. However, I haven’t yet seen a case when this technique gave incorrect information. In my opinion, these horoscopes supply the missing piece to relationship readings. Naturally I had to name them after myself.

To repeat, the Davison chart is made from by taking the midpoints of the birth dates, birth times, and birthplaces of the two people involved in the relationship. It shows what happens to the relationship as a whole. The Marks Chart is made by taking the midpoints of the Davison chart with the horoscope of each person. Marks charts show what happens to each separate individual in the relationship.

To do a complete relationship reading, you have do the following:

(1) Look at the between the two horoscopes. This tells you something (but not everything) about potential strong and weak points in the relationship.

(2) Check the Davison chart. This shows what the relationship itself (as an individual entity) will tend to be like.

(3) Compare the aspects of both person’s horoscopes with the Davison chart (more synastry). This can indicate more strong and weak points between the two people.

(4) Check the Marks charts to see how the relationship affects each person.

(5) Put it all together and get the complete picture.

Can you take it further? Can you make another midpoint chart for each person with the Marks chart? Or how about a midpoint chart for each Marks chart with the original Davison? In that case, we would be on our way to an “infinite regress” because we could then make midpoint charts from these charts, and so on, and so on.....

But this couldn’t happen. All we have to ask is “What would such charts show you? What information would they give?” The answer is they wouldn’t tell you anything. They would have no meaning.

A Davison chart tells about the relationship as a whole. A Marks chart shows the effect on each individual. Nothing is shown by making other horoscopes. Marks charts are the limit of this technique. They are as far as it goes.

Let’s take a look at some examples;

Phil Hartman’s Marks Chart with Bryn: shows the effect the relationship had on him.

(1) Notice a T-Cross involving Pluto (extremes, obsession, all-or-nothing, death, rebirth) in the 8th house (sex, death, rebirth). Pluto is the ruler of the 8th sign, Scorpio so it would gain strength in the 8th house.

(2) The Sun is the heart of the horoscope. The Moon shows the feelings, emotions, and instinctual drives. Pluto making stress aspects with both indicates that as far as Phil was concerned, this was more of an obsession than a marriage. The Moon rules women in general. That square between Pluto and the Moon shows the woman involved to suffer from extreme mood swings.

(3) Neptune, planet of illusions, is high in the chart and conjunct the Mid-Heaven (career, public image). In this case, that can give a public image which is an illusion. They seemed to be the perfect couple. Until she killed him.

(4) Finally, Pluto is Singleton. It is the only planet in a Fire sign. The sex may have been great (this was probably one thing that kept them together) but the relationship was tumultuous, going from one extreme to another (I love you, I hate you) until it finally ended in a sudden volcanic eruption.

Bryn Hartman’s Marks Chart With Phil: shows how the relationship affected her. Remember that Bryn’s own horoscope wasn’t too stable to begin with. Now we have a Marks chart that has afflictions on its afflictions. Where do we begin? How about....

(1) Saturn (difficulties, obstacles, ambition) making a conjunction with her Sun? This is a very strong tie, not always easy to live with, but difficult to break. And it is part of a T-Cross.

(2) Pluto and the Moon are opposite. This means that the relationship will make Bryn’s emotions go from one extreme to another (I love you, I hate you) and this can happen in a flash.

(3) The Sun/Saturn conjunction makes square aspects with both the Moon and Pluto. Saturn wants “security” but the square to Pluto keeps tearing it down. Saturn making a square with the Moon adds depression to those Moon/Pluto emotional swings.

(4) The empty leg of the T-Cross points to the 8th house (sex, death, rebirth). A positive solution would have been intensive psychotherapy. The negative solution was murder and suicide.

(5) Mars and Neptune make a conjunction aspect right on the Ascendant. Mars is action, Neptune is drugs.

(6) Now here is a case where the so-called “good aspects”, the sextile and trine, can be no good. Mars and Neptune both make sextile aspects with Pluto and trine aspects with the Moon. This means that Mars and Neptune can “mitigate” that stressful Moon/Pluto opposition. By using Mars and Neptune, those emotional swings can be calmed down. Bryn chose to do this with drugs.

(7) The sign of Aquarius is on the Nadir (bottom) and so it rules the home and, the “end of the matter.” Uranus (sudden, unexpected events) is the ruler of Aquarius. It is right at the top of the chart making a conjunction with the Mid-Heaven (career and public image). The end of the relationship and the home was sudden. Whenever we feel threatened in the area ruled by Uranus, we tend to suddenly “eject” from the situation. Uranus also makes a minor stress aspect, a sesquisquare (135 degrees) with the Moon’s North Node. Again, an instinctual urge to eject from unpleasant situations, and to do so suddenly without thought.

(8) Last, but not least, the planetoid Chiron was right at the bottom of the horoscope, conjunct the Nadir and opposite Uranus. Chiron indicates problems that never seem to go away. Remember that Bryn was born with Saturn on her nadir. She thought that her problems would be solved by marrying Phil. Chiron kept them coming back again and again.

The next example is the Clinton-Lewinsky relationship.

Bill Clinton’s Marks Chart with Monica has:

(1) The Sun and Moon together in Taurus, a stubborn sign. Each makes a square aspect to Pluto (extremes) which is in the 5th house (romance). This wasn’t a relationship as far as Bill was concerned. It was an obsession.On top of that, Pluto is both the natural ruler of sex (it rules Scorpio, the sex sign) and the accidental ruler (it rules the sign on the 8th house cusp, which happens to be Scorpio).

(2) Always check out the Angles of the horoscope, the Ascendant, the Mid-heaven, the Descendant, the Nadir, and their ruling planets. In this horoscope, Venus planet of love, is making a conjunction aspect with the Ascendant. Not bad. That shows an attraction. Unfortunately, Venus is making three stressful aspects.

(3) First of all, it has a Square Aspect with Uranus (sudden, unexpected events). This is not a stable aspect, but it is exciting while it lasts ---which is usually not long.

(4) Venus is also forming an opposition aspect to Neptune (illusions and delusions). Neptune is both the natural and accidental ruler of the 12th house. That’s the house of self-undoing. No comment is necessary here.

(5) Venus is also opposite Saturn. I have found from personal experience (don’t ask for the details please) that Venus/Saturn stress aspects usually work out better for friendships than they do for romances. When it comes to love, there is usually an obstacle (like Hillary!) and it tends to end badly.

(6) Now put all this together. Venus (love) is afflicted by Uranus (sudden attraction) and afflicted by Neptune (delusions and self-undoing), and Saturn (difficulties, obstacles, and tends to a bad end). On top of that, Saturn rules the Marks chart Mid-Heaven (career and public image) and Saturn is almost exactly in conjunction with Neptune (self undoing). Hmmm. I wonder what the effect would be on Clinton’s public image with this one?

(7) So what if Venus makes a favorable aspect to Pluto? That just made Bill more hot to trot. In this case, that was not a good thing.

(8) Oh yes. The Ascendant is ruled by Mars (action) which makes a quincunx (a 150 degree aspect) with the Mid-Heaven. The quincunx is a strange aspect. It’s off, it’s on. It’s good, it’s bad. It just keeps switching around, going in and out of phase. In this case, it helped to bring the affair before the public. As did Mercury trine the Mid-Heaven. Trines are lucky. That was probably one of the few things that helped Clinton avoid being removed from office.

Monica Lewinsky’s Marks Chart with Bill Clinton: Also has the Ascendant in Aries and Capricorn on the Mid-Heaven.

(1) Saturn, ruler of the Mid-Heaven (career and public image) is in the 12th house (self-undoing). Did Monica’s reputation suffer at all? Well, she did come (no pun intended) within a hair’s breath of being indicted for perjury. And Saturn (difficulties) makes opposition aspects to both Uranus (sudden, unexpected changes) and Pluto (sex).

(2) There’s another element here. Uranus rules the sign of Aquarius. In this Marks chart, Aquarius is on the cusp (beginning) of the 11th house (friends). Uranus is opposite Saturn (difficulties) which is in the 12th house. The 12th house not only rules self-undoing. It is also the house of hidden enemies. What was the effect of friends on the relationship and the effect of the relationship on friends? A friend (Linda Tripp) turned out to be a hidden enemy by secretly recording the phone conversations she had with Monica.

(3) The Sun makes a conjunction with Venus. This isn’t bad. It shows affection and love. Unfortunately, Jupiter makes a square aspect with both. When Jupiter afflicts like this, it leads to overconfidence and a feeling that nothing can ever go wrong.

(4) Don’t forget to look at Sagittarius the sign that Jupiter rules. It sits on the cusp (beginning) of the 9th house. Long journeys? No. Higher education? Well I’m sure Monica learned a lesson. Legal problems? Bingo.

Now on the basis of all the evidence so far, if one of these people came to you and said they were thinking of having a relationship with the other, what advise would you give?

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/markschart28.0.htm

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 163
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 13, 2009 01:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

Yep

I read that back in 2001

it's a fascinating concept

I haven't really looked at Davison charts much.

I prefer composites.

I will compare the composite chart to each natal chart to see how the relationship affects the person

Raymond

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DD
Knowflake

Posts: 351
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 13, 2009 02:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
I have read about that concept many years ago on a German astrology site, and unlike most here I definitely prefer Davison-charts.
First of all they seem to depict more honestly what is really going on (but maybe I just can`t interprete composites well enough) and also I really don´t like the fact that composites are artificial charts.

I very much believe in that old premise of astrology, which sais that the constellation up in the sky describe what happens on earth.

But the composite never happened.


But I see that it still has value for others; just I have serious theoretical and practical difficulties with it (and yes, sometimes it happens that ASC`s are exactly opposite each other, and what ASC do we use then as the midpoint?).


Well, I just wanted to point out that I think that Davison and also the Marks chart have their merits.

EDIT: But honestly I am not completely convinced in those relationships charts anyway.
natal comparision and synastry really shows what is going on between two persons.

But of course there is the problem that we always look with our subjective glasses on those charts and that we maybe don`t even see the vital points. (that doesn`t mean they are not there, it only means that we still have a lot to learn about how astrology works)

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vesta
Knowflake

Posts: 103
From: Colorado
Registered: May 2009

posted May 13, 2009 03:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta     Edit/Delete Message

I personally don't know if it works it just sounded interesting and I don't remember seeing it before and it sounded interesting.

Thanks Raymond for looking let us know if it works.

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woah city
Knowflake

Posts: 75
From: formerly cakes of the heart
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 13, 2009 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah city     Edit/Delete Message
so would you look at the marks chart as a whole, or just the natal aspects to it, to determine the person's feelings about the relationship?

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Plutonian Persona
Knowflake

Posts: 37
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 13, 2009 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Plutonian Persona     Edit/Delete Message
As much as I like Bob Marks, I think that the guy has a bit of an overblown ego. The Marks Chart is an interesting concept and I've tried using it, but with very little evidence that it actually works.

For synastry, I prefer to use three charts: synastry, composite, and Davison. I have found that using these three to pick out repeatable patterns, aspects, etc. works much better than trying to "Davison the Davison."

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