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Author
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Topic: Saturn Return in the 12th House - The Hardest or the Easiest?
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Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 11:27 AM
 
What is your general, yet calculated, opinion on this? Please share your experiences and knowledge of this transit in the 12th house.Some extra info: My Saturn is in Libra in 12th- (exalted)
My 12th House Ruler is Mercury (Mercury is Ruler of it's own house)
Saturn rules my 3rd and 4th Houses.
Venus Rules my 7th House.
nSaturn(12th) squares nMoon(10th)
nSaturn(12th) sextiles nNeptune(2nd)
My 2nd House Ruler is Jupiter.
My 10th House Ruler is the Moon (Moon rules its own house)
Transits pertaining to above info at that time:
-tSun in 12th
-tVenus in 1st
-tJupiter in 7th
-tNeptune in 5th
-tMoon in 10th To the question of a 12th House Saturn Return (in Libra). I'm in two minds about this. At one hand I think that this will make my life lose more structure and that the Saturn aspects of my life will be difficult to deal with, difficult to face because in the 12th House, Saturn loses all his "juice" and just becomes blank rather than restricting. The restriction will probably manifest through not realizing that the Saturn facets of my personality, and of my life,are being undone. I see this transit to denote a sense of anarchy because the cat(Saturn) will be away and the mice will start to play to my detriment. I can see myself going into the mountains and leaving society!  I see it signifying carelessness, and a wide neglect for details. I also see impatience that will come along with losing resilience and determination to do hard work. I might just refuse a certain truth about a current admin issue and decide to go away and hide somewhere so as not to face the truth. This sense of neglect and even laziness might be exacerbated by the fact that Venus has disposed of Saturn's "seriousness" to make Saturn mellow enough to allow certain things to fall through the cracks of my life, due to taking things for granted. 2nd house, 10th House and 12th house qualities would be the things I will probably take for granted. I will isolate myself even more than usual and delve deeper into my head. On the other hand, I think that things will be neglected but I will probably walk around thinking everything is fine, thus not truly feeling the effects of this transit. The damage done will most likely be seen only when Saturn conjuncts my Asc - when I start seeing the limitations I caused through my 12th house unawareness and carelessness. What's your interpretation?
IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 03:48 PM
A Saturn Return is the same amount hard in every house, I think...although it might be a teeny bit easier for people with a well-aspected Saturn in the 10th house in Capricorn, where Saturn feels at home and the native is used to experiencing that kind of energy.A Saturn Return makes anything your doing that isn't completely honest, open, brave, and true to yourself completely impossible and miserable, forcing you to make a drastic life-change or to wait for 28 miserable, intolerable years until you have the energy to make that life change again. In the 12 house, any secrets you're keeping will have to be revealed. Any self-destructive behavior or ways you unconsciously undo yourself and sabotage yourself will come to a head--drugs, self-cutting, secret rituals, etc. You will no longer be able to cling to or use any of your favorite delusions. Things that are unconscious will be made conscious. Your spiritual beliefs--especially if they are unconscious and/or you're using them for escapism--will be radically called into question. Any of the ways you try to escape reality will become impossible. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 03:51 PM
Christ! That's frightening!!Thanks Lucia23. IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 03:53 PM
In your individual case, because of your Venus placement and Sat in Libra, a lot of this will play out within or surrounding partnerships--who or what you choose to partner with, and the lies or self-deception you allow yourself about those partnerships. It could also hit old baggage from family relationships that you're unconsciously applying to adult relationships and romantic partnerships.IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 03:58 PM
Lucia23 said:
quote:
It could also hit old baggage from family relationships that you're unconsciously applying to adult relationships and romantic partnerships.
This rings very true and highly probable. I just found this also: http://raginguniverse.blogspot.com/2007/06/saturn-through-twelfth-house.html
IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 04:12 PM
It sounds horrible, but the Saturn Return is actually fantastic and wonderful and liberating.Once you figure out what Saturn wants you to do, you'll understand that his cranky goal is actually not to make you miserable, but to make you happy. Usually the things we're putting up with in our Saturn house are slowing us down and making life more mediocre than it has to be. IP: Logged |
MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 705
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 04:13 PM
I went back to look at when Saturn was moving through my 12th (and on my moon too), which was back in '98 (I was 24/25). I had a terrible break-up around that time. I totally agree with Lucia about unconscious patterns emerging in partnerships. It was a harsh, cathartic time, but I was also 24 and had been studying Gestalt therapy and in therapy as well, so it was like the sh!t hit the fan around that time... all kinds of all patterning came to the surface that I was not dealing with. I really was NOT expecting it. My Saturn's in Cancer, btw, not in Libra but it still heavily effected my relationships. Plus it was really hard on my Moon, I think. Also, I had something going on with Neptune squaring my Venus AND Mars, so it was a really harsh thing... Neptune is the cusp of my 12th anyway.
In contrast, I really loved my Saturn Return - in fact, it was one of the most pleasant times. I was expecting this terrible stuff from what I've read, but it was quite the opposite. Such a peaceful time (I've got Saturn in the 3rd house, fairly well-aspected except for a really nasty exact Pluto-Saturn square). I think my Saturn Return is when I really started liking myself as a person, and I wouldn't trade that time for anything. It wasn't perfect, but by contrast to some other transits, this one was really surprisingly smooth! Don't let the whole Saturn Return thing scare you.
So I am curious what t Saturn is going to be doing aspect-wise in your chart.
Does Saturn make an aspect to your Venus in your chart? Where is Venus? Does it make an aspect to Mercury?
Will it be making aspects to them during the transit? I'm sorry, I can only compare to the experiences I've had... wish I knew more. I have a feeling it might not be so bad for you though. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 04:22 PM
The aspects involving Saturn are as follows:nSaturn(12th) squares nMoon(10th)
nSaturn(12th) sextiles nNeptune(2nd), there are no aspects to Venus. Venus rules my 7th House. My Venus is in Virgo 6 degrees 37' 29" in the 11th House. It [Saturn] is part of a Saturn/Mercury/Pluto stellium.  It just keeps getting worse, doesn't it? As for your experience with Saturn Return, I hope mine turns out to be like yours. Correction Saturn is Semisquare my Venus (1 degree orb) IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 04:25 PM
My Saturn Return was fantastic, but it was really tough when I was going through it...sort of like a really tough climb up a mountain, but then at the top there's a beautiful view and you can see for miles and you're in top physical shape and have a great sense of achievement.My life changed a lot. IP: Logged |
MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 705
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 04:43 PM
Unmoved, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Most likely it will be profound and full of realizations that come out of the blue. Maybe certain things that were hard to grasp will be easier to understand at that time.
Ultimately, I'm sure it will be a rewarding experience, no worries And when Saturn hits the 1st it's quite interesting. I began to have a lot more self-discipline around that time, more direct focus, and I'm sure it was also contributed to having the Saturn pass through my 12th right before. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 04:49 PM
MVM - You're right! And Lucia23's experience was also beneficial, regardless of the challenges.IP: Logged |
Coffee
Knowflake Posts: 528
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 06:46 PM
I wouldnt worry at all  Do the opposite.Due to the cyclic nature of Saturn, taking 30 years to move round the zodiac, it is the perfect planet for a person with a human life to experience. It may take a long time to move round, but stays when it returns and in the preceeding 90 degrees, which is only beneficial. You got Scorpio rising?
Capricorn, ruler of Saturn, should be on your 3rd house. All matters 3rd house: transport, music, siblings, communication, voice, and the rest, will get better. Yes, the peak at the return, yet you been experiencing it for a while and its happening right now. Not only when it returns. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 06, 2009 06:55 PM
quote:
You got Scorpio rising?
Capricorn, ruler of Saturn, should be on your 3rd house.
That's correct. quote:
All matters 3rd house: transport, music, siblings, communication, voice, and the rest, will get better.
Do you mean that after my SR, these things will get better? These things are very important to me, therefore, you're telling me good news. I have never looked at it in a 30 year cycle, meaning that when it conjuncts, it is merely the peak of the cycle. Thanks for that. IP: Logged |
Kismet*
Knowflake Posts: 299
From: Venus
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 07, 2009 04:53 PM
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Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 07, 2009 05:04 PM
I'm sorry to hear that Kismet*
If I may ask, did it at least evolve you to a place of peace thereafter? I have had some pretty awful experiences; some have helped me grow and others... well, others had to be let go in order to move forward. So, what did the experience do for you, now that you are looking at it in retrospect?*You don't have to share more than you're comfortable with* IP: Logged |
Kismet*
Knowflake Posts: 299
From: Venus
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 07, 2009 05:07 PM
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Coffee
Knowflake Posts: 528
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 07, 2009 05:21 PM
quote:
Do you mean that after my SR, these things will get better?
No. If its not too far away, which I doubt it is, it will be get better NOW. Peak around the time.
Think of it not only as a cycle ending, but a cycle starting. If you were a business person, assume that when your Saturn returns, if it is on the 10th, your business would be complete about the stage which you set at the start, all ready for the next 29 years. Soon as the conjunction happens, one cycle ended and another starts. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 07, 2009 05:31 PM
I see, Coffee. My SR will be in 2 years. I just like to be prepared, and that's why I've been thinking about it for a while. quote:
All matters 3rd house: transport, music, siblings, communication, voice, and the rest, will get better.
These things above mean a lot to me, so knowing that they will be the most threatened during my SR, it gives me enough time to prepare. So, I'll basically do all the work I need concerning all matters of the third house, and when my SR hits, I'll go on leave and just disappear, i.e. I'll try to minimize my need to do third house matters during my SR. Thank you for the insight because I wasn't looking at the third house, even though it was the obvious thing to do. I was dwelling on the 12th house all along because that's where the SR will happen. and by the way, Saturn rules my 3rd and 4th houses. (placidus) IP: Logged |
Plutonian Persona
Knowflake Posts: 57
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 07, 2009 11:05 PM
Little tidbits...You truly cannot prepare for your Saturn Return! I thought I could because, after all, I have a Virgo Saturn (plus Jupiter and NN) and planning is what I do naturally. Saturn will do what it will with you, the key is to find the patterns that are being dissolved or the ones that need to be dissolved for you to truly become your own person/adult, which is what the SR is all about. There is nothing to fear concerning your Saturn Return: it will be tough and chaotic; if it isn't something truly is wrong!  I like Lucia23's description of Saturn transiting through the 12th house, as I truly look at it as "spring cleaning" for the subconscious before Saturn comes into the light when it crosses the ascendant. This transit will only be tough if you are not being honest with yourself or try to control these changes (like running and hiding...) Remember too that Saturn is exalted in Libra...it likes being there! Good Luck in 2 years time! ------------------
"The only way out is through" ---Robert Frost Pluto conjunct Sun & ASC
Pluto sextile Mars
Pluto square MC
1st house Scorpio Stellium: Moon, Venus, Uranus and Mercury. IP: Logged |
UranusinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 62
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 08, 2009 12:14 AM
I have to agree with Kismet. Saturn in the 12th transit has been hell. I don't have any experience on the return but I agree with what some on here have said about spring cleaning. Do you have any past relationship issues? You may think you don't but maybe you actually do? If you do, Saturn will pull them out and make you take a look at them. I never thought I had any real issues to work with but what happened is that Saturn seemed to create issues in my outer life to alert me that perhaps I should sloooowwwwwwww down and focus on my inner life. I equate it to the storage locker you forgot about then one day find the key to. Saturn makes you go in there and pull EVERY item out ssslllllowwwwwwlyyy and sort everything out. Maybe its been harder that it has been in Virgo for me. But I'm not sure it will be easier in Libra if you have any issues with relationships from your past, forming relationships, autonomy, you current relationships, the fact that you never have had any serious/deep/not light or flighty enough relationships... Also might get isolated. If Saturn has already been in your 12th then you probably know this. This is not a good time to start ANYTHING! That might mean relationships for you but I don't know with it being your Saturn return....so don't take my word for this. I found it impossible to continue with something I had started with Saturn in my 12th. The next time I'll have to start this thing again, Saturn will be in my 1st house to stay (last time it retrograded and the whole scheme burned down and all my plans went up in smoke in the name of "spring cleaning"). IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 74
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted June 08, 2009 01:03 AM
Plutonian Persona - Fortunately (if it can be fortunate) I am chaotic already. Things can definitely get worse though. Thank you for the luck because I certainly need it. quote:
Do you have any past relationship issues?
Yes. I think tSaturn on my nSun (3 times conjunction due to retrogrades) has given me a taste of what's to come. I know myself very well. I certainly don't walk around thinking I'm perfect. This doesn't mean that I am worse than most, but I am aware of my darker nature just as much as I am of my "good" side. Knowing has not helped me, to my knowledge. Awareness can only do so much. Therefore, I hope that SR can get me to finally vanquish a few demons, which is what I am currently trying to do. And the good news is, tSaturn conjuncts nPluto(chart ruler) after nSaturn in a matter of weeks!! [can you smell the sarcasm?] 12th house too. What a joy! Basically, my 12th and 1st houses are my most tenanted. IP: Logged | |
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