posted August 06, 2009 08:00 AM         

Aspect patterns involving the Ascendant are iffy, because the Descendant has to be taken into account....The Ascendant/Descendant is an axis.

the same with aspect patterns involving the Midheaven, the Imum Coeli has to be taken into account...The Midheaven/Imum is an axis

Vertex/Antivertex is an axis

East Point/West Point is an axis

Lunar Nodes of an object is an axis

I notice that some people include lunar nodes as part of an aspect pattern, but that is so, then the nodes of an object can be used as an aspect pattern. After all, the Moon isn't the only object that has nodes. all objects that orbit in the solar system have nodes. They are just the intersection of the orbits of 2 objects.

when it is only objects in an aspect pattern, the objects energize each other.

That is not so with the Ascendant/Descendant, Midheaven/Imum Coeli, Vertex/Antivertex, East Point/West Point axises,and nodes of objects. They don't energize. They are only the receptacles of objects' energies.

If Chiron is used because it's considered to be big, then it's logical to use the following objects in aspect patterns. After all, they are larger than Chiron.

objects larger than Chiron

Asteroids: largest to smallest
Ceres - asteroid dwarf planet
Vesta - asteroid dwarf planet candidate
Pallas - asteroid dwarf planet candidate
Hygeia - asteroid dwarf planet candidate

Centaurs: largest to smallest
Chariklo

Named transneptunians: largest to smallest
Eris - dwarf planet/Plutoid
Pluto - dwarf planet/Plutoid
Makemake - dwarf planet/Plutoid
Haumea - dwarf planet/Plutoid
Sedna - dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate
Orcus - dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate
Quaoar - dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate
Varuna - dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate
Ixion - dwarf planet/Plutoid Candidate
Huya - dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate
Chaos - dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate

There is one dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate codenamed "Snow White" that is larger than Orcus but smaller than Sedna. It is the largest solar system object without an official name.

There are about 70 candidates now, but it is possible that this number will increase to as many as 2000.

Therefore, 70 objects in our solar system are larger than Chiron. Only 3 of them are asteroids. The rest are transneptunians.
None of the centaurs are dwarf planet candidates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dwarf_planet_candidates

Can you imagine Magi Society using all these objects in their system? I can't. It would complicate their system. That's why they are choosy. They don't even use Chiron's fellow centaurs...not even Chariklo which is the largest of the centaurs.

Raymond

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“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 06, 2009 08:18 AM         

i wrote about my natal Kites in this thread a while ago, and aka Kat pointed that out for me. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/201755.html

i said;
i have 2 beautiful Kite formations in my natal chart.

one with Neptune(cj.Venus), Mars, Moon pointing to Pluto (cj. NN)
one with Saturn, Chiron, Mercury pointing to Jupiter (chart ruler)

posted August 06, 2009 08:37 AM         

It would be ok to count it, but I would give it less weight. The energy of any object is relevant. The question is how relevant is it. That's the debate that many astrologers have about objects in space.

there are even inconsistencies of the size argument.

many astrologers say that size doesn't matter when they consider very small Pluto be such a powerful influence, even more powerful than Jupiter the largest planet in our solar system

however,they tend to ignore objects that are smaller than Pluto, and they dismiss them as meaningless rocks.

but some have embraced Chiron and include it as like a planet to the point that there are Chiron aspect interpretations in Solar Fire and other programs, but Ceres doesn't have any. Ceres is much larger than Chiron. It's dwarf planet, and Chiron doesn't even qualify at all. There were some people that actually thought Chiron was larger than Ceres because Chiron is more widely used by astrologers. Also the can of worms was opened when other centaurs were discovered, many astrologers are slow to take them into account. This is especially so with the Magi Society who see Chiron as the main planet for success,marriage,love,and soulmates.. They make it look like the ultimate planet.

the can of worms was opened with the discovery of other transneptunians besides Pluto, but many astrologers are slow to take them into account. When the astronomers found objects approaching Pluto in size, many astrologers were slow to take them into account. Eris seems to be the exception now because it's larger than Pluto. Makemake and Haumea aren't much smaller than Pluto, and they are much larger than Ceres. All 5 of those objects are classed as dwarf planets.

if size doesn't matter and Pluto is considered to be very powerful to the point that its house placement is very significant and its transits are life changing, then it's very possible that smaller transneptunians can be more powerful.

Take Sedna for instance. It's a dwarf planet candidate and has the slowest orbit of any object in our system. Magi Society has already quickly embraced its importance for they now say that it's the most evil planet that it makes Saturn look nice.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 06, 2009 08:58 AM         

exactly. Many things are interpreted differently in Astrology. There is so much diversity,controversy,and discord in Astrology that it makes me wonder if Eris should be the ruler of Astrology...especially Astrology of the 21st century.

"i tend to want to count in my Kite with Chiron, because it's a pretty tight Kite involving my chart ruler Jupiter. but i see it more as a secondary Kite to the other one that involves Mars, Neptune/Venus, Moon and Pluto/NN."

the orb of an aspect is a major factor

Moon square Varuna (dwarf planet/Plutoid candidate) with 10 minutes of arc would seem to be more significant than Moon square Jupiter with a 5'06 orb. That's what I have in my chart.

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 06, 2009 04:19 PM         

Chiron is not classed as dwarf planet like Pluto,Ceres,Eris,Makemake,and Haumea are nor is it a dwarf candidate. It doesn't fit the criteria to be a dwarf planet. It's very small compared to the aforementioned dwarf planets and the 70 dwarf planet candidates.

It's not even the largest centaur in our solar system. Chariklo,named after Chiron's wife, is the largest of the centaurs. Chariklo doesn't qualify for dwarf planet status.

What made Chiron special is that Chiron was the first centaur discovered. It was discovered in 1978,and no other centaurs were discovered until 1992.

What made Pluto special is that Pluto was the first transneptunian discovered. It was discovered in 1930,and no other transneptunians were discovered until 1992.

Ceres was classed as as a planet for half a century before it was demoted and classed as asteroid. It was discovered in 1804,and so was discovered before Neptune.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.