posted September 20, 2009 12:31 AM         

...don't they?

posted September 20, 2009 08:16 AM         

But really, it isn't easy

I can genuinely say that I struggled a whole life with this retro-Mars (by progression it goes direct when I'm 40/in about 2 years).

I strongly believe you FEEL it when you have, I never doubt for a moment that this retro-mars totally fits me.

posted September 20, 2009 11:15 PM         

Rertrograde planetary motion does internalize
that planet's energy, and thence perhaps makes you deal with that energy more intensely - since the energy is not expressed outside, but rather directed at and into yourself.

So a natal retro Jupiter would bring the individual into closer dealing's with it's energies of expansion and grandiosity, but since it's not something that the person projects outwards, or even encounters in the outside world through other people and circumstances as a direct jupiter might.

Retro jupiter would make that expansiveness more personal and subjective to the individual - it will not be as evident to others, but the person might have overindulgence issues, or they may feel like they never know enough, consider themselves less wise than all those around them. This will be a constant internal process being worked on, yet it may be completely undetected by those around him/her.

I think retro planets are trickier to get a grasp on precisely because they do not express as explicitly what their needs and demands are, so understanding and working with them requires for a less conventional approach.

As an example, I have 5 family members all with retro mercury in pisces - how they all
have managed to make it to adulthood in this
world is a wonder.

Communication with them is anything but linear. Their thought process is retroactive - meaning they derive and deduce in a manner that is not exactly easily followed by anyone else.

On a similar note, does anyone here have Retrograde chart rulers? How have you found it to affect (if it has at all) your overall development?

posted September 21, 2009 12:38 AM         

What you were saying about Jupiter retro and how it doesn't feel as wise really struck a chord with me and got me thinking. I have Jupiter rx in Aqua and I am also sometimes insecure about my own 'expansion' or wisdom. In fact, I am VERY private with my spiritual beliefs and do not put it 'out there' for the world to see... and in fact, that creates conflict since my Jupiter is the apex of a T-square as well as the only planet at the very top of my chart, and conjunct my Midheaven! I don't WANT my spiritual beliefs to be too well-known because they are very private to me, and I am always 'testing' them out privately (maybe I feel insecure about them to an extent too) ... but at the same time, my career (writing and healing) are very spiritually oriented, and deal with the 'public' regularly. Soooo.... hmm.
Now you got me thinking:

Maybe retro planets are not aware of their own power, not comfortable with what they represent, so they are more internalized.

-Jupiter rx maybe doesn't feel secure in its wisdom and spiritual path.

-Mercury rx maybe doesn't feel secure with its own ideas and communication, making the person second-guess themselves.

-Venus rx maybe doesn't feel lovable or worthy of love?

-Saturn rx maybe has problems with boundaries, doesn't feel them, doesn't know how to create them?

-Uranus rx maybe doesn't know how to 'take chances' or bust out in whatever areas it needs to bust out of.

posted September 21, 2009 12:51 AM         

Your observations of your own retro Jupiter are great! I would wager that it is one of the most pressed driving forces in your horoscope - perhaps if it was direct, you wouldn't spend as much time analyzing and focusing on your own beliefs and spirituality, which would take away from this amazing internal gnosis that you are exploring and perhaps sharing with the world through your MC?

posted September 21, 2009 01:05 AM         

As for the guy.... no, not at all, quite the opposite - he's very open. However, it's only been a couple of months for us, so we'll see.
His Venus is in the 9th, square the moon and Uranus and quincunx Saturn. I'm trying to remember what else, but that seems like enough aspects to deal with.
Oh, did I mention that his Venus is the apex of HIS t-square? My personal planets make very close contacts to his t-square planets, maybe that's something.
Interestingly, his Venus and my Jupiter conjunct very closely (2 degrees).... I wonder what the hell that does

One thing I DO notice about him is how eager he is to express his feelings of love. I think he is very emotional, though he's also very level-headed (Aqua sun and Mercury). But there's this hunger for love, I think. And from what I know about him, he hangs onto relationships for a very long time, even if they don't work.
So hmm. We're talking about a man in his mid-30s here, so I think the effects of certain aspects sometimes get addressed over time. I think both the Rx Venus and it's despositer being Rx might manifest as maybe wondering 'What is wrong with me? Why don't I get my feelings reciprocated? Why can't I have a relationship which lasts? Is it me?'
So you might be right about the whole thing with not feeling he deserves it on some level. But then there's this faux confidence as well, to hide the pain or insecurity, I feel. And it's like hyper-sensitivity to the feelings of others.

Off-topic:

posted September 21, 2009 01:56 AM         

I'd imagine your Jupiter conjuncting his Venus - both apex planets respectively would be very important!
Not only do you inspire his heart to swell with love and feeling, and generally expand his need to express affection and perhaps find what he values and holds dear, but I think the Jupiter would be some soothing balm to that t-squared Venus of his.

Perhaps your spiritual approach or inner wisdom inspire loving feelings in him.

He in turn perhaps sees the wisdom and knowledge side of you, and values that in you.

What is the declination of his venus? is it possibly out of bounds? I only ask because your description sounds like two people I know with venus out of Bounds - that hunger for love/excessive expression/seeking of love.

posted September 21, 2009 04:05 AM         

This sounds exactly like me:

quote:

---

So a natal retro Jupiter would bring the individual into closer dealing's with it's energies of expansion and grandiosity, but since it's not something that the person projects outwards, or even encounters in the outside world through other people and circumstances as a direct jupiter might.

Retro jupiter would make that expansiveness more personal and subjective to the individual - it will not be as evident to others, but the person might have overindulgence issues, or they may feel like they never know enough, consider themselves less wise than all those around them. This will be a constant internal process being worked on, yet it may be completely undetected by those around him/her.

---

I have Jupiter Rx natally.

I never thought of looking into Rx planets natally before!

I have Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto retrograde natally.

What was written about internalising things.. sounds very accurate.

posted September 21, 2009 09:08 AM         

Rx Mars in Libra, house 4
Rx Jupiter in Scorpio, house 5
Rx Saturn in Libra, house 5
Rx Neptune in Sagittarius, house 7
Rx Uranus in Sagittarius, house 6
Rx Pluto in Libra, house 5

In asteroid land, I also have:

Rx Pallas in Libra, house 4 (conjunct my Rx Mars)
Rx Psyche in Virgo, house 4
Rx Ceres in Scorpio, house 6

Many of them are opposite my Sun in Aries, and also square my Moon in Capricorn-- which are also square each other. And don't get me started on the semi-squares and sesiquadrates. My natal's a tangle, that's for sure. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzu_as7qWSU&feature=related )

I would definitely say that to some degree I "feel" all my retrogrades, though it's hard to tell what's "square energy" and "retrograde energy" sometimes-- it all manifests as bizarre inner tension. I'm certainly not an introvert (quite the opposite) although I do tend to close off emotionally once a certain level of intimacy has been reached. There's are certain levels of me that are closed off to visitors, definitely.

Of them all, I see the Mars rx manifest the most in my life, with rx Neptune as a distant second. I stunt my own progress constantly by denying the reality of my situation and/or misdirecting my aggression (usually toward myself).

posted September 22, 2009 01:51 AM         

Aerialcircus wow to your retros!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe people with many retrograde planets in their natal, or those who acquire such a condition through secondary progressions tend to live life on their own terms, by their own rules..and within their own time frame.

Aerial and MsCandeh have you looked at your progressed charts to determine when and if any of those planets go direct?

This is usually done by quickly glancing at the ephemeris for the year and month of your birth - every day=1 year of your life. so if you were born on the 1st of march 1978, the planetary positions given in the ephemeris for 2nd of March 1978 would equal your 1st year of life, for the 15th of March 1978 = 14th year and so on.

You may find that some of those Retrograde planets have since gone Direct.

And of course it is not a death sentence! It just allows for a different perspective on the same old planetary forces we all have to contend with

posted September 22, 2009 02:01 AM         

I just see them as introspective energies. They could relate to pastlife karma. They also could indicate a time to go over and reflect about things before taking action on something.

in heliocentric astrology, there aren't even any retrograde objects.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted September 26, 2009 02:41 AM         

like if a person has a stationary Neptune,then that person is what you called a Neptunian type of person.

my father had stationary retrograde Neptune himself. He already had Moon in Pisces.

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted September 27, 2009 11:58 PM         

Chiron's already pretty strong for me - it's the only major body on the right side of my chart, is cnj & parallel my DSC, and is part of a grand trine.

In my progressed chart, I have Jupiter and Saturn retro. I'm not sure what to make of the timing for when they turned retro. Jupiter went retro back when I was 17. In the span of two months, two close friends of mine died - one was killed, one overdosed. Jupiter went retro shortly before the second one died. Saturn went retro last summer, a month before my mom died.

The Saturn retro's impact is easier for me to understand. I've always had this irrational anger at the unfairness of life - why should I have while others suffer, kind of thing. So maybe in my mind, I was evening out life's inherently non-egalitarian ways by not having much worldly ambition. I did my own thing, and if accolades followed, great, if not, I didn't care. Because I didn't really want them. Yet they still came. (Jupiter/Pluto = Aries Point ?) I remember an old boyfriend, after we received news that I was winning a prestigious award he coveted that I hadn't even known existed, said, "If you weren't you, you're the kind of person everyone would hate." He meant it as a compliment, I guess , but the truth is I hated myself a little bit. Or was it God I hated? Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that my philosophy finally changed after my mom died. I see any success I achieve as being hers too. And everyone's. Erasing myself from the world stage doesn't put me above any pain in life or help anyone, it just insults God/the universe/etc. I decided to be unapologetic about any good fortune. I can take the bad, might as well take the good too, yes? My Saturn is in my 11th house, so I can clearly see how it going retro coincides with my attitude changing towards my social role.

posted September 28, 2009 01:01 AM         

A good thing about it is that I have a great memory and I always remember what people say (I also have Sun and Mercury conjunct Memoria orb 1 & 0)...People can never go back on what they said or lie to me because I remember conversations word for word.

However, with this Merc retro going on right now I have had tons of problems even though having it natally is supposed to help. Twice I read sales flyers wrong - I went into a store thinking that a laptop was on sale but I had read the previous week's flyer and another day I thought a set of something was on sale but it was just one of something but they mentioned all of the colors so that must've confused me.