|
Author
|
Topic: mackenzie phillips
|
cpn_edgar_winner
Knowflake Posts: 1626
From: Toledo, OH
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 04:33 PM
 
the first thing i would expect to see is neptune retrograde, which it is not.the second thing i would expect to see is more 10th house action. which there is none.  a lot of this chart doesn't make sense to me. nor does most of the public opinion, like she should have kept her secrets to her grave? how does that help other incest survivors to know public opinion is, don't tell...anyway...her chart doesn't make sense to me, shed some light those that are in the know. geocosmic v...I know you have looked at this!
IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1624
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 04:36 PM
In whole sign house system,she has a t-square Saturn in Capricorn in 7th square the opposition of Moon in Aries in 10th and Venus in Libra in 4th. so she does have 10th house activity if using whole sign house system which is the original house system that is used by Vedic and Hellenistic Astrologers. Raymond ------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively" - Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
cpn_edgar_winner
Knowflake Posts: 1626
From: Toledo, OH
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 04:40 PM
and almost all of her planets are on the bottom half of her chart, which to me says, introvert, and yet her whole life has been played out in public...it's like a puzzle that doesn't make sense.IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 2094
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 04:49 PM
looks like saturn in a t-square with moon and venus...also mars/sun in wide conj with neptune in 4th...frequently the house of the father...capricorn (daddy) on cusp of 7...still i think a large part of the puzzle is probably in HIS chart...daddy is his little girl's idol, frequently. and a lot of performers are closet introverts! IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1624
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 04:51 PM
She has a bucket pattern thoughHer Moon is the only planet in Southern Hemisphere.
That's the handle of her bucket That's the planet that funnels the energy of the bucket so the Moon in the Southern hemisphere can be strong focal point in the chart in whole sign house system, her Moon is in 10th house, and so has to do with the career,social status. It's a strong placement for being involved in the public eye. also her Moon is conjunct the Aries point too. planets in aspect to the Aries point can indicate potential for being in the
public eye too. Moon in Aries is an extraverted placement for the Moon. Her Venus is an extraverted placement for Venus.
Her Mercury-Jupiter conjunction is in Sagittarius, an extraverted sign.
another thing too
using traditional house rulerships.
She has Aquarius on 8th house cusp,and so Saturn rules her 8th house Therefore, she has 8th house ruler Saturn in Capricorn in 7th as the apex of a t-square with her Moon in Aries in 10th and Venus in Libra in 4th. so with the 8th house ruler,Saturn highly stressed via t-square, sexual issues.
with the 10th house involved,the father. Her Sun in Scorpio conjunct its dispositor Mars in Scorpio could indicate sexual issues with the father
exactly,katatonic
many performers are introverts! many of them are shy too. Richard Gere talked about how he is shy, and he even said that acting is therapy.
She has Aries 10th house
her 10th house ruler Mars conjunct Sun in 5th, and so career,social status involves self expression and creativity.
Raymond
------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively" - Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
LuvinU
Knowflake Posts: 42
From: NJ
Registered: Jun 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 05:10 PM
I am not really good with the t-square, grand trine and all of that. I'm sure others would be able to see the chart much better, if not differently than I did.She (MacKenzie) also has chiron in the 8th house squaring sun at the tail end of 4th house. Unacceptable sexual development through the homelife. NN in Libra (3rd) squaring her mars in virgo and sun in virgo (4th house)tell me that her inability to make the incest public for so long may have had a lot to do with the impact it would have on the lives of people involved, wanting to make sure it wouldn't impact her talents/hiding it (although, of course they did), and the "all-put-together" facade their home life exhuded. I think she was also confused about love for a long time too. I don't even know if she paid attention to her wants and needs for a long time. Neptune sextile pluto may indicate the power substance and/or alcohol abuse had in her life. I can see that people probably tried to help her get off the drugs too - I can imagine how combative she probably was with them about it aka 'kiss my ass'. The substance/alcohol abuse helped her to get her mind away from the hurt, if not temporarily. Male influence stirring her away from her life purpose as her interaction with him (and other men) really confused the hell out of her as far as interpersonal relationships are concerned. The abuse and incestuous relationship really did a number on her but her life is not over. She may have thought she was doing these men a favor / helping them and it really hindered her ability to accentuate her wants and likes and in turn, made her close off from others for some time. I didn't hear or read her interview - is she into any sort of meditation and the likes right now? I would assume so and that her home means A LOT to her peace of mind. I don't think she'll allow any crap to invade her homelife now. She can definitely relay a message in such a way as to apply light humor to the inappropriate things that happened to her. I think she's strong enough now to really talk about all of this - especialy the impact it had on her health and well-being. She has definitely had the urge to tell it like it is - she may have felt like she was drowning for a long time and was hoping she would be saved or be able to find her way out. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1624
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 05:14 PM
in whole sign house system:
She has retrograde Sedna in Aries in 26'57 Aries in 10th
square Ascendant/Descendant axis in 26'55 Cancer/CapricornThat's only 2 minutes of arc! Sedna in 10th house can be victimized,abused by the father. squaring the Ascendant/Descendant, the abuse effects her personally and her relationships, how she personally relates to others
The Sedna archetype is very strong in her.
In the mythology,Sedna was victimized by her father too! Sedna was the Inuit Goddess of the Sea and Underworld (Adlivun which was located at the bottom of the Arctic Ocean)
Sedna - She is the first body to bear the mythology of the arctic's Inuit culture. Orbital Period: 11,013.05 yr.
Positive - a forgiving disposition, discernment, clarity of perception, recognition of free will and choice, responsible, conscious of consequence, far thinking, dharma-oriented, does the homework of life Negative - victimization, abuse, being deceived, history of betrayal, bitterness, “gold digging” attitude in relationship, transfers blame to others, numbs out, goes unconscious Mundane - blubber, products made from sea mammals, whaling, diving bells that go into the dark of the sea, emotional healing, forgiveness, sorrow, engagement, masks, flight of the birds Ceremonial - cleansing in the sea, propitiation to the sea, sea creatures, use of sea creature talismans (walrus tusk carvings, scrimshaw), ceremony with masks of sea creatures, ceremonial masks in general
http://www.philipsedgwick.com/
using whole sigh house system,
she has the following in her 10th house:
Moon, South Lunar Node, Eris, Sedna,and the Midheaven note: in whole sign house system, Midheaven can fall in houses besides the 10th house in the southern hemisphere.
Raymond
------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively" - Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
Diana
Knowflake Posts: 743
From:
Registered: May 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 05:34 PM
eclipse on her AC. IP: Logged |
blue moon
Knowflake Posts: 884
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 06:21 PM
Luckily I started reading further down before launching into a lengthy and pointless post as now I can just say I agree with Raymond - Moon at Aries point as the handle of the bucket.The Moon is delicate for carrying all that energy. It is also Conjunct the South Node (and opposite Venus), no not easy. IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 435
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:18 PM
im curious what youre looking at and thinking that this chart doesnt make sense, i mean what are you looking for? what would neptune Rx mean to you?if the question is fame/infamy you dont need a heavy 10th house to be in the public eye. look at h10 ruler to get more of a picture of what is happening, the h10 ruler what a person might stand out as, reputation etc. thankfully theres a birth time for her and we have mars as her mc aries ruler. its conj the sun in h4. its also making a conj to neptune and a square to uranus. this is unbridled energy that is v. hard to reign in, and the signs tenanted are fixed. sun in fixed sign conj mars in fixed sign sq uranus in fixed sign. this is not something you just walk away from, in h4 her home life, with neptune the delusions and idealism, etc. she did/does love her father. look at his chart it's sun opp saturn and sun conj neptune, actually his sun is incredibly strong as its supported by so many planets, but that opp from saturn he's trying so hard to escape the early restrictions placed on him by economic conditions or from those in authority. he escapes into the music (sun conj venus) and neptune, it really takes over. for better and for worse. look at her chart ruler its the moon. tsquare with opp to venus and sq to saturn, venus is h4 ruler. now what do you think this says about her self worth as a woman and the way she was valued growing up in terms of self esteem by her mother (moon) and father (saturn). venus is in h3, the house of siblings, have they been there for her or was she pushed out of the way. i looked at her chart on tuesday, when the relationship with her father made news all over the 'net. and initially i doubted her story which is what pushed me to look at her chart, to see if the potential was there and to me it is, i see her story very clearly there. could this be the only story that could have played out, of course not, the natal is potential. when you look at a child's chart you want to look at, i do anyway, all the rotten possibilities, forewarned and forearmed, this is the best way, to know what the child is sensitive to and to help steer them to positive directions, etc. too bad no one looked at hers. why is she speaking out? merc in sagittarius conj jupiter, well thats not really a combination that can be silenced. it's square to pluto, the ruler of her sun/mars/neptune conj in scorpio and trine to moon. aside from the saturn pluto trine sextile neptune this is the only "easy" aspect she has in her chart, minues anything to angles, asteroids, etc. the moon trine merc jupiter is her way "out." pluto in the house of self worth, in h2 with uranus there are reversals in fortune and self esteem, she probably sees this as a way to reverse it to her advantage, personally and financially. but really putting her emotions into perspective and gaining distance (h9) related to mercury and jupiter in h5 in the sign of publishing it makes complete sense. *edit, technically her sun is just about on the cusp of h5, and classically these people like to draw attention to themselves, positively, in a way to show others to be comfortable in positively asserting their own ego/pride, etc. negatively, well, just for the attention and thats it. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 2094
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:23 PM
i've heard the story - its been around a long time at least as rumour - but question? in what frame of mind is she telling this story?this woman was brought up by pretty quintessential, free-love 60s people...not everyone considers incest to be disgusting, twisted or evil. what is her take on it? i have heard one quote which would indicate it wasn't so horrible in her view...something about how jp was a man without boundaries, and full of love...ie she is able to see this as not a crime against herself but an expression of love? plus these people were ALL out of their minds on drugs at the time, where deeds are definitely seen differently than the way the average joe would look at them... IP: Logged |
Plutonian Persona
Knowflake Posts: 116
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:23 PM
The North Node square Saturn shows some serious karmic issues surrounding one's father; add Venus to the mixture and I would say that the entire Phillips affair is the carrying over of some powerful karma that had not been resolved in a previous lifetime. Listening to the entire story and reading about in the paper, I'd say that John Phillips did an excellent job of totally and completely restricting Mackenzie Phillips' ability to love and fulfill her higher self.------------------
"The only way out is through" ---Robert Frost Pluto conjunct Sun & ASC
Pluto sextile Mars
Pluto square MC
1st house Scorpio Stellium: Moon, Venus, Uranus and Mercury. IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 435
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:30 PM
well i think the mother played a part as well but the saturn sq nodes is apt, considering.IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:33 PM
If this chart is accurate (correct time of birth), it is an interesting puzzle. What I am noticing is that she is coming out with this "revelation" at a time when Jupiter is almost exactly squaring her sun. Jupiter square sun traditionally means someone is lying and misrepresenting, someone is inflating or exaggerating, sort of like, all that shines is not gold. However, I am not sure if in her chart this aspect is supposed to mean that she is lying, or that it is supposed to mean that her father, as represented by her sun, was lying and is being exposed. Her sun is at the bottom of her chart, in the 4th house traditionally assigned to the mother, though some people think it is the house of the father. I would need to see her father's chart in order to get more insight, because it would show if he has Plutonic aspects with her.
IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 435
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:42 PM
belage, his pluto is almost exact on her asc, thats one that i remember as well as his mars being very close to her sun.unfortunately couldnt find a time of birth for him. the data i found is August 30, 1935
Parris Island, South Carolina, but again don't know how accurate as its off wikipedia. her chart i saw on astrodatabank which is a site i trust v.much to show how much they know regarding birth data. IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 09:55 PM
Lonake, if his Pluto is almost exact on her ascendant, yes to me it would indicate that he did to her what she claimed. Lemme find his chart. IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 24, 2009 10:51 PM
I can't find a chart for him but I looked up the ephemeris. And you're right, his Pluto is exactly conjunct her ascendant. That's heavy. She has a natal mars/sun conjunction, and his mars and his Jupiter are conjunct that conjunction and it's all happening IN SCORPIO. Normally, Jupiter should bring some wisdom but it seems that in the midst of all these planets, it might have brought out excessively compulsive sexual behavior. Because what she claimed they did was taboo, I looked up her 12th house, and its ruler is Mercury, and it is natally squared by Pluto, Ha! His Saturn and his Neptune square her Mercury, which adds to difficulty of expression and confusion on her part. The only thing about her chart is that I am not seeing the heavy drug use. What am I missing? IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 435
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 12:02 AM
what looks to me is its mars conj neptune h4, 7 deg orb mind, but its there. mars neptune being a signature of drug/alcohol abuse. in the home, h4. mars h4, neptune h4, then mars conj neptune so thats 3 factors. of course many people born during the time when the conj was happening and having it in in their 4th house will not all be the same. i think with this again, we can look at her very personal moon as chart ruler being involved in that heavy t square and what it meant for her growing sense of self worth/or lack thereof and hers just being a very sensitive (cancer/scorpio) chart. not having much of a defense and being pulled into these dynamics. i think the drug abuse started before she was even a teenager. as a young child i think the h4/moon dynamics would have been very strong for her, like all of us, and then taking what we learn to self nurture (moon/h4) into adulthood as how we learn to cope. theres thats sun conj mars square uranus which is very radical and stubborn, fixed signs, would find it hard to live conventionally as well. IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 12:46 AM
Lonake, I am still iffy about the wide orb of the Mars Neptune conjunction, but I am really liking your explanation concerning neptune in the 4th house. Since it's the house traditionally assigned to the moon, and with the moon the ruler of her chart, that would explain the drug abuse. I am pretty much satisfied with this explanation. That's the key I felt I was missing. Thanks a lot. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1624
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 02:07 AM
if you use Cosmobiology,
her chart shows her being more Neptunianof course, many astrologers use midpoints any way. Noel Tyl definitely does. I don't agree with his using 2'30 orbs though. That's way too wide. I prefer nothing over 1'30 when it comes to conjunctions and oppositions. squares,semisquares,and sesquiquadrates only get 1 degree. any ways..... she has the following Neptune midpoint pictures: Direct midpoint pictures:
Neptune conjunct Mercury/Node - '48 Moon conjunct Uranus/Neptune - 1'10
Indirect Neptune midpoint pictures:
Pluto square Saturn/Neptune - '28
Neptune semisquare Sun/Ascendant - '19
Neptune semisquare Mercury/Saturn - '32
(so Neptune = Sun/Ascendant = Mercury/Saturn) Mercury semisquare Neptune/Midheaven - '21 Mars semisquare Uranus/Neptune - '06
(that can pull in the effects of Mars conjunct Neptune)
Robert Hand pointed out that astrologers get away with wide orbs with aspects because there is often a midpoint picture involving the 2 planets in the aspect. Uranus semsiquare Neptune/Pluto - '35 Pluto semisquare Neptune/Node - '45
also her Mars squares the geocentric North Neptune Node in 13'13 Leo.
Raymond
------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"
- Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
DepTaurus
Knowflake Posts: 826
From: canada
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 05:56 AM
omg what happened to her is nasty if its fake or real anyway sex with your father a big no no.and its weriod because she about 1 month younger then my father and the chart resemblence is almost freaky.
IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 1599
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 06:12 AM
Glaucus,"Robert Hand pointed out that astrologers get away with wide orbs with aspects because there is often a midpoint picture involving the 2 planets in the aspect." I definitely agree with him there. And it seems to work in synastry, too. Midpoint picture sometimes can really be spot on and explain something not seen otherwise in the chart.
I remember that Rob Hand Wrote that he would consider the direct midpoints as strong as major aspects.
IP: Logged |
cpn_edgar_winner
Knowflake Posts: 1626
From: Toledo, OH
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 06:40 AM
thanks for your input guys. its a pretty sad story. i think i was looking for the drug problem and not seeing it with the neptune. hopefully she can find peace. some people just never really get much of a chance.IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1624
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 01:59 PM
I want to point out something.
According to Rex E Bill's Rulership book,
Neptune,Pisces,and 12th house are associated with drugs.
so you can look at the 12th house as well as any planets in 12th house. You can also look at the 12th house ruler's placement/aspects in regards to drugs. In whole sign house system, Mercury is her 12th house ruler,and it conjuncts Jupiter which is her 6th house ruler in the 6th house. Therefore, she has 12th house ruler (drugs) conjunct 6th house ruler (health) in the 6th house (health). Also 6th house is daily routine, and so can indicate drugs was part of her daily routine. also with Jupiter involved, Jupiter conjunct 12th house ruler in 6th can indicate excessive daily routine drug use.
House rulerships are very valid in Astrology. They are extensively used in whole sign house system astrology.
She also has the Part of Fortune in Pisces, and so that can be valid too. It's the most important Arabic Part because it involves the Sun,Moon,and the Ascendant in the calculations. She can misuse the Piscean energy of the Part of Fortune leading to drug use.
Raymond
------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively" - Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
lalalinda
Moderator Posts: 265
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted September 25, 2009 08:06 PM
I've never been a MacKenzie Phillips fan
but I've got to give her credit for trying to get better.
(no I don't believe this is a publicity stunt to sell books)Sometimes spilling your guts is the only way, a last chance, no turning back now type. Drug addiction is horrible, absolutely nothing comes before it and you do things a healthy person would never consider. THIS IS A GOOD REASON TO STAY OFF DRUGS. Get well MacKenzie  IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
