posted October 05, 2009 02:12 PM         

but lately i was looking back at things that were old, but not actually old.

like 12- 18 months ago, old conversations, messages, emails, all sorts.

i look back and cringe at some of the things iv said, and how i come across.

when i compare that to now, i realize i really have changed a lot, pluto has still got a couple years at least before it leaves my sun, but i thought i'd like to say, at least to my own realization - i am living proof of that analogy about the butterfly coming out of the cocoon. some one on here wrote it not long ago, i read it, and still didn't see any of this kind of effect.

in the end, all it took was for me to look back at how i was more than 8 months ago.

posted October 06, 2009 11:08 AM         

how i look at things in hindsight such as things iv said, or how iv acted before, just made me realize.

posted October 06, 2009 11:09 AM         

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 06, 2009 11:21 AM         

i guess its gonna continue to trine my sun for a further 3 degrees (wich will make it a 6 orb) after that it will be too weak right?

pluto has been trining my sun since around the end of 2004/start of 2005 (6 degree orb)

my sun is 27' leo.

p.s. its also relevant for me to say that i definitely don't feel finished either, i still feel like im growing up, i could even say.

pluto is currently 0 capi?

this change is also apparent to people who hadn't seen me for over a year, a couple of them noted to some one else who i knew that they think i had changed, "more confident" one of them said..

posted October 06, 2009 12:00 PM         

that's a bit wide for a kuiper belt object like Pluto.

ummmm

may I take a look at your chart?
I think that there is something else going on besides Pluto

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 06, 2009 12:05 PM         

i mean i included the start of the trine at a 6 degree orb at the end of 04/start of 05, when it was around 21/22 sagittarius. (my sun is 27 leo)

if you want to look at my chart details on astro, heres the details -

20 august 1989

4:25am

London, England

posted October 06, 2009 12:54 PM         

I would consider transits from other objects as well as things like solar arcs and secondary progressions

for instance,using whole sign houses

Your Moon has been progressing in the outgoing,fiery,expansive sign of Sagittarius in the 5th house of self expression,creativity
It's now at 26 degrees Sagittarius,and so its only 4 degrees away from entering 6th house which is associated routine,health,work.
currently,the progressed Moon is trine the Sun, and that can indicate a time of increased confidence. Secondary progressed Moon in aspect to planet,point don't last long though.

secondary progressed Mercury is in 10'13 Libra in 3rd from your natal Mercury in 22'41 Virgo in 2nd (growing to be more diplomatic,charming communicator) sextile your Ascendant with 20 minutes of arc applying,and that can indicate the ability to communicate nicely with others and be receptive to others way of thinking.

secondary progressed Venus is in 26'12 Libra sextile your Sun with 53 minutes of arc applying,and that indicates the ability to be more charming and diplomatic. the secondary progressed Venus is trine your Lunar Node with 20 minutes of arc separating which can indicate making connections with others through diplomacy and charm.

secondary progressed Midheaven trine your Mars with 7 minutes of arc separating indictes the potential to be more assertive and go after your goals.

secondary progressed Midheaven conjunct your Sedna (a fellow transneptunian of Pluto) with 28 minutes of arc applying indicate the potential to have goals that are connected to compassion,higher consciousness,spirituality,and concern for the environment.

one of Pluto's fellow transneptunians is in 21'32 Aries retrograde conjunct your Midheaven in 21'08 Aries. That's Eris which is the largest dwarf planet. It has to do with diversity,equality,ideology. For instance, Eris has to do with issues with considering viewpoints of others, the "I am right and you're wrong stuff"

Transiting Jupiter is in your 7th house too.
Vedic Astrologers,Hellenistic Astrologers use whole sign aspects. Therefore, they believe that Jupiter could influence the opposing house and everything in that house regardless of the orb. Therefore, they would say that transiting Jupiter is in opposing your Sun in 1st which would indicate expansion involving the ego,self expression in the areas of the self,appearance.

whole signs aspects aren't used with the outerplanets,the transneptunians objects like Pluto,nor the centaurs like Chiron because the whole sign house system was devised when none of those objects were discovered. It was only meant to work with the visible planets.

Transiting Pluto is conjuncting your Uranus in 6th which can indicate changes in routine.

Transiting retrograde Uranus in 23'53 Pisces is in your 8th house and opposing your Mercury in 22'41 Virgo in 2nd, and that can indicate changes in the way you think and your value systems. The 8th house influence is associated with Scorpio. It involves transformation,regeneration.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 06, 2009 01:09 PM         

again, alot of those sound pretty accurate,

but i was thinking, my 'changes' have been gradual, so i thought pluto wouldve been a culprit since its the slowest moving planet for transits?

and since its had a tight trine on my sun since around mid 08 onwards, (-1/1/1+ orb) i thought it made sense with these changes.

so do you think its a combo of pluto and all the transiting aspects you've picked up on? or if you don't think pluto is responsible at all, what would pluto be responsible for? what kind of changes?

thanks again Raymond for taking the time and effort for looking into my chart.

posted October 06, 2009 01:34 PM         

it could be a combo

also, there could be the residual effect of that exact trine Sun trine Pluto too

after all, we remember past experiences. We have experiences that are in synchronicity with certain transits.
We can relive the experiences in our minds by remembering them which could result in experiencing the effects of those transits again.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 06, 2009 01:45 PM         

peri, i think iv been changing slowly for around 1 - 2 years now,

but its really the last 8-9 months i feel like iv changed A lot, is it possible that the effects of pluto can kick in more after the exact, rather than initially with the exact.

maybe pluto does what it does during the exact trine, but the effects kick in after?

it was said that you don't tend to realize the 'pluto' effect if its harmonious (if i remember right)

posted October 06, 2009 01:58 PM         

then Chiron was discovered in 1977,and it was thought to be unique for it was neither a planet and it's orbit between Saturn and Uranus was nothing like the asteroids that mainly orbit between Mars and Jupiter. 1992, another object was found. That was Pholus. Then more and more centaurs were found. Now there are over 60. Over 10 of them have names.

Pluto was discovered in 1930. Until its satellite,Charon's discovery, it was erroneously thought to be big as our Earth. After Charon's discovery, the astronomers figured out Pluto's size was much smaller than our Moon. In 1992,the first transneptunian object since Pluto's discovery was found. That was 1992 QB1. That was the first classical kuiper belt object. All classical objects are known as cubewanos. Therefore, Pluto wasn't alone. It was 2000 when astronomers found big kuiper belt object. That was Varuna,another cubewano. That led to the intensification of the debate about Pluto not being a planet. They ended up finding an object half of Pluto's size in 2002,and that object was Quaoar. Then in 2005, they finally found a transneptunian object that was larger than Pluto and that finally forced astronomers to come up with definition of planet. It sparked debate among astronomers and finally led to a new class called dwarf planets as well as the demotion of Pluto and Ceres being promoted with both Pluto and Ceres being classed as dwarf planets. That object was Eris. Over 1,000 objects have been found in the kuiper belt. It is thought that thousands of objects reside in that region. Pluto has many neighbors. Sedna has the greatest average distance of them all.

Pluto's fellow kuiper belt objects can easily account for Pluto's astrological influence. With over a thousand kuiper objects in existence, there is bound to be a kuiper belt object in transit to the chart all the time,and that could mistaken for a Pluto influence. I just think that as an astrologer in the 2000's, I should adapt to the astronomical discoveries just like astrologers did when they added Uranus,Neptune,Pluto,and Chiron in their astrological systems.

I feel that the astrological community and astronomical has separated too much from each other. Many astrologers tend to be ignorant of Astronomy,and many astronomers tend to be ignorant of Astrology.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"