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Author Topic:   Am I to sarcastic?
carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
I teach ten classes, 1st and 2nd year university students.

Most classes are great. I would say 8 or 9 of the classes SO FAR, satisfy me. Though the year will advance, of course.

What I want, is passion and creativity from my classes, yet some of my students struggle with that.

One day, recently, one of my classes was annoying me. They just did not talk, one girl even outright refused to talk upon my demand.

When I am annoyed, I admit, I can be VERY very sarcastic and even quick witted. In this one class, it turned into a habit and I really roasted them. I think I cut them down a little to much. **** .

So, I was making a bunch of jabs at this one class in particular, when a boy muttered under his breath "sarcastic". I can't even explain the tone.

But this is my OWN interpretation, perhaps I am not as bad as I seem. I am thinking of apologizing to these students next class because I feel I was to sarcastic to them. my other classes rock, and are even amazing. One outgoing girl really strikes me. Though I don't want one student to dominate the class for obvious reasons.

Anyways, I was just annoyed because I had a bunch of kick as$ ideas, that HAVED WORKED in other classes. But this one class, kind of sucked. I am not afraid to say when a class is lame. I have said it to classes In the past, it has motivated some students. I guess I will see with this one class.

Do I need to tone it down with my sarcasm these days?

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blue moon
Knowflake

Posts: 987
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
I'd say you've answered your own question.

Astrologically we have the Moon in Aries Square Mars in Capricorn written on your chart. Yes you can be sarcastic and demanding. There is a similar offender on my chart so I know how hard it can be to keep that mouth under control when people push your edges. Afterwards I feel bad too, but generally I apologise for hurting someone's feelings not for what I said, there is no point trying to take the words back.

If you are teaching those kids English, slap your own wrist because you got to and too wrong in your post title. I'll assume it was a typo based on Aries need for speed.

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
Actually I am just really drunk, ontop of my desire to type fast, I suppose.

白酒 , Biaju does that to you, beloved biaju. I like the feeling of being witty, like witty in an odd way...I love the expressions I can make.

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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
They are old enough to take it.

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
You would be surprised! I find that, in general, Chinese mature much slower than Western people. I often see freshman, aged 18-20, who remind me of my sister and her friends, ages 15-17, sometimes younger much younger, 13-15. Maybe it is because of the one child policy, but their hand is held for much of their life! Many 20 year old folks can't even travel from Beijing to Shanghai at 20 because parents object. Yet I was going to Africa alone at that age of 21. Maturity is a much slower process here.

I can't explain it, but many of my 18/19 year old freshman remind me of 13-17 year old western people.

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pire
Knowflake

Posts: 743
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
did it work? did they opened up and started talking?

u've already done 80% of the work by analysing your style objectively; now the 20% left is just acting on it; and changing the tactic.
c'est très difficile d'enseigner, tu as du mérite. félicite-toi pour les fois où tu y arrives. parfois, une langue étrangère peut faire peur, surtout quand on est en groupe et que les amis se moquent de nous.

bon courage avec ce groupe.

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Anicia
Knowflake

Posts: 40
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2009

posted October 16, 2009 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Anicia     Edit/Delete Message
Speaking as a second year college student I'll say that people 18-20 years old can be extremely fickle. You should hear some of the conversations about professors that take place before class and how much they can vary day to day.

I think that if they're there to learn and actually want to get through the class they aren't going to sulk on one bad day. Everyone has a bad day.

When they don't bother after that they've already made up their mind not to try and that isn't your fault.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 1582
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Reminds me of Gordon Ramsey. He's a Scorp, and he also seems to detest it when people aren't passionate. Some passion is more quietly displayed, and some people resent having to put on a show for someone just to prove that they're into what they're doing.

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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
OMG, Gordon is a Scorpio?!
No wonder I his show!

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 1582
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Gordon does seem very cool when he's not dealing with idiots/idiocy.

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 02:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
This is an oral class, so my cr@p spelling doesn't play as huge as a role as you may think. Not much writing/reading.

I ask them to talk to me about what they are passionate about. It is like I am scraping their teeth, some of them. What do you love to do?

I asked them to tell me about their culture and they just didn't have that much to say. They all say they are proud of China but can't really explain the culture. Maybe because it has all been torn down and in its place, rests many high rise apartments and shopping complexes. It really is "in with the new, out with the old" here. All I hear are empty "5000 years of history" statements from them. Empty because they have nothing more to say really after that.

I say

1. Where can I see that 5000 years of history? (Culture Rev. was devastating for this)
2. So? Australia has 50,000...

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blue moon
Knowflake

Posts: 987
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Forgive me for saying this Carl, but is this a fruitful approach for the Chinese psyche? It is maybe a little forceful and challenging for a nation reknowned for its face-saving.

Though I say this from the perspective of a week's visit and what I have read in books and newspapers, so I don't claim to be any authority.

However, I was struck by AG's quote below. AG and I have Moons seconds apart and both are conjoined with Pluto. There are those times when I have the feeling of shutters slamming down. If someone presses too hard to find out how I feel about something. Though I'm not saying the whole class would have the same aspect, as a collective you might have a greater Plutonic influence than another group. Maybe it is an age thing?

quote:
Some passion is more quietly displayed, and some people resent having to put on a show for someone just to prove that they're into what they're doing.

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 03:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
Oh, yah, AGs quote struck me. I actually hate to put on shows and don't approach my desire for passion from that angle. I might have worded my post in a way which made me seem forceful, but I am not. I hate fake displays of feelings and emotions and they are pretty easy to spot. Out of class, or before class, the students are very loud, like school kids in the west.

I know about face saving and I had that talk with them the second class. But I also want them to elaborate, or I will challenge. 5000 years history? Yah, I have heard that two hundred times (seriously). And?

I mean, I guess like I said, I can challenge them. But sometimes I just act as if I am dumb (contradictory to what I said I know) and say "Where is the 5000 years history?" with an innocent naive smile/grin. Okay, I don't like to act emotions, but in that case, it is effective and subtle, nothing overblown like faking passion.

So, I don't challenge to much, from my (potentially biased) perspective.

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Lonake
Knowflake

Posts: 469
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
ahaha i believe it! sun conj saturn scorpio on mc, and mars in capricorn conj asc, sq moon in aries - you sure are a hard ass! ha, id drop the class after having been forced to entertain you, after of course we pursued a hot student teacher affair as your mars is conj my venus

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 03:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
Oh cr@p, I am not a hard ass, I worded it maybe a little wrong, because I myself got a little heated/ passionate while writing.

I DO NOT demand students to put on a show. I try to allow them many creative outlets to practice. I can be subtly and silently disappointed at how they approach things from either a standard angle, or none at all sometimes. But I offer "acting" as an option during some activities.

But it does get rather boring when I point to a student, to practice, AFTER the room goes silent at the start of an activity. The student stands up, mutters, asks her friend in Chinese what to say, and translates what her friend says. Ugh, two hours of that. It is due to laziness, playing with cell phones, etc. Because almost all of my other classes rock! I do call names sometimes if there is silence and no volunteers. That is effective and the Chinese way but in most classes, students volunteer to talk.

But in no way do I demand for them to put on a show for me. If anything, I would just love to come into class and have a conversation with them. Acting is their choice, and outgoing students with great skills often choose it to make the class laugh.

I am totally not a hard ass, far from it. My students loved me last year when they understood my approach. It took a while to stick for them, but they loved how they could express themselves. Because Chinese teachers are typically the ones who are a hard ass. Actually, if anything, Chinese are the ones who expect me to entertain them. Some think a western teacher as nothing more than a clown and entertainer, a break from the strict Chinese teacher. In that case, NO! For example, students always ask me to sing for them! A few students last year even said "we won't let you leave the room until you sing for us." Yah, it is the opposite of what you have expressed actually. In the west, we would never ask a teacher to sing. I don't ever recall asking a friend this, or vise versa as it is an odd question IMO.

I am actually pretty laid back as a teacher.

But if I get the silent treatment, or less effort than I feel they are capable of, yes, I lash out in a bout of sarcastic quips.

A few students in that class are actually very good. Ironically, I teach another class of that major, same year and everything, and they are pretty darn good.

As for the affair, that comes after they finish college, if I am interested. An affair with a student anywhere on campus is totally unprofessional and I am not that dumb.

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Lonake
Knowflake

Posts: 469
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
ok, yea, the wording was pretty strong.. but still, really long explanation there

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
Oh well.

well..thanks. for reading.

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Lonake
Knowflake

Posts: 469
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 03:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
oh, i wasn't being very serious in the 2 prev.posts. but i am in this one.

cheers!

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
I know. Or I sort of had the feeling I should say.

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StarrofVenusGirl
Knowflake

Posts: 269
From:
Registered: Jun 2009

posted October 17, 2009 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I find that, in general, Chinese mature much slower than Western people

Boy, is this true! I have a coworker in her 40s, who is native Chinese, but in personality she is like a small child to us. Easily fascinated by the oddest things, very naive, and highly sensitive. She will call her parents in CHINA to ask them questions like what dentist she should choose, things like that. Apparently she was very sheltered as a child and although she has lived in the U.S. for many years now, there is always something new for her to learn.

As far as your students, it sounds like you all are still getting to know each other? I think it will get better with time once the dynamic settles a bit.

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Astra
Knowflake

Posts: 92
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astra     Edit/Delete Message
Carl,

I don't think you're being remotely cruel at all! In one my biology classes, the students did not want to participate for whatever reason. Normally, they are very enthusiastic and love to answer questions or discuss their thoughts, but for just one day, the students didn't feel like talking. After several failed attempts at getting the students to participate, my professor slapped us with a surprise quiz, which was harder than the midterm we took the week before! Afterwards, the professor scolded us very severely and flat out insulted a few students to the point where they burst out crying and fled the room. Now *that's* going too far.

You are by no means a harsh professor by the way you described the situation.

In regards to the students who wouldn't even travel within their country without their parents' permission, one possible reason is that they think that if they were to go against their parents' wishes, their parents would completely disown them. I have Asian friends who did whatever they wanted and after a single act of disobedience, they were no longer on speaking terms with their parents. I'm not saying conditional love is the norm for all Chinese parents, but I've seen the consequences of disobeying in real life and it is harsh.

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
I like my freshman a lot, but there is a big cultural difference. Many of my students have never seen a foreigner before. So they clap as the foreign teacher comes into class for the first time. In my case, I receive the applause. Just for being Caucasian.

They will often lift their cell phones to snap a picture of me. They try to be subtle but it is very obvious to me, but I roll with the punches, so to speak. It is like I am a mini celebrity to them. Of course, this could be anyone! They are amazed to see a western person!

But, I have toyed with the idea of taking my camera, and walking up to some of my students and doing the same thing. Just to prove a point that in the west, culturally speaking, we would not do the same. Unless I had a death wish, I would never take a pic of any university professor so obviously. Even random people in the street..I would never walk up to them, point my camera/phone at them and snap a photo.

My camera gag would be for kicks more than anything.

Even when I am in the country side, I am amazed at the average random stranger who will point cameras/cell cameras at me to snap a pic...

It is China, welcome to it. Of course in Beijing/Shanghai/other big cities, being a foreigner is not a huge deal.

I don't mean to make this post as a complaint, but an observation.

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aka Kat
Knowflake

Posts: 150
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2009

posted October 17, 2009 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aka Kat     Edit/Delete Message
From my own experience of teaching, kids are perceptive. If you have selfish motives and are primarily concerned about students "getting" what YOU want them to get instead of meeting their own needs, you will get attitudes. It's not them, it's you. A pain that some of them are- they let you know if you are not coming from a loving, positive, accepting, position or not.

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carl
Knowflake

Posts: 245
From: China
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 17, 2009 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carl     Edit/Delete Message
Hey, I would just love to trade stories all class, and have a conversation with my students. As western teachers, in most universities, we are mostly here so the students can actually practice their oral English. One teacher said to me "We need you (as in, China NEEDS English teachers)" and also "You could simply just come to class and talk about your daily life and that would be fine!"

Language learning in China, in general, is very flawed. Most students learn to read and write ONLY and do not have oral classes before university. So I understand, many of them are just getting used to talking to a western person. They have no oral teachers in middle/high school so they simply read and write. Heck, I can learn many languages if I just learn to read and write it!! But talking is another story.

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