posted October 18, 2009 03:50 PM         

I don't believe pluto/venus in opposite square each other as an relationships starter.

I hope I have wrong. Maybe someone else have other experience than me.

posted October 18, 2009 04:37 PM         

The really WEIRD coincidence why I am asking about this: My last relationship (hurtful, draining, I was the one who left, but it took a loong time for me to recover) - well this last relationship lasted 2 years. While I was with that man, HE had tr. Pluto squaring his natal Venus - and I had tr. Saturn cj. my Venus.

Now, think about this one: We broke-up about 1.5 years ago. I came to know that he has a new girlfriend now, seems to be serious. I happened to learn about her birthdate (not her birthtime). AND: They started their relationship while SHE was(is) under Tr. Pluto squaring HER Venus - and tr. Saturn is conjunct HIS Venus now!!!

So, actually: My ex-bf is having a new relationship now - with another woman - and they seem to have "changed" the roles, compared to our relationship ...

Isn't that weird? If not: spooky?

posted October 20, 2009 01:01 AM         

quote:

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I was just way too obsessed with and had to break off because he drove me insane.

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With my ex who went through this Pluto-Venus-square wile we were a couple it seems to have been the same. In my impression, he WANTED (me?) so much and, somehow he fought a battle inside of himself - this was plain to see & feel for me. But: I couldn't "help" him or offer any relief, obviously. Too bad. No matter how hard I tried to prove my love to him, to be understanding, generous and all ... it just NEVER SEEMED ENOUGH. In retrospect the impression gets even stronger: He just couldn't be satisfied - with nothing.

Now, looking back and reading your lines, I see and understand: It must have been some kind of horror for himself too - I even feel some kind of empathy for him now, maybe even: sympathy. But during that time ... he almost drove me nuts and drained me with his insatiable need for ... WHAT??? Reassurance? It really was some DRAMA, running out of proportion, beyond reason. Maybe ... I wasn't aware how much he suffered from that LOSS OF CONTROL himself ... But even if I would have had this perspective: I just have no idea, what in the world I could have done, to soothe his (love-)nerves while tr. Pluto was squaring his Venus.... (Natally, he has Venus in his 1st house - squaring his Jupiter - so his need to be loved as a person, his need for "appraisal" naturally is inflated by his natal Venus-Jupiter-square ... It just was out of any reasonable proportion during that time - and, on the surface, he acted in extremely egocentric, selfish ways then, in my eyes.)

posted October 20, 2009 10:17 AM         

That was right word for me also. Transit pluto opposite my venus exactly in that time. Now it's end. Pluto now exactly opposite my NN and I feel my life changes in onother way. In two months I also have it exactly opposite my mars I really know must prepered me to take it cool and relax so I dont do things I regret.

posted October 20, 2009 02:54 PM         

On the other hand: I already treated him with kid gloves anyway - from my point of view. Tried to reassure him in many ways ... Still, I am not very "clingy", I grant the other his "freedom", don't need to call each and every day and so on ... and this might have provoked some doubts in him: Whether I am serious at all.

MAY I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION TO YOU GUYS? Was there anything that your partner could have done, at that time (while Tr. Pluto was attacking your Venus), in order to soothe your nerves, to calm you down, to reassure you? Did you openly ask for more love-proofs or anything? Did your partners refuse to give them? Did they KNOW about your emotional torture? Was there any chance that your partners could do something about that?

Because, from the partner's view (my view, in this case)... all attempts to create more trust & stability seemed to be in vain. NOTHING worked. He (we) drowned in an unhealthy push-pull-dnyamics ... The more he "wanted" me, the more he pushed me away, by being rude, mean, even telling me lies like: "Meanwhile I've dated other women, just to let you know." I was able to ignore these things in 85% of the case ... I always sensed, that he was trying to "protect" himself from our love in a way ... but a lot of this DID hurt me. Someday it was just too much to bear. I got the feeling that anything I did and said was perceived wrongly - and used against me.

I gave up in total frustration - and left that guy. (To tell the whole story: I was just about to move from my town to his country, the move was scheduled already - and six weeks before that date he "pushed me away" again - this time in a very rude and aggressive telephone call... and I was devasted - and got the impression: "This man will never 'love' you, he'll always fight with you - you better not move there..." I mean: Everything was fixed, the whole move _ I was about to leave my country for him! But once more ... He chose the aggressive way and "defended" himself, because there had been some silly misunderstandings 'cause he wasn't able to reach me via phone the weekend before. Actually, he might have been just jealous. But this time it was just too (!) rude. He called me a "***** " and more of that kind. It was the point where I had to get out. He seemed like a psychopath to me, then ... This was the end of our relationship, more or less.)

AGAIN: Is there ANYTHING a loving partner could do, to help someone under Puto-square-Venus to trust in that relationship????

posted October 20, 2009 05:55 PM         

I can offer some insights into plutonian involvements with people. It's been my experience that these relationships or contacts are extremely difficult to maintain because of the intensity and because venus and pluto ideally don't belong together. Ihe issues they represent are not compatable.
One expereince I had was not a real world expereince,but an internet connection. A particular person and I got very attached through writing a series of letters many years ago.It was all very overwhelming and mysterious. For the most part it was a really positive expereince. We were supportive and good to one another and there was a very sweet rapport. Then I lost it a bit and wanted something to happen that simply couldn't. When I realized that things were neevr going to be as I wanted them to be I tried to move on. But she didn't want me to. In fact she stayed in my life for many years.
In retrospect it was wrong of me to have contacted her at all. To write a perefct stranger in the way I did was wrong and had to provoke the reaction that it did. Then when things got heated it brought out a level of dysfunction in me that I had no idea existed. I have never acted that way before or since in my life. I felt as if I was going out of my mind. I was so obsessed with this person that I had lost contact with reality. It is so sad and shocking to look back on it now. I've been obsessed with people before ,but always felt I was still in control ,but this time I was almost out of it. Honestly. Over time though I did regain my composure and tried to make sense of it all. But to this day it all seems so unreal and impossible. If I hadn't lived this I would never believe this story from someone esle.
Anyway, I feel bad in a way about contacting her. It was wrong and I had no right to enter her life with just a vague intuition about something. But at least I was sincere. At the time I really believed that something very special was there. But when you just show up in someones life and say I think we have a metaphysical connection, what are they supposed to do? Say, "Gee, great,come on over."? What did I expect really. So I was wrong there.

Her fault came much later. Instead of letting this go she chose to continue. And later when i realized that things were hopeless and wanted to move on she refused to let me. So she was wrong there.

I don't know what her level of obsession was ,but mine was very unhealty and strong. I have sympathy for people that have this issue because I have the same problem.But there has to be a time when two people have to just admit that they are in an impossible situation. That's my conclusion about it. This was kind of doomed from the start and that's my fault. If I had used common sense instead of indulging a fantasy we both would not have suffered. But what can I do about that now?
My only issue with her is that she wants to stay in an endless kind of limbo with this. She seems to be happy being in my life and not being in my life. But it's driving me insane. I have virtually begged her to stop.
You come to a point where after ten years you either have to trust someone and take a chance on reaching out to them or move on.
If she doesn't trust me that's fine. It's actually appropriate in some ways,but the price for not trusting me has to be you move on. she doesn' want to do either and it's hurting me.
If the tables were reversed I'm not sure I'd trust someone that acted the way I did many years ago. Honestly. I'm not sure I could. So if she doesn' trust me I have no argument.
But when you feel that way about people it is only fair to say goodbye.She won't do either. This is her obsesssion,which had taken a different form than mine. But it seems to be just as intense and much more enduring.
I can pretty much handle things now. But I would so like things to just get resolved. I'm afraid they never will be though.
I get very angry at this person from time to time,but I do like them. It's just the pressure of this is too much for me sometimes.

I like to think of myself as a plutonian person,but I'm really not. I'm really a neptune person. And fantyasy is great. We all need it to some extent. But I feel I've had too much fantasy in my life and I need to get down to reality here. We both know that this is wrong to continue. I need to start lving in the real world and find real world connections to people. I have leaned on my ability to indulge in fantasy too much. It's time for me to get back into life and try to create some kind of substantial expereince of it. I'm tired of deluding myself. I need reality, not fantasy and obsession and dreams. This connection is really pluto/neptune i think more thanpure pluto.
But the point is I can;t live this way any longer. I need to disengage from this. If she wants to reach out to me for real, great. Please do. I think we'd have a lot of fun anf they'd be endless things to talk about and kind of an I can't believe it quality that would be fantastic. But if not let's start being honest and real with each other. Let's start being good to each other. No more games and fantasy and obsession. We both need to mature in certain ways. We both come from very dysfunctional backfrounds i think and we both need to be sensitive and kind to each other. But also we need to do the right thing.
This whole thing has me feeling kind of numb right now. She has all the power , I only ask her to use it wisely and be fair. That's all. I'm only a human being. Not some guide or guru. My path has been filled with more mistakes and confusion that anything else. I just feel that I am ata crossraods in my life and if I dont make an effort to deal with reality and make an honest effort,my life will pass me by. I know she doesn;t want that to happen to me. To stay as I am now would be to stay in a place where there is no change or growth. No gain or loss. It's not a place anyone should be. She needs to help me by reaching out or letting go. Either way I'll respect her for it. But to stay where we are is hurtful to both of us. I wish I could convince her of that. It's obvious that it's hurting me,but I believe it's also effecting her in negative ways.The only answer is always to do what's right. It's very ,very hard,but it's the only thing in the end. I wish I understood what her perspective was. I'm sure I could be more forgiving. I try to be ,but the stress of this is often simply too much.

posted October 20, 2009 06:55 PM         

Now it's just a vacuum.Some dream that never crystalizes or fades. That's just always there. This silent,sad,cell that she and I live in. That diminishes both of us and in spite of our strange proximity always seems to move us further and further away from each other.

posted October 20, 2009 08:17 PM         

Yesterday's winter, I have a question. Do you by any chance have a hard aspect between venus or the moon in neptune in your chart? And in your synastry with this person what are the pluto aspects?

posted October 20, 2009 09:15 PM         

Yesterday. You write and describe it so good an did it so clear.

That's was the right feeling for me and that that man. I loved him, but something take place deeply inside me.... I had 2 side there I sometimes want to moved togheter with him and in another time I know I never want. Strong feelings. I think he not was the right man for me even if my love was so strong.

He also get off from me and we have problem to talk to each other in periods. I think it could be the only one thing to resolve a pluto venus square opposite transit. Talk to each other and listening. I cant believe everyone in relationship in transit like this divorced.

posted October 20, 2009 11:18 PM         

quote:

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MAY I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION TO YOU GUYS? Was there anything that your partner could have done, at that time (while Tr. Pluto was attacking your Venus), in order to soothe your nerves, to calm you down, to reassure you? Did you openly ask for more love-proofs or anything? Did your partners refuse to give them? Did they KNOW about your emotional torture? Was there any chance that your partners could do something about that?

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Well, making the relationship official, for one. Like, after a month of seeing him I wanted to be in a relationship and he as like "Well, I like to party..." but he agreed to be monogamous with me. I am sure that he really liked me a lot, but his aspergers made him flakey. Also, since he had aspergers, he could never tell when I was upset around him so I thought he was just being an a*hole (he didn't find out he had aspergers until after we stopped seeing each other). Apparently though he was planning on being official with me but then I started seeing someone else instead. Idk, he was just too flakey for me under this transit. I needed constant reassurance and he just didn't give it to me. It also didn't help that this transit also made me afraid to reveal what I was feeling in plain terms because I was afraid of scaring him off. I'm already reserved with affection and feelings (Venus square Saturn) so this just made it worse. It was just torture.

posted October 21, 2009 08:31 PM         

People come in and out of our lives for various reasons and we have to accept the transcience of it all. Some we love, some we are unhappy with. But the flow of our lives keeps moving.

I don't really have any answers. I just have feelings. Sometimes I feel such profound love and peace it's indescribable. other times I feel so sad and defeated it's unbearable. We are all in the midst of some giant process . A very beautiful one I think.
So I am grateful to the fellow travelers on my path . My plutonian friend has certainly shared some pretty magical moments with me. I am honored and happy to have shared them.
But I can't expect things to last or stay the same. They are not supposed to.Whatever we shared is preserved in some macrocosmic memory. Nothing is lost.It's all preserved and rememebered. Whatever is to come I will meet with acceptance and gratitude and peace. That is the gift of Neptune. The gift of letting go.Surrendering with faith to the soft certainties of life!!!!
I'm sorry to go off topic I guess I'm in a very dreamy mood today!