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Author Topic:   bitterness, jaded...etc.
stopandstare
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Posts: 155
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Registered: May 2009

posted October 28, 2009 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stopandstare     Edit/Delete Message
i was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts about what in a natal chart may cause one to become extremely bitter and jaded after a soured relationship or not at all. the relationship can be between a man and woman, a friendship, a job even (say losing your job after being there for 20 years).

when we're little kids, we tend to be open and hopeful because we haven't been smacked in the face with reality. what would make one as an adult succumb to these smacks in reality and on the flip side what wouldn't?

for myself, i still believe in what i believed in when i was a little kid. of course i've had bad things happen to me and disappointments, but i'm not bitter or jaded about love and life. i'm really good at detaching and not carrying pain. if one bad thing happens and then another bad thing happens that seems similar, i see it as two completely separate things and not a trend. when the next situation occurs, i behave as if i have never been hurt before. i'm not any more fearful or courageous because of what happened the last time. i'm the exact same way as i was before. maybe i'm just good at regeneration. i have sun in cancer, moon in gemini, venus in gemini, mars in taurus.

your thoughts?

thank you.

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iQ
Knowflake

Posts: 668
From: Chennai, India
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2009 03:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message
Its the Moon and Venus in Gemini, helped by Mars in Taurus.

Venus in Gemini sees beauty in variety and likes to sample a little bit of the wide range of human experience. Gemini Moon prevents emotional grudges from taking root, and hence prevents bitterness.
Mars in Taurus lacks ambition in ego trips, mind games and aggressive control. Good food
(especially with Cancer Sun) and great sex, thats all it needs.

So you can see that the combo is very effective in preventing bitterness.

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teasel
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Posts: 240
From: Ohio
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2009 05:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
*deleting again. sorry.

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DiandraReborn25
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Posts: 457
From: Portugal
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2009 07:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DiandraReborn25     Edit/Delete Message
i know a person who became like that,after the relationship has ended ( it was married and the woman left).
since then cannot see others happy and tries to ruin it,with comments and judgements.

i guess that this person wasnt like that before,but to be like that.i strongly think that the person always had to be selfish within,and that in order to become who he or she became.... a lot of inner change has to be done.

the person not only becomes bitter but also tends to see themself as a victim in any situation,and with any person involved with him or her.

the change has to come from the person,and needs to want to be a better person.pride is often involved too i guess?

this person i talked about has:

stellium of mars/plut/moon cj in 10th libra with merc/uranus there too

this is all in hard aspect with kiron the wounded healer placed in 4th

NN is cj asc in the 12th and uranus is in the 12th too

Venus is virgo squared by NN and Neptune-i guess this can make the person have lot of deceptions in relationship?cause saturn is also in the 7TH and sqyares moon/uranus/kiron and merc.

Makes me wonder...how much is it this behaviour our own responsability?and therephore...we are the only ones who can if we want.to change ourselves?

or if,when we are born with such difficult chart,how much power do we have to work with these influences,and become a better person?

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iQ
Knowflake

Posts: 668
From: Chennai, India
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2009 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message
Good one Diandra!

Also Teasel wrote a great post, wonder why you deleted?

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DiandraReborn25
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Posts: 457
From: Portugal
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2009 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DiandraReborn25     Edit/Delete Message
thank you!that is what i feel really..

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teasel
Knowflake

Posts: 240
From: Ohio
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2009 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Also Teasel wrote a great post, wonder why you deleted?

Oh, thank you.

I have more than one browser window open, and didn't realize that I left this thread open in another one... I can edit it back in. I've been feeling very low lately, and felt whiny after I'd posted, so I deleted.

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stopandstare
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Posts: 155
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted October 29, 2009 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stopandstare     Edit/Delete Message
there are times when i get depressed and feel hopeless. if someone says something mean to me, i get hurt. if someone lies to me, i get enraged. but for some reason at the end of the day, i believe in me and i believe in my happy endings and the good of people. i don't make hard conclusions based on one or two or twenty bad experiences. every situation is different. one doesn't equal the other.

iq: i think you got it a bit right in that well the simple things make me happy and are good enough for me. even when i'm at my most desperate, if i go to the store and see ice cream is on sale, i'm suddenly on top of the world. or if a friend emails me and says something funny, i forget about what had made me sad. my mind tends to wander a lot and i'm very easily put back together again. but this is not to say that i forget bad things that happen. i remember them. but...i just don't let them carry over into the present. it's like it happened, it's done, it's over. next. i feel as if having mars in taurus gives me the stamina, strength, and patience to outlast any bad moment.

teasel: thank you for the quote and thank you for your post. i'm sorry those girls were mean to you in school.

i hope i'm not sounding like some cold emotion-less person by constantly saying i'm good at detachment, but when i say that i mean that i can separate me from the bad stuff. i don't let the bad stuff infect my personality. i am the positive one. i am the funny one. no one is going to make me become angry and bitter.

it helps for me to detach in that at the end of the day, i am confident in who i am as a person. i'm not talking about beauty or status or talent here. i know what my true character is and for some reason knowing that, it helps me to deflect bad things.

diandra: you are right we do have the power to change ourselves and to go against the grain. maybe it's the gemini planets in me, but i find myself very able, quite easily and quickly, adapt or remix myself to out last any situation. i do whatever it takes to do better for myself the next time.

as well, i don't think one has to be selfish or secretly angry already to become bitter after something bad happens. i know a few people who are the nicest people ever, but one big trauma changed their opinions around. i can understand if someone was married and the marriage broke up that they became negative afterwards. i don't hold it against people who do have anger or bitterness or negative attitudes if something bad happens to them. i just want for these people to be happy again and to find a way to free themselves of this bitterness. it makes me sad for those who are jaded or guarded because they've been hurt before. i've been hurt before too but for some reason...not guarded or scared at all. if you like me and i like you, it's on! no strings attached

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enchantress299
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Posts: 69
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posted October 29, 2009 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for enchantress299     Edit/Delete Message
I actually really like that quote Teasel. I have been feeling a little low lately too. Saturn going into my 11th has been unexpectedly hard on me.

I'm not going to say that I'm a bitter and jaded person overall. I am slightly more bitter and jaded when it comes to relationships. If anything, I'm actually overly optimistic when it comes to other areas of my life.

Astrologically speaking, I've got a retro Virgo Venus squaring Chiron in the 7th (as well as Jupiter and Uranus in the 1st). It's like walking around with a big gaping hole that you think everyone can see and will want to poke at once they get the chance. My Venus also trines Neptune which probably does not help. Oh yes, and my Venus sextiles Saturn to the degree.

I understand Diandra's take on the victim complex, and, as the years have gone by I've understood more about how I have played into things and sometimes I wasn't so much the victim as I was the one doing the pushing away of a person to avoid what I saw as an inevitable bad ending.

However, that being said, unfortunately, there ARE patterns for some people. I think it's great that you don't see patterns in things stopandstare, and you are able to let go of relationship issues more readily. However, there is a value to seeing patterns as well because sometimes those patterns that play out are things that we need to learn from AND let go of. Furthermore, I think relationship patterns can be worse for some people than they are for others.

Though I have sometimes played the victim, I truly have been victimized in the past. Luckily, now when I see someone trying to belittle me, attack me, or criticize me for no discernible reason I am able to see it for what it usually is: envy.

When I was younger I couldn't see it for what it was and so I just thought I was inherently unlikable or inherently an outsider. This caused me to believe that I had to work twice as hard as everyone else for the things that I had and for the integrity that I was able to keep... And so I did.

When you work really hard for something (or someone) and you see it taken away from you, there's really no worse feeling, especially when it seems to happen on a consistent basis. THAT to me is what causes a certain bitterness or jadedness. Some people don't have a concept of this because it seems like everything comes more easily. I've been on both sides of the coin, because though relationships have never been my forte, school, career, direction in life, etc have been. Those opportunities have always come to me really easily, partially through intelligence, partially through luck.

Going on the "when you work really hard for something" premise, I find that earth signs often tend to be the most bitter (followed by water signs) because we really do throw ourselves into our work and often don't get credit for what we do. The air and fire signs are all so creative and magical that everyone is busy being mesmerized by them instead. Obviously that is the generalization that I am drawing a conclusion on, but this is astrology, and unfortunately many things are generalities.

Overall though, I can definitely say that I am not near as jaded as I was when I was younger because I HAVE learned to let certain things go, and I have had certain learning experiences that have helped me see my own patterns.

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