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Author Topic:   Bang for Your Buck
jane
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posted December 25, 2009 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
The chart you see before you is two in one: transits and a horary chart. What a steal!

At the time of the chart, it was my second day working on a project that's being led by a douchebag (DB), someone I've worked with once before. He was ripping a colleague of mine apart, something I've learned he has a tendency to do.

I have a tendency to despise that in people, especially from people in power towards those subordinate. I was tempted to walk. I thought to myself, should I quit? I looked at my watch so I could do a horary later. (I didn't want to miss an opportunity for astro research. Must've been my Virgo Mars getting all fired up. )

DB wasn't pleased to see me looking at my watch and said so. I spoke my mind back to him. I didn't say anything that bad, but I said it with an honesty and force straight from the depths of hades. (I'll explain that later.) The last time we worked together a couple of years ago, I disliked him but was more diplomatic and never expressed my disgust for his behavior so frankly. He looked shocked and didn't say anything back. He was broody and passively furious with me the rest of the night. He didn't fire me though, which leaves me to answer my question.

So looking at this as a horary chart, what do you see as the answer to the question: Should I quit this project?

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jane
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posted December 25, 2009 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
And as far as transits go, do you have any comments on the biggies? (All are 0º)

t. [NN cnj Mercury] square my n.Pluto.
The square between Mercury and my Pluto is exact to the minute! That's what I meant about me speaking from hades. I've noticed I strongly feel transits to my Pluto. Maybe that's b/c Pluto is personalized for me, since it's my chart ruler.
t.MC cnj my n.SN
t. [Moon cnj Uranus] trine my n.Uranus and quincunx my n.Moon.
Natally I have an exact Moon-Uranus square. Among other things, I experience that square as an intense need to be emotionally honest.

I titled this "bang for your buck" because it's two charts in one, but also because that's the issue I'm dealing with. Should I accept that with work (the buck) comes some deplorable, hostile conditions (the bang) to deal with?

I wonder if I'm being an idealistic hot head by demanding work conditions where people are always treated with respect. Maybe I should grin and bear the absence of respect, especially since this job will only last a few months.

But I don't want to! I want to have no part in this kind of immature, pathetic cr@p. And I sure as hell don't want to pretend I'm ok with this or that I find DB worthy of my respect. Since it's next to impossible to work under someone you don't respect, I should just walk, right?

If I do, I think I'll be burning my bridges with him and possibly building an enemy, something I've never deliberately done in the professional world before.

We go back to work Monday. I want to make up my mind by then.

Interested in any opinions - horary, transits, or non-astrological.

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MysticMelody
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posted December 26, 2009 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message
Jane Pray on it. You are in an excellent position. If you don't really mind if you quit, you are in excellent position to speak your mind (possibly more gently but still firmly) and teach/deliver to DB some message from the Universe that will help him think twice next time. Meditate/pray to speak while inspired with the highest wisdom/knowledge and see what good you do. Usually people can't speak up out of fear of losing the much needed job/project. You did/are going to make a big difference here, even if it is just a ripple in DB's subconscious. ♥

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks, MM. *hugs*

quote:
Meditate/pray to speak while inspired with the highest wisdom/knowledge and see what good you do

What if I end up speaking to him in tongues!

quote:
Usually people can't speak up out of fear of losing the much needed job/project.

People afterward thanked me for speaking up to him. And since then I've spoken with a friend who worked with him in the past who also thanked me. It's not just the fear of losing work that keeps people quiet - his general persona is intimidating. But I seem to be lacking the intimidated gene. That's what troubles me though - maybe I'm being too rash? If everyone else is worried about giving it to him straight, maybe I should be too? You're right, I can lose this job and still eat, but I do worry about him badmouthing me to other people in our field. So practically, I feel uneasy about the professional consequences. But I also worry if I'm not looking at this clearly. Since my n.Pluto is being squared by t.NN and Mercury, is my own thinking distorted? Instead of leaving, is it better to stick around and just talk back to him when he's being a creep? That's what I wonder, I'm not insisting you answer.

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Oh Janey's in trouble!

Super Cough-Drop to the rescue! lol


Ok seriously, though...

It depends on how important it is to you - for personal or financial reasons.
I don't think I'd quit the project. I think this would be just the kind of person I would do my best to sabotage though.

My Mars in Cap is pretty patient with these things.. If I wanted to get rid of someone, I would take my time & sabotage their reputation.
From my perspective - why should someone who behaves this way sit on his high salary and treat people like dirt, whilst I quit?

But I can completely understand if you don't have the moral disposition or patience to bother..
I think a majority of people wouldn't bother and perhaps the healthiest advice is for you to leave well enough alone.

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
Aw, I'm picturing the wrapper tied around your cough drop self like a cape.

Teach this Saggy about the world of sabotage. Sounds exotic. Is that French?

Truth is, my Sag beats my Sco and Neptune influence when it comes to preferred methods of combat. I'm cool with subtly fixing things (or trying to fix things), but subtly destroying things (even creeps) feels foreign to me. The lifestyle would definitely give me an ulcer. Must be my Mars-Jupiter conjunction. The worst I could fight underhandedly is by throwing some banana peels in his path.

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Unmoved
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posted December 26, 2009 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Hey jane

When did this "telling it like it is" thing happen? Don't forget that we are in the midst of Mars Rx, and it does sound like all that went down has Mars' firey hands all over it. I wouldn't quit now, unless this is a long standing grievance you have, in which case, maybe Mars is urging you to quit. I would wait until Mars Rx is good and done, and then after the shadow period, in May, only then can you quit with a clear conscience.

Also, Merury Rx is coming along, is going to go Rx soon, so maybe the effects of which are already taking place. Either way, this is NOT a time to make any big moves like burning bridges.

I say this, but I have been burning bridges left, right and center, so.... Oh well.

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 02:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
So I've been wracking my brain for diabolical schemes, and I think I've come up with something. In our particular situation, there's no way I could stay and sabotage him w/o also harming my colleagues and myself. What would harm him is me leaving. He's already notorious for his poor interpersonal skills, so me leaving would show that his behavior negatively affects his work since he loses people due to it. I don't need to sabotage him, because he's done it to himself! And I have a reputation as someone good to work with, so people won't think that I've out of nowhere gone insane. They'll know I had a reason to leave.

I suppose the transiting squares to my n.Pluto show how asserting my will is an unpleasant and challenging experience here. And the transiting trines to my n.Uranus show how much I'm being drawn to being independent and free, living by my own values.

And from the horary pov, the Moon is forming an applying cnj with Uranus in the 10th house, which looks like a sign to quit to me. It being in Pisces fits too, since it matches why I'm leaving.

Yeah, I'll quit.

edit: But I'm still interested if anyone has reasons for advising otherwise.

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 02:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
Unmoved, I didn't see your post before my last one.

The project is short, only 3 months. So it would be over before the shadow period ends.

It's funny that you said I shouldn't quit now unless it's a long standing grievance. In fact, it is. Very old. My whole life! With him specifically though, I worked with him a couple of years ago. I really wanted the job, so I tolerated his behavior. I kept my real thoughts to myself which is that I have no respect for people who abuse others. I think work can be done just as well in a healthy environment as a tortured one. I don't want to contribute to the type of environment DB creates by condoning it with my presence.

I appreciate the astro info. The retrograde info makes sense, since this is the first time I'll be letting someone know that I'm quitting out of protest. In the past I wouldn't be so honest, even though I wanted to be. T.Mars is in my 10th house, a couple degrees away from my Moon and is moving towards my MC.

edit: What are these bridges you've been burning? Please share, if you so desire.

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
So I've been wracking my brain for diabolical schemes, and I think I've come up with something. In our particular situation, there's no way I could stay and sabotage him w/o also harming my colleagues and myself. What would harm him is me leaving. He's already notorious for his poor interpersonal skills, so me leaving would show that his behavior negatively affects his work since he loses people due to it. I don't need to sabotage him, because he's done it to himself! And I have a reputation as someone good to work with, so people won't think that I've out of nowhere gone insane. They'll know I had a reason to leave.


JANE! And you asked me what it means?!

That really sounds great. My Mars/Neptune is very impressed. And don't you ever say your Sag influence beats the Scorpio out of you

Yes, if quitting will make him look bad and expose him further - then by all means..

I really think this is a two flies in one swat situation.. is that even a saying? (1 - you won't have to work with him and 2 - it will adversely affect his reputation)

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 02:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
My Mars/Neptune is very impressed.

Thank you. My Sun/Neptune tried really hard.

quote:
(1 - you won't have to work with him and 2 - it will adversely affect his reputation)

I'm so happy!

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 02:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
lol, I looked up the Sabian for the ASC. So fitting!:

quote:
THROUGH BANKRUPTCY, SOCIETY GIVES TO AN OVERBURDENED INDIVIDUAL THE OPPORTUNITY TO BEGIN AGAIN.

KEYNOTE: A release from unbearable pressures, freeing one for new tasks.

...Here we have another kind of "leaving behind," a LIBERATION FROM THE PAST.


The NN-Mercury conjunction:

quote:
BY ACCEPTING DEFEAT GRACEFULLY, A GENERAL REVEALS NOBILITY OF CHARACTER.

KEYNOTE: The realization that one may grow through defeat as well as, and perhaps more than, through success.

While the preceding symbol referred to the drive toward success in culturally organized collective endeavors, this one presents us with the possibility of turning apparent external defeat into an inner spiritual achievement. We have recently seen how totally vanquished nations (Germany and Japan) have leaped forward and achieved great economic success. Much depends on the quality of the will and the inner integrity of the person.

At this second stage we find what seems to be a paradox, but the spiritual life is always paradoxical. The great sinner can become the most renowned saint, and a medieval Pope a criminal. What matters most always is INNER STRENGTH.


The Moon-Uranus cnj:

quote:
A "MATERIALIZING" MEDIUM GIVING A SEANCE.

KEYNOTE: The ability to give of one's own vital energy to substantiate one's conscious ideals or unconscious desires.

The person who believes he or she has a mission or mandate, or any special gift that can be of value to his community, must substantiate this belief. He has to produce results. Sometimes this involves difficulties and special conditions or circumstances; it always demands to some extent the gift of some power of value which is deeply one's own.

...The display of psychic power that the symbol depicts can be interpreted positively or negatively according to the motives that induced the "medium" to give the seance. In its most constructive aspect it suggests the Keyword: SUBSTANTIATION. The shadowy aspect of the process is "deception."


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Coffee
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posted December 26, 2009 04:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
If by project, you mean work, you need to look at houses 1 (self) and 5 (end of - 12th from - work - 6th)
The job (Pluto rules 6th) seems fun and a good earner (Pluto conjunct Sun and Venus)
Although the T-square from Saturn in Libra to Uranus/Moon in Pisces is still wide, more consideration is needed. A run in with a boss and/or team will cause problems in the process. Saying that, Mercury (1) and Venus (5) are semi-sextile apart.
While you may get a few problems as stated, should you leave the project, I think the event will go well.

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StarrofVenusGirl
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posted December 26, 2009 05:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message
Very, very new at horary, but isn't the 27 degrees ASC a "late" ascendant, meaning the matter has already concluded, i.e. in your heart you knew the answer to your question before you even asked it?

Without even taking the chart into consideration, it sounds to me like you have pretty much made up your mind to quit the project.

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 06:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
lol Jane - I'm sure you'll savor this

Hey - you know what? Go along to the next meeting and the first rude thing he says -- stand up throw your papers on the desk and yell "I QUIT!!!" and walk out.
LOL

jk

But I'd love to be a little fly on the wall, if you did.

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DiandraReborn25
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posted December 26, 2009 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DiandraReborn25     Edit/Delete Message
Jane

hi girl how are you?

i dont know how to read horary but i do know that the answer you need it is in what your intuition says.

just listen to it and you will know what to do best.

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
Coffee -

Ah, the 5th house for end of a job. Clever! I didn't know which house to use. Thanks for the analysis.

quote:
The job (Pluto rules 6th) seems fun and a good earner (Pluto conjunct Sun and Venus)

That's just it. The job could potentially be a rewarding, satisfying experience for everyone involved, but he sucks all the pleasure out of it.

The way something is done matters greatly to me. I don't want to collaborate with people (professionally or personally) who, because of their own issues, create miserable experiences. Life doesn't have to be like that, and I no longer have the patience to deal with people who can't see that. Leaving will cost me, but I'd rather deal with that cost than the cost of staying.

This experience has shown me how I've changed from the person I was 2 years ago when I first worked with him. It's not enough for me to have ideals but bite my tongue out of other concerns. I want to do all I can to create a professional life that matches my ideals.

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
Starr -
quote:
isn't the 27 degrees ASC a "late" ascendant, meaning the matter has already concluded, i.e. in your heart you knew the answer to your question before you even asked it?

Interesting observation! Since the horary is the same moment as the experience, that means even as it was happening, I had already made my decision. I certainly wanted to leave, but I didn't know if that was the "best" choice (most reasonable). That must mean that my instincts made the decision for me. I couldn't be who I am & want to be (chart ruler cnj NN) and still choose to stay.

It makes sense that the chart ruler (me, in horary) was cnj the NN, while the MC was cnj my n.SN. The MC-SN cnj shows that the job doesn't contribute to my future, but brought up an issue I needed to deal with. Meanwhile, the ASC ruler-NN cnj shows that the decision to leave does contribute to my future.

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jane
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posted December 26, 2009 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
vapor -

What would be funny is if he often appears to be about to go off but then restrains himself, so I have to constantly cut myself off when saying "I quit!"

"I!!!....like your shirt."

I hope that after I leave, he'll use more self-control with everyone else during the rest of the job. He won't want to lose anyone else & will probably want to prove that he's not that bad to work with. I hope that's what happens, because I feel bad leaving everyone else to deal with his tirades.

Diandra You're right.

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StarrofVenusGirl
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posted December 26, 2009 08:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message
Good deal, Jane. You sound much happier about the situation already.

As far as my little horary observation, well...clearly I have learned something in my time here. Yay! LOL.

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message

lol @ "i like your shirt!"

hehe

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message

_____________________________________________

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jane
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posted December 28, 2009 03:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message

I'm passionate about fashion.

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jane
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posted December 28, 2009 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
What a twist!

DB arranged to meet me for lunch today. At first, I thought he wanted some alone time before work to yell at me for talking back to him last week. Nope, he wanted to clear the air.

I was determined to quit and never work with him again in the future. So I felt like I didn't have much to lose by freely expressing why I would be leaving. Also, I wasn't about to let the "I quit" speech I'd been rehearsing in my head all weekend go to waste.

Not only did he listen and respond, he seemed to enjoy my candor and he spoke openly too. The more I expressed my skepticism about him changing, the more he treated it like a challenge he knows he can meet. At the end, I said I'd stay but would walk if he demeans anyone again, even if it's on the last day. He said that I won't be leaving because he won't be treating anyone like that.

Is this a Sco Asc thing? It seems that almost every time I have a confrontation with someone, we soon after have a heart-to-heart.

I don't even know what to believe. He seemed sincere, but he was far more upbeat and charming than is the norm for him. We even laughed a lot together! Maybe this is what he's like one-on-one? I wish I had his chart to analyze.

I can't figure out if I've been manipulated into staying, or if he genuinely sees a problem in himself and intends to fix it. And even if it is the latter, I'm not the ethics police. I don't want to babysit him. I really wanted to just wash my hands of all this, but I let him suck me back in. He was fine at work afterwards, but I will leave if he reverts to his old ways. So the possibility of me investing time here for nothing frustrates me.

I got a little agitated when I made a transit chart for our meeting and saw that the Moon was exactly cnj the Asc at 26º Taurus. Algol can't be a good sign!

My n.Mercury is at 26º Scorpio. Seems appropriate that my Mercury would be on the DSC during a conversation someone else initiated.

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jane
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posted December 28, 2009 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
For what it's worth, this is the chart for when our convo began.

Perhaps it's the Neptune-Jupiter square to the ASC-Moon that has me unsure of how to interpret him.

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