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Author
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Topic: Meaning of Orbs
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comica23
Knowflake Posts: 702
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 27, 2009 11:55 AM
 
It's obvious that the tighter an aspect is, the stronger its effect (stronger synchronicity). But do orb limits actually has any logical (physical) explanation behind?I can't remember where, but someone here in LL mentioned something about 3 degrees maximum orb has to do with Moon phases (or something like that?). Does anyone know about this?
Also, it was also mentioned by someone (iQ or DD??) that the orbs that exceeds 7ºdegrees would completely lose effect. Anyone knows the logical explanation behind this?
If this is actually valid, then any conjunction less than 3º degrees would be "valid effects", while from 3º~7ºdegres would be "valid psychological effects"?
(sorry for being a bit confusing >_< please continue to read further lol)
For example, if in a natal chart, we have A conjunct B in less than 3º degrees, then they are really affected by each other, but if the conjunction is wider, then they are only compatible with each other and not really affecting each other (their compatibility/synchronicity might be what makes us think that they are affecting each other, but they aren't really affecting each other)? What do you guys think? IP: Logged |
Coffee
Knowflake Posts: 896
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 27, 2009 12:05 PM
15 degrees either side for the orb...spans 30 degrees, which is the exact amount of degress in a sign and house.
The logical behind is stated above. Consistency.Should planet A be 17 degrees away from planet B, yet in the same sign, the effect would still be there, but less than a conjunction - a semi-sextile. If you use low orbs, not sure what the out of aspect/in same sign effect would have. Not quite sure what you mean by physical effect. IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 2499
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 27, 2009 12:47 PM
Everyone has their own take on orbs.Mine I have derived from the observation of fullmoon / new moon. The time it is considered "full" translates to 3 degrees aproaching and 3 degrees separating. Personally I don`t buy wider orbs than that.
But if it works for others, I am okay with it. I just would always feel like I am grasping and allowing wishful thinking to come up, if I used wider orbs.
Even though I think that the background of the sign will play a general role, too; meaning a Venus in Aries will have an intuitive understanding of a Moon in Leo, no matter what degrees the orb.
I have realized that I can only follow my own logic, or I would constantly doubt the results of the astrological analysis. That doesn`t mean that others can`t succeed with other theories and concepts, I just could not do it with their theory, if it left the shadow of a doubt inside of me. That is all.
"For example, if in a natal chart, we have A conjunct B in less than 3º degrees, then they are really affected by each other, but if the conjunction is wider, then they are only compatible with each other and not really affecting each other"
I agree with that. I think one thing is the basic compatibility (the sign-background) and when the orbs get really tight than you can`t help but react to each other. IP: Logged |
comica23
Knowflake Posts: 702
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 27, 2009 01:23 PM
DD, so it was you who mentioned the full Moon/new Moon theory. X3And I also agree with you, that planets in the same/compatible signs will always have some degree of affinity between them regardless the degrees.
Coffee, what I was trying to explain was that when two planets are within 3º degrees conjunction, they would actually affect each other "physically", while if the degrees are wider, then they wouldn't really affect each other thought they would still be in tune/synchronized with each other.
(sorry for not explaining this well >_< )
IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 2499
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 27, 2009 01:34 PM
Yes, it was me. Can`t deny it.  IP: Logged |
Polo C
Knowflake Posts: 164
From:
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted December 28, 2009 02:16 AM
Boy! Does all of this jive well with actual experience or does it just help to make your analysis process simpler? Above 3 degrees, not really any effect... I don't know about that. Can you provide some evidence to back up this theory?IP: Logged |
pire
Knowflake Posts: 1107
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 28, 2009 08:57 AM
declinations should be counted to, right?
IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 2499
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 28, 2009 03:57 PM
Everyone can deliver any kind of "evidence" for their experience, and noone can prove it, as any experience is a very subjective thing.IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 251
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 28, 2009 05:01 PM
I am willing to allow greater orbs for conjunctions than for other aspects. In a conjunction, the energy is (usually) in the same element and the same sign, so there is more of a feeling of merging. Of course, if the conjunction is happening in different sign, then it doesn't apply. For other aspects between 2 planets like square, trine, opposition, sextile, quincunx etc, I , I stay within the 1 to 4 orb in my interpretation. It works for me. IP: Logged |
Polo C
Knowflake Posts: 164
From:
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted December 28, 2009 06:20 PM
So are you suggesting that a Venus / Mars conj.of 8 degrees would not be felt in synastry?IP: Logged |
comica23
Knowflake Posts: 702
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 28, 2009 08:08 PM
Polo C, I guess that I can't really provide any solid proofs for this idea, as I'm still just trying to figure it out if there could be any physical explanation (like DD's theory about the Moon phases) that can prove that 3º degrees would be the limit that would make a difference between 2 objects' energies really affecting each other or just being synchronized/compatible. But well, personally, I do think the same as what DD said:
quote:
Personally I don`t buy wider orbs than that.
But if it works for others, I am okay with it. I just would always feel like I am grasping and allowing wishful thinking to come up, if I used wider orbs.
Even though I think that the background of the sign will play a general role, too; meaning a Venus in Aries will have an intuitive understanding of a Moon in Leo, no matter what degrees the orb.
It's not that wider orbs wouldn't work - in a psychological way, they do. But then it might not exactly work in the same way as tight orbs do. And the difference about how they both work (not just about the intensity) is what I want to figure out.But well, now putting the physical/psychological interpretation aside, let's talk about fate. Think about asteroids. Valentine, Karma, Amor.. as well as the soulmate pairs asteroids. If a couple is really fated, then wouldn't their fated aspects do seem fated? Valentine conjunct AC within 3º degrees sure seems more fated than Valentine in the same sign as AC, right? But this on the other side can be a bit subjective too. My take is that we should look at all the aspects before analyzing each aspects' effects. A couple can be very fated to be together, but not all their "fate aspects" would be tight anyways. So we could see which are the tighter aspects to have an idea of their main fate dynamics, while the wider ones can be taken as complementary details. For example, if a couple has, let's say, a good number of tight Valentine, Karma, AC (etc.) aspects, as well as a few number of tight soulmate pair asteroids aspects, yet they have Pluto conjunct Persephone at 4º~5º degrees, then this last aspect would still be taken in consideration, not in a sense of fate like other aspects are, but in a (psychological?) sense that this aspect would still have a role between the couple. IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 2499
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 29, 2009 06:09 AM
another reason for tight orbs for me is the fact of individuality or exclusiveness.It is pretty easy to have an Eros-Psyche conjunction of 6-8 degrees with a lot of people, while having a conjunction of 1 or 2 degree will be a pretty unique thing.
And I think synastry of soulmates / twinsouls will reflect that uniqueness.
Another thought is that it doesn`t work like a switch. At 3 degree it is still valid, at 3.5 it isn`t.
I agree with Jane, the strength / intensity weakens until it becomes so subtle, that you don`t really feel it anymore except for a basic compatibility.
"But this on the other side can be a bit subjective too. My take is that we should look at all the aspects before analyzing each aspects' effects. A couple can be very fated to be together, but not all their "fate aspects" would be tight anyways. So we could see which are the tighter aspects to have an idea of their main fate dynamics, while the wider ones can be taken as complementary details. For example, if a couple has, let's say, a good number of tight Valentine, Karma, AC (etc.) aspects, as well as a few number of tight soulmate pair asteroids aspects, yet they have Pluto conjunct Persephone at 4º~5º degrees, then this last aspect would still be taken in consideration, not in a sense of fate like other aspects are, but in a (psychological?) sense that this aspect would still have a role between the couple." YESS!  IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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