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Author Topic:   The Saturn/Pluto Cycle
Lonake
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posted March 10, 2010 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
It's OK, you can dive in here to take a break from all the synastries

The stars don't cause events. They just reflect. Right? Looking at history this cycle strongly relates to wars, but in general to big events on the world stage. The news of it all is engrossing. Take a look at some from the past, what do you think of it? It seems that Pluto is all about survival, Saturn puts that hard edge on it giving Pluto something (Saturn, the materials) to survive from

Saturn Capricorn opposed Pluto Cancer,
Rise of Nazism, Hitler started to make a big name for himself in Germany
Well we know the generation with Pluto in Cancer, our grandparents/great grandparents. they scrimped and saved every tiny bit, it was ALL about the family. Saturn was a little bit too at home in Capricorn at this time, what else would seemingly make it possible to send whole families off to death camps..?
The Great Depression from 1929 onwards, Saturn was in Sagittarius, so can't pin point that, but it was symbolic and stayed through most of it, of Saturn again entering Capricorn opposed Pluto in Cancer, a mutual reception.

Saturn Aries square Pluto Cancer
Saturn Taurus square Pluto Leo,
WWII
This was an interesting shift as WWII broke out in 1939 the same year that Pluto officially entered Leo, after peeking in and then retreating (Rx) in 1938. It entered Leo briefly while Saturn was in Aries, retrograded again to Cancer while Saturn moved on in Aries where it made a strong square in Spring 1939 THEN when Saturn ingressed to Taurus Pluto made a direct motion again in Leo, and the two matched in another strong square in the Summer of same year. They couldn't get enough of each other. We know the devastation of this war. Pluto in Leo, nuclear warfare? The devastation was dramatic. And it was all about saving home in one way or another (Pluto Cancer) from deviants who took too much power in their hands for selfish purposes, a Hitler who hated democracy and wanted a new world order (Saturn Aries). If you've studied charts at all you know the fixed signs hold on and don't let go, it seems warring parties tried to put everything they could into this one to make it the BIG WIN, Saturn Taurus square Pluto Leo.

Saturn Leo conjunct Pluto Leo,
About 2 yrs before this the United Nations formed and the Cold War began, as a result of a series of attacks in 1947, the yr of this conjunction, the UN thought it best to split Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state. This split is very telling of Saturn/Pluto and it's an issue that re-appears over and over on the world stage: Saturn/Pluto events are hard to forget, they have lasting effects.

Saturn Pisces opposed Pluto Virgo,
Vietnam War
Obvious opposed tensions in the air. You only have to meet one of these natives to get a feel of the unease around that time.

Saturn Libra conjunct Pluto Libra,
AIDS
HIV/AIDS discovered while Pluto was still in late degrees Libra, the conjunction occurred in 1982 afterwards; the big aftermath affected relationships (Libra) and sex (Scorpio) as Pluto ingressed to Scorpio. Don't forget that the CDC didn't want to acknowledge that the blood supply was infected. Scary stuff. So it's not until later with Saturn/Pluto that we see the full effects. More wars here too but on a lesser scale.

Saturn Gemini opposed Pluto Sagittarius,
9/11
The resulting 'wars' carry over to Pluto in Capricorn as it becomes obvious how much money was involved vs. caring for/protecting the people. Another opposition and another, though smaller scale, anti-war movement. But with this one many chose not to listen, the facts came too late for many. For the hardest hit it was late in the game, late in Pluto's journey through Sagittarius that they got the feeling, there's something going on here is worse than we wanted to know.

Saturn Libra square Pluto Capricorn,
???
It's all about money as we now know, it's disgustingly obvious. Is the square pertaining to financial droughts, but isn't that just basics of Pluto in Capricorn? What say does Saturn have in all of this?

And what's your opinion on the conjunctions/oppositons vs. the squares. Are the squares NOT where it's at?

As an aside, I feel the retrogrades give planets added energy. When there's Rx motion, direct, Rx, direct I've seen it in transits as building momentum. It sets the stage and the strong final direct motion puts it all in place.

If you have Saturn/Pluto in your chart, what do you think? Any events posted here resonate for you?

I have the Saturn Pluto conj in Libra. Saturn conj Pluto is a bullet when focusing on a task, no distractions. I can pit this against the people I've met with the Saturn/Pluto opposition, I see the force there being a push pull regarding their personal authority vs. one from the outside. Especially when Uranus was conjoining Pluto, the rebels.

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Diana
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posted March 10, 2010 02:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
t's all about money as we now know, it's disgustingly obvious. Is the square pertaining to financial droughts, but isn't that just basics of Pluto in Capricorn? What say does Saturn have in all of this?

The last time saturn was in aries we had the Great Depression. I hope that doesn't happen now. Pluto/Sat are bad enough alone, but throw in a critical uranus and it gets very frightening.

I know people will try to spin good on pluto/saturn, but I think this pair is vicious -- at least for world affairs. It's usually all for the greater good. Eventually. Eventually has a span of in between that is hard to deal with.


Did you write all of this? It's very good!

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Lonake
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posted March 10, 2010 02:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
Yes I got stuck on Saturn Pluto after finding Donna Cunningham's Preparedness Kit. All I remembered was AIDS from the 80s conj and 9/11 from the opposition. The war over and over is more than a casual factor, unfortunately. But I still have some things that are cloudy for me on the issue, such as the strength of the squares?

Uranus in Aries, the last big factor in Aries seems you're right Saturn in Aries, and Saturn wants to uphold, Hitler wanted to uphold that white race/nation but he twisted it into something vicious. Uranus is a force that breaks away. It rebels, so it's a different tone, an opposite tone from Saturn. Aries wants to be the first, it thinks of itself, so a rebellion for personal rights is one interpretation, which chimes with what a lot of seers, mystics, etc. have been harping on about, or do I listen to Coast to Coast AM a bit too much! Uranus in Aries does seem like an urgent self centered breaking away. Aries does not seem to be about democracy, remember in the 80s again with the Saturn/Pluto in Libra, there were the trendy peace agreements? I'm guessing those aren't going to be in political fashion?

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Lonake
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posted March 10, 2010 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
I saw you noted the Great depression, and to me this seems to be the difference, though its only 1 interpretation:

Pluto Cancer is in one sense the devastation of the family, we already know Pluto gives that sucker punch where it sits. Pluto Capricorn to me says its about the big bad business that doesn't give a frig about you and wants all your money. So far it seems about businesses that were hard hit because of mishandling finances, for their own gains many times, but it still SPILLS OVER into the family, since Capricorn to me in a sense stands for the breadwinner, how do you provide for your own the same or even adequate when you can't make enough to survive like you used to, so it's a trickle down, basically. It's relating in a sense to Pluto in Cancer, but in a different way; it's still about devastation but this time it's a wake up call about fettering away resources, so possibly expect the new generation of Pluto in Capricorn to have some of those same traits as those who grew up with Pluto in Cancer, but this time they will seem to be very adamant about job security. I have a set of grandparents born in 1918/1919--wish they were still here I loved hearing their stories of growing up.

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iQ
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posted March 10, 2010 03:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message
Jupiter Expands.
Saturn Restricts and creates a boundary structure.
Uranus breaks this structure.
Neptune dissolves the broken pieces.
Pluto then extracts the most potent crystal from this solution.

And the cycle continues....

Jupiter is in Pisces, expanding spiritual wisdom. Saturn in Libra will create a balancing reaction from materialists and established scientists. Uranus in Aries will bring new discoveries that shatter all establishment sponsored frauds against spiritual knowledge. Neptune in Pisces will engulf the whole world in all kinds of spiritual trends. Ultimately, Pluto in Capricorn will extract the most practical and useful concepts from this mix that help tackle the Earth Changes, and pave the way for amazing evolutionary growth of humanity when it reaches Aquarius.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted March 10, 2010 04:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I have Pluto square Saturn exactly in my natal chart. It's my closest aspect. It's been hell in a lot of ways, very 'uphill' constantly, almost always.
It feels like I've gone through several lifetimes in this lifetime.
I will say that it gives a steely determination and a grin and bear it attitude when you're going through hardship.
I think it's a combustible mix and can create bitterness.

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starkiss1
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posted March 11, 2010 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starkiss1     Edit/Delete Message
Loonake, thank you for a break from soul mates synastries! Great topic.
I have Saturn in Pisces opposing my Pluto-Uranus in Virgo exactly. I have been pulled in and out of contrasting situations all my life. Every 7(?) or so years my life changes beyond recognition. It's like somebody up there playing with a switch - on/off, on/off.
I still have not figured out why I get this 7 year itch,LOL. It's tiring but resistance is futile.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted March 11, 2010 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Starkiss, Saturn has a 7-year cycle

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Lonake
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posted March 11, 2010 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Starkiss,
You have Uranus squaring that transiting Saturn, so you have to re-evaluate at the same time that upheaval strikes! Transiting Saturn square conj, square opp is bad enough as we know unless we work through it I guess. Hugs.

MVM,
the way you state your experience makes me think the square as another major aspect is as valid as conj/opp. It's a strange square it seems since Saturn Pluto are both powerful forces so to have them squared may feel like when you're trying to get in line with one force there's another that says you're wrong, go back. I can see the stress in that.

quote:
I will say that it gives a steely determination and a grin and bear it attitude when you're going through hardship.
I think it's a combustible mix and can create bitterness.
I can see how this could happen! I have the conj and there's a downside there too, which is it runs you ragged after pushing yourself as hard as it can. Sometimes feels like a force that you're afraid (saturn fear) to push forward with since you know when you do there's no turning back. Now it sounds like I'm using comicbook terminology

iQ,

quote:
Uranus in Aries will bring new discoveries that shatter all establishment sponsored frauds against spiritual knowledge

This sounds promising; I remember Uranus Aries also being tied to inventions.

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vertiver
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posted March 12, 2010 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vertiver     Edit/Delete Message
I love all of your insight and optimism its very reassuring!

When I think of Pluto in Capricorn I think of big corporations and franchises either disolving or becoming more ethical for people, considering that Saturn is in Libra the sign of justice, am I right? Libra is very much a dual sign, like the scales and to me the fact that Saturn is exalted in Libra suggests that marriage may have a new resurgance again as well?

I have to say Lonake I'm very worried about Uranus in Aries, because my IC and Mars are at 7 degrees Aries and I'm dreading the day Uranus will conjunct it both Mars and the IC, am I just being paranoid or what?

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Lonake
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posted March 12, 2010 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
That's interesting, using dispositorship for Pluto, I hadnt thought of that. It would have direct carryover to Libran areas.

It would be great if gays got the right to marry, have same benefits as hetero couples. Libra is all about equal rights. Saturn is cementing those rights. Sounds like new laws coming into play with that too, I guess it would be possible for that to come in.

And I do think those with Saturn in Libra are more geared overall toward marriage as its a variant of Venus Capricorn, so that's an interesting conclusion too. I wonder what the transiting Pluto Capricorn will do as result of the square to those with natal Saturn Libra? Sounds like a lot of relationships being put to the test.

So you have IC ruler conj the IC and it's Mars? That sounds heavy. How's the Mars aspected & what house does Uranus rule?

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Diana
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posted March 12, 2010 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
When I think of Pluto in Capricorn I think of big corporations and franchises either disolving or becoming more ethical for people,


I actually think the opposite. Becoming bigger and less concerned about people fits cap. Cap is ruthless and cold in business. Traditional ruler of saturn. This also bodes very poorly for gay marriage. I think we will get tougher on rapists and child molesters (especially child molesters). It all fits with pluto (sex) and cap (saturn law). People are fed up with children being raped and killed by people who were in and out of jail for the same thing many times. Maybe like a 3 strikes type situation where if they are convicted a certain amount of times of that crime they never get out. Obama even said he is for the death penalty of child rapists.

Obama's reaction to death penalty for child rapists:

""I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances for the most egregious of crimes. I think that the rape of a small child, 6 or 8 years old, is a heinous crime," he said, adding that if a state determines the death penalty should apply in such cases, they should be allowed to impose it."


I don't want to start a whole thing on the death penalty because that is a crazy topic. I am just pointing out that we are heading towards stricter punishments for child rapists. I said before that I feel something will change when pluto is in cap in regards to this problem. A lot of people are very fed up with children disappearing and it turning out to be someone who did it before and got out in 5-10 years -- if that.

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Lonake
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posted March 12, 2010 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
Sounds grim regarding gays when you put it that way.

Interesting you bring up Pluto and rape, since when Pluto was in Sagittarius one of the big deals was those in powerful church positions taking advantage of their influence, being brought to the headlines.

You know all the stories of these children, now teenagers/adults being locked away for yrs/decades and now seeing the light of day, that's been a big deal for Pluto in Capricorn as well. Such as the gruesome Fritzl case. It's now in the headlines.

Also the murders that the heads of households have committed on their families due to lack of resources/losing jobs. As direct responses. I don't remember seeing that these were people who were on welfare. They seemed to be people who hadn't yet filed for unemployment. It's shocking.

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starkiss1
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posted March 12, 2010 06:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for starkiss1     Edit/Delete Message
Loonake, thanx for the hug, much needed.
Quote:
You have Uranus squaring that transiting Saturn...
No, my nat Uranus is in Virgo and I have just been through 3 years of tr Saturn going over
my nat Uranus-Pluto. I am still feeling the aftershocks!
MVM
Quote:
Starkiss, Saturn has a 7-year cycle...

LOL,MVM, thanks for pointing it out, I was so engrossed in 29-30 years cycle! I feel like an idiot. Will look into it.


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starkiss1
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posted March 12, 2010 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for starkiss1     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098004/Our-ordeal-hands-British-Fritzl-Son-breaks-silence-tell-abuse-rapes.html
This is the case of a British Fritzl. They are all coming out of the woods, uh?

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katatonic
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posted March 12, 2010 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
the sign and its issues that pluto passes through a) has its shadow exposed and b) undergoes a major restructuring as a result.

so big business, govt, other structures (capricorn) of the establishment, are under the microscope now and their shadows are showing BIGTIME. as in the time of the american revolution when pluto was in cap (and wasn't saturn in libra about the same time???) a major restructuring of power structures occurred...though some of those powers just went underground everything came to a head and the british mismanagement of their colonies had its shadow exposed and rejected!

the fact that uranus will enter aries soon will add impetus to that trend as the individuality gets into high gear in aries...demanding that the individual get his FULL say in the way big business etc are run..

i love your analysis lonake...great thoroughness and intuitive grasp of the powers at play in those situations.

i also think that saturn brings things down to earth, so to speak, so it is not so much that saturn embodies the fear part of the equation, i think pluto is more about what we are afraid to acknowledge...so, for instance in the second world war saturn gave solidity to the expression of the collective shadow - and made it necessary to deal with it!!

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vertiver
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posted March 12, 2010 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vertiver     Edit/Delete Message
Great insight on the Saturn in Libra folks, what era was this anyways? The mid-seventies?

And to answer your question about T. Uranus conjunct natal Mars and IC:

My natal Mars in Aries is conjunct the IC and is trine natal Sun (8th) and Asc. Square Neptune (1st) and square Chiron (7th) and opposite MC, natal Uranus is in the first house and Aquarius cusp is located in the second house.

I just hope this transit will effect me and not my parents, I'm very protective of them, I guess this shows I have Mars on the IC...

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vertiver
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posted March 12, 2010 09:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vertiver     Edit/Delete Message
The other can of worms will be when T. Chiron enters early Pisces and is conjunct natal Moon (3rd) and eventually T. Neptune will enter Pisces and do the same...

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MyVirgoMask
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posted March 12, 2010 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Saturn in Libra people are like early 80s i think?
Early to mid-70s peoples are Saturn in Gemini/Cancer. We're having our Saturn sq Saturn now.

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Lonake
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posted March 13, 2010 01:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
Speak of the devil,

Josef Fritzl

Already he's being touted as America's answer to Josef Fritzl,
News item,
Famous music video director charged on Thursday & will face 5 separate rape trials for each of his 5 daughters, fathering 6 children to create a pure blood line in preparation for doomsday. Yes, thats right, in case you didn't get the msg, you need a pure blood line to survive doomsday. http://www.nydailynews.com /news/ny_crime/2010/03/11/2010-03-11_pure_evil_nj_fantatic_aswad_ayinde_charged_with_raping_daughters_having_children.html

Aswad Ayinde

Truth is stranger than fiction.

What is it about Pluto in Capricorn that is bringing these horror stories out of the woodwork? They're almost all perpetrated by the fathers, is that the Saturn connection, or is that too much of an easy conclusion? What's worse, is that there will be/already are parents now imitating these gruesome cases, unleashing their demons on their children in the most wretched form. The word dungeon keeps popping up a lot as well.

Guess what, astro peeps, Dungeons are ruled by Saturn/Capricorn, according to the Rulership Book by Rex E. Bills, most/(all?) pgs free as an online read for your perusal @ Google Books, http://books.google.com/

I believe astrology works, reflecting our lives here on earth, but this is eerie even for me. These events with the children bother me as much as what Hitler did to the Jews. Not even the wars affect me like this.

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