posted April 09, 2010 09:28 PM         

and I don't think a soul is shown in the chart. It is beyond the chart.

but following that line of thinking then the closest house would be the 12th representing things prior to birth and beyond what is seen and of this time.

posted April 10, 2010 12:59 AM         

quote:

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The soul of THIS life, is said to enter into the being via 4th house cusp

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posted April 10, 2010 01:33 AM         

In Evolutionary Astrology of Jeffrey Wolf Green, Pluto is viewed as the soul,evolutionary intent. That's what his astrological system is based on. That system was created at the time when Pluto was thought to be only the transneptunian in the solar system. It was thought that the solar system ended with Pluto. That turned out to not be true.

Maurice Fernandez's Evolutionary Astrology is based on using Neptune in that way. Technically, it's now officially the last planet in our solar system.

In Cosmobiology and Uranian Astrology, Midheaven is viewed as the soul, the "I". They see it as the more important part of the chart. Cosmobiologists and Uranian Astrologer don't use house systems,and so they don't correlate the Midheaven with the 10th house cusp. Besides, Midheaven as 10th house cusp is irrelevant in whole sign and equal house systems.

In Vedic Astrology, the Sun is viewed as the soul.

In Magi Astrology, Chiron is mainly viewed as things involving soul stuff. However, there are 60 other centaurs in our solar system. Magi Astrologer's theories on Chiron were based on not knowing or ignoring Chiron's fellow centaurs like Pholus,Nessus,and Chariklo. Chariklo is larger than Chiron too.

If outer planets are viewed in regards to soul stuff, it would make sense for the transnepunian objects to be. Pluto has been considered one of the outer planets,but it's not really a planet. Pluto is one of many transneptunians. If you still consider Pluto as an outerplanet, then it's logical to accept the other large objects as outerplanets including the ones that are officially classed as dwarf planets alongside Pluto - Eris,Makemake,and Haumea. I'd focus more on the large ones. I think of Eris and Pluto as the Jupiter and Saturn of the dwarf planets,dwarf planet candidates in regards to size.

The transneptunians are actually very old remnants of our solar system.

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 10, 2010 02:01 AM         

What's basic astrology though?

It really depends on the system and what an astrologer's view of what's basic in Astrology.

Traditional Astrology didn't include Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto.

Vedic Astrologers,Classical Astrologers,Medieval Astrologers,Hellenistic Astrologers don't even use those objects,and Modern Western Astrology is criticized by many Vedic Astrologers for using Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto.

When Ptolemy used Astrology, he didn't use aspects by geometrical angle. He used whole sign aspects like Vedic Astrologers. The way Western Mainstream Astrologers use aspects is not how Ptolemy used them. He didn't use the quincunx nor the semisextile either.

In traditional Astrology, there was much more emphasis on fixed stars (they even used wide orbs of like 8 degrees when a time there were no knowledge of the outerplanets), Part of Fortune,and Arabic Parts. Part of Fortune was used like an ascendant, and houses were looked at from the Part of Fortune.

When you look at the history of the use of fixed stars, the star paran system was the original method of using the fixed stars. Parans are when heavenly bodies are on angles simultaneously at certain moment in time. It's a rotation system based on the horizon coordinates which are relative to the observer.

Astrological systems were based on simplistic and outdated views of the solar system too when astrologers didn't know about many objects in space. It mirrored a time when life was more simplistic and primitive.

Astrology evolved with the discoveries of Astronomy that mirrored the evolution of life.

an astrologer even pointed the following about the discoveries of the transneptunians:
"The astronomers have wholeheartedly immersed themselves in mythological symbolism and broadly assigned the inner Kuiper Belt to the Underworld and the outer Kuiper Belt to Creation. This has helped us out with the astrological understanding considerably, so it was no surprise to see that the Kuiper Belt discoveries coincided with the recent advancements in quantum physics; it’s theories of hidden, invisible dimensions and the search for the holy grail of creation. " http://www.midlandsschoolofastrology.co.uk/introduction_to_dwarf_planets_for_astrologers.html

There is no real verdict that I can give. It would only be subjective. It would not matter to anybody else

Astrology is very subjective. The proof is in how astrologers disagree on so many things like what astrological system to use, what objects to use in Astrology,what houses to use, what orbs to use,what coordinates to use, what fixed star methods to use, etc. Orbs are probably the most hotly debated.

It is all about what astrologers feel is comfortable for them and what they can relate to,and it working for the people that they do readings for. They have to keep in mind that other astrologers have their own different views of what is relevant in Astrology.

That is something that Steven Forrest made a point about when I pointed out the Tower of Babel that's been going on in Astrology and that one true Astrology is a myth and can be blown out of the water.

Modern Mainstream Astrologers view Uranus as ruler of Astrology. Uranus is said to be the planet associated with change and progression. Mainstream Astrology obviously changed after modern astronomical discoveries. After all, Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto are regularly being used. Those were discovered by modern astronomers. Those weren't ancient planets. Those objects in Astrology were used to examine life that was getting more complexed.

the astrologer that I posted about in regards to transneptunians said:

"We don't need astrology to tell us life is getting more complex..... but we do need an astrology to describe it!!" http://www.midlandsschoolofastrology.co.uk/introduction_to_dwarf_planets_for_astrologers.html

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 10, 2010 02:37 AM         

It could be the Moon or the IC or something in draconic, who knows?
Some people are wise, some aren't. Wisdom isn't going to be guaranteed as a yes or no by a chart. I mean, of course there's speculation. But speculation alone is futile with something as hands-on as wisdom."

Exactly

there really aren't any absolutes in Astrology except for that there are a lot more objects in our solar system than what our forefathers/mothers knew about.

So many things in Astrology are relative.

It's like how religious,spiritual beliefs are - there are so many views.

but yeah...I don't really bother looking at how old and advanced the soul is. I think that it's all subjective. There isn't even any firm proof that a soul exists, and that makes it even more subjective. Subjectivity doesn't equate to being false just like objectivity doesn't equate to being true. Those are all relative perceptions.

Those are reasons why I can't put my faith in any type of religious,spiritual book. I can read something and not be sold on it. I just read something,and I am like "OK...this seems possible..this makes sense to me...I will try this out" with the thought that I can always change my mind. I have been doing that in regards to Astrology as I looked at many astrological systems and methods. I have studied Vedic Astrology,and I have studied Uranian Astrology. I lost interest in Vedic Astrology because I thought was too rigid and based too much on religious scriptures of very conservative culture with no room for progression. I lost interest in Uranian Astrology because I couldn't use hypothetical objects that astronomers haven't even discovered yet.

I even told my shaman friend today that I haven't been going to my Unity church in over a month. I told him that being any type of church is not for me because of the routine and structure.

There is routine and structure in Astrology that is based on fixed views that are passed on from astrologers to astrologers through books,lectures,workshops. It really isn't much different from ministers,preachers in how they teach. There is still subjectivity based on their perceptions of what works in their lives and what they think works for many others, and so they feel the need to share this with others. These lead to systems which are agreed upon by large amount of people. People who came up with things at first tended to be shunned by the majority. Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and it was based on a religious teacher who was so controversial that he ended up getting crucified. New ideas presented by astrologers that don't concur with the ideas of Mainstream Astrology are criticized by the Mainstream astrologers. Over time with workshops,classes,and books, these new ideas become part of the mainstream.

Those things can apply to anything in life.

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 10, 2010 03:02 AM         

There is no real simple answer to what you say is a simple question. In my opinion, that is not a simple question. I believe that it's a complex question because it's asking for a simple question because I cannot give. Therefore, I felt the need to answer in a way that is complex,and so I answer with that information.

The simple answer that you want me to give would only be subjective. It would not matter to anybody else.

It really depends on the system, and what an astrologer's view of what's basic in Astrology.
Astrology is very subjective. Astrology is relative for there is much diversity.

I have problems using a 20th Century astrological system to examine a 21st Century world. Today's world is more complex than the times of Mainstream Astrologers adding Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto. I believe that the ever-increasing modern astronomical discoveries are in synchronicity with the ever-increasing complexity of the world.

As an astrologer, I want to progress and get with the times. If I don't, I won't be much different from Vedic astrologers that don't even use the Trans-Saturnian objects.I am only speaking for myself and not for anybody else.

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 10, 2010 03:12 AM         

I think people act very much like their Moon signs when drunk. "

Shrugs

my Moon in Pisces squares Neptune with a 1'22 orb any way......so Moon-Neptune double whammy

I can't pass a drunk driver's test even when I am sober!

I have taken neurological tests, and they are the same type of tests that are given as field sobriety tests. I get abnormal results on those. That is something that I want to raise awareness to police about too. Last January,I was one of the 12 chosen jurors questioned during a screening process in a drunk driving case. I expressed my view and explained in detail about why I don't believe sobriety tests aren't necessarily accurate. I got dismissed by the prosecutor,and so I didn't have to be a juror and my jury duty was over.

I actually have an idea of a neurodivergent empathy program that involves the use of neurotypical people using drunkenness-induction goggles to simulate the problems of neurodivergence. http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/45c762 ec-0487-4cc0-9b5c-be54e41ecf2d

No alcoholic beverages in my system since January 1999.

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 10, 2010 03:55 AM         

Even all that is relative and subjective.

Keeping it simple depends on one's view of what is simple. It depends on the astrological system and what is being used.
Not all astrologers use Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto. Keeping it simple for them means just using the luminaries,the visible planets,and the lunar nodes.

A perception of what's better is relative too. What's better for you may not be better for anybody else. What's better for me may not be better for anybody else. Of course, a lot of astrologers disagree what is better.

I don't think that you're a lazy astrologer at all. You're just an astrologer that wants a simple answer to a question that you think is simple when asking my verdict in regards to soul indicators in Astrology as well as a system that is simple for you to use. In my view, it is not a simple question because Astrology is relative because of the diversity. I don't want to come up with a verdict that is based on my subjectivity.

There is a lot of subjectivity,relativity,diversity in Astrology. Critics,Skeptics even use that point to discredit Astrology. That doesn't mean that Astrology has no validity though.

I also want to point something about myself in general. I tend to have problems answering simple questions due to problems with with demand language whether it's spoken or written.

the following explains:

Language Disability. It is possible to think of language output as being
spontaneous or on demand. Spontaneous means that the person initiates the
conversation. Thoughts have been organized and words found before speaking.
Demand language means that one is asked a question or asked to explain
something. Now, she must organize his thoughts, find the right words, and speak
at the same time. Most people with a language disability have little difficulty
with spontaneous language. However, in a demand situation, the same person might
struggle to organize her thoughts or to find the right words. http://www.ldanatl.org/aboutld/teachers/understanding/types.asp

I like the following explanation most because it really explains in detail,and I
can strongly relate. I relate to it a lot more when I was a kid. This was the
explanation that I was looking for to show you earlier:

Language disability

Two forms of language are used in communication, spontaneous language and demand language.

You use spontaneous language in situations where you initiate whatever is said. Here you have the luxury of picking the subject and taking some time to organize your thoughts and to find the correct words before you say anything. In
a demand language situation, someone else sets up a circumstance in which you
must communicate. A question is put to you, for example. Now you have no time to
organize your thoughts or find the right words; you have only a split second in
which you must simultaneously organize, find words, and answer more or less
appropriately.

Children with a specific language disability usually have no difficulty with
spontaneous language. They do, however, often have problems with demand
language. The inconsistency can be quite striking. A youngster may initiate all
sorts of conversation, may never keep quiet, in fact, and may sound quite
normal. But put into a situation that demands a response, the same child might
answer "Huh?" or "What?" or "I don't know." Or the child may ask you to repeat
the question to gain time, or not answer at all. If the child is forced to
answer, the response may be so confusing or so circumstantial that it is
difficult to follow. She or he may sound totally unlike the child who was
speaking so fluently just a minute ago. This inconsistency or confusion in
language behavior often puzzles parents and teachers. A teacher might put a
child down as lazy or negative because he or she does well when volunteering to
speak or answer a question, but won't answer or says "I don't know" when called
on. The explanation could lie in the child's inability to handle demand
language, but contradictory behavior like this makes sense only if you know
about the disability. http://www.ldonline.org/article/5821

my problem is more due to my thinking being mainly nonlinear,lateral,picture/visual.
Therefore, I tend to ramble and can be viewed as being tangential when communicating for I have problems in answering in concise ways. I will try to explain in much detail.

I will do a psychology test, and I will have problems with answering the questions on it because I see different ways of how that question can be answered.

I even believe that it applies to Astrology, especially when it comes to coordinates.
They sky can be viewed from more than one perspective (ecliptic coordinates,equatorial coordinates,and horizon coordinates) http://astrologysoftware.com/resources/vastrology/vastrology.asp?orig=
There are many different ways to do Astrology. Not one way of doing Astrology is better than another way of doing it.

I am just end it with
my agreeing to disagree

It really all comes down to:
to each, his or her own

I believe that anything in Astrology is relative and can be questioned regardless of what you,I,and others believe.

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement