posted April 30, 2010 10:10 PM         

Oh JOY..

hehe

If you are a tad sick and tired of my constant theory stream.. feel free to ignore this thread

So here it goes -- (btw it is very very very loooooooong. I was debating whether to post this or not because it seemed like a lot to explain.. But most of my explanation is through examples.. If you don't have the time to read through all of this.. read only the *bolded* chunks and please tell me what you think and whether or not this works for you

I think planets might be an indication of PREFERRED social roles and behaviour for males and females.. What I mean by that is a little different to the standard traditional *take* on planets..

I am mainly going to refer to: Sun-Moon-Venus-Mars here -- as they work in relationships. This "theory" of mine relies on the idea that growing up we receive certain messages from our parents.. and the messages we receive from the mother figure are incorporated as the Moon (mostly) and Venus (on a more sexual level).. whereas the messages we receive from the father figure are incorporated as the Sun (mostly) and Mars (again on a more basic-primal level).

I am not including Mercury here because I don't believe it is a clearly feminine or masculine planet. But you can include it as either feminine or masculine if you like.

The standard story in astrology is that males and females with particular placements can be quite different *because* women relate most of all to their feminine planets: Moon and Venus.. and men relate most of all to their masculine planets: Sun and Mars.

I don't think this is the case *exactly*.. but something similar may be the case.

For example - I think two people (one male and one female) with Capricorn Sun - will have a similar perspective on the world, but the ROLE they choose to play is different.

So they both may have seen their father figure growing up as *the career person* - *the bread winner*, *the financial support of their family*.. This gave them BOTH the idea/belief that it is a man's *role* in a relationship to DO this. So they both agree on that much!

But because one of them is female and one of them is male the part they *choose* to play is often quite different. The Cap Sun male will take on the male role (bread winner)... and the Cap Sun female will take on an almost opposite role in a serious relationship -- because she believes men have a *duty* to be the "bread winner". On a Sun-level she may even take on a Cancerian role - the stay at home wife for example - in the relationship.

------------------------------------

Another example is my own chart and my ex's chart. We both have Capricorn Moon. Growing up we both saw our mother playing a traditionally fatherly-Capricorn role. Both of our parents divorced and the mum was the primary financial support. I saw my mum as the "bread winner" and so did he.

My dad was there on and off but undependable overall.. and so was his dad.

This gave me a very clear message that women must have a career and women MUST be the financially supportive ones in any relationship. I have always stuck by this message in my life and worked towards my career goals. I do feel deep down that it is important for me to be able to sustain my family financially (with or without support from a husband) -- once I do have a family..

This is not a negative thought for me. It's something that feels natural to me and normal.. But I realize how odd and different it is considering traditional social norms (The Moon is detriment in Cap.. which is what makes it "odd"... because women are still expected to play a more Cancerian role).

Now my ex also had this view of women -- due to the way he saw his own mother (his own Capricorn Moon). Just like me -- This is what he believe women *should* be like in a relationship.. It is what feels "normal" to him... and in his turn -- he would take on an almost opposite role to that and be the emotionally supportive partner - more Cancerian... while she is the bread-winner.

I can see how this played out in our relationship and how it felt perfectly natural to both of us because our Moons are in sync.

What does this say about -- Sun-Sun, Moon-Moon, Venus-Venus, Mars-Mars, Sun-Moon, Sun-Venus, Mars-Moon, Mars-Venus -- aspects in synastry?

I think ONE important thing it says is that *feminine planet--masculine planet* conjunctions do not work very well at all. The oppositions work much better. I have not put enough thought into the other aspects yet. I'm trying to figure that out still.

In the example above -- lets say the Cap Sun man *meets* a Cap Moon woman in exact conjunction by aspect.. What happens? They do like each other - TRUE - because on some level they are similar so there is a sympatico feeling there. BUT - can they make it work long term?

I'm inclined to say NO.. because there would also be a lot of friction when it comes to gender roles and what each of them expects. The Cap Sun man has a particular view of men as traditionally fatherly and for that reason he would have a desire to take care of his family financially - believing this to be his *duty* and his *role*.

The Cap Moon woman has a particular view of women -- believing that a woman's role is to be what is traditionally seen as fatherly-masculine... and BE the bread-winner... herself. She will simply not feel comfortable in any other role.

Obviously - this can cause problems for them.. because neither of them will want to be the stay at home parent and neither of them will want to play an emotionally supportive role. It can also cause a type of competitiveness career-wise... and further a desire to mold the other person.. The Cap Sun man might think: "She is so much like me.. she would be JUST perfect.... IF.... I could mold her into a more submissive Cancerian style"... The Cap Moon woman would think: "He is so much like me.. he would be just perfect if he let me be the career-person and he focused more on our family and home".

Neither of these changes will occur ^^ so it is bound to lead to MANY MANY stormy arguments and much unhappiness overall.

These problems are JUST as present if we are talking about a Capricorn Sun female and a Capricorn Moon male. Again this aspect may cause friction because the Capricorn Sun female (JUST like the Capricorn Sun male) -- will believe that a man has a particular ROLE and that role is to be the bread-winner. So the Cap Sun female will expect this from her partner. A Cap Moon man will expect the same thing from a female partner.. he will want his Cap Sun female wife... to be the "career-girl"... At the same time she wants HIM to be the "career-guy" while she is supportive in the background. So this can also cause a lot of friction.

On the other hand -- the Sun/Moon opposition fits perfectly.. so if a woman has a Cancer Moon -- when it comes to the role she wants to play in a serious relationship -- that role is the stay-at-home mother. A Capricorn Sun man would easily FIT that ideal and that picture.. since they feel comfortable as the "bread winner"... On the other hand a man with Cancer Moon would LIKE his female partner to be the traditional stay-at-home mum.. A woman with Capricorn sun would prefer to be in this role (as above) -- since she innately feels that it is a man's role to be the financially supporting partner.

There are two things about this that are a bit strange:

1. I guess I am saying that the way a woman behaves in a relationship is something more like the OPPOSITE of her masculine planets - PLUS - her feminine planets..

So if you are female and your chart is:

Capricorn Sun
Libra Moon
Aquarius Venus
Capricorn Mars

In a relationship you would behave more like:

Cancer Sun (expecting the man to be Capricorn-like in a serious relationship)

Libra Moon (expecting the man to be Aries-like in a serious relationship)

Aquarius Venus (expecting the man to be Leo-like romantically-sexually)

Cancer Mars (expecting the man to be Capricorn-like romantically-sexually)

As I said above this has a lot to do with your perspective on gender-roles, which may be acquired from your parents and the relationship they had while you were growing up.

For men it is the other way around.. In a relationship men would behave more like the opposite of their Moon and Venus -- PLUS -- their Sun-Mars signs..

I'm not sure how accurate this is.. but I think I can apply this to a few people in my life.. so I wanted to know what LL people thought about it?

2. Often in astrology you really cannot say much from one aspect alone and I realize that.. BUT each aspect has its own "life" in the relationship.. It runs its own course.

So for example.. take a Cancer Sun woman who also has a Cancer Moon...
Her Cancer Sun has a particular take on male-female relationships whereby the father is the "emotional-motherly" figure.. based on the way she saw her *own* father growing up.. For that reason she believes men in general should fit this role.. and she would not feel perfectly comfortable with a Cap Sun male.. who is colder and not that relationship-emotion oriented.

But Her MOON in Cancer... wants JUST that - a man who is a little cold - a little aloof.. who goes out and pays the bills.

In this kind of situation (when the individual has a female personal planet *and* a masculine planet in the same SIGN) -- I think there is always an inner conflict.

Take a woman who has an Aries Moon and Aries Mars -- another conflict.. On a martian (sexual level).. they desire a man who is aggressive and dominating. On a Moon (emotional level) .. they would like to be the aggressive dominating person..

So they may like a guy who is a little Libran or Taurean (Venusian) - in the relationship... when it comes to daily matters.. so that they feel in "charge" of the relationship.. while the same guy should be highly aggressive and Aries-like in the bedroom.

I chucked these examples in.. because some of you might read what I said initially and think: "hmmm that does not work for me -- even though I have a Capricorn Moon --- I do not want to be the bread winner".. or whatever else (depending on the Moon sign)

My answer is --- well maybe you have a Capricorn Sun as well! or a Sun that is close enough in feel to Capricorn -- For example a Virgo Sun in the 10th. In that case you would want the guy to WORK - a LOT - and bring in money... because your father also did THIS.

But you would also like to be a career-girl yourself (as your mother was).. So in this kind of scenario -- I guess children are not in the books for you any time soon... because you would prefer to focus on material things and achievements - You are not interested in forming a relationship with a motherly-partner... nor are you interested in BEING the motherly-partner.

More examples on why I believe fem.planet-2- fem.planet conjunctions work perfectly... and so do male.planet-2-male.planet... BUT not at all fem2male planet

OK so -- the experiences I had that made me think about this idea -- were often at Venus-Mars level.

I have a Taurean Venus and I am LAZY romantically. I love my comfort zone. I love relaxing in the Sun and giving men "come on over looks" every so often. I wouldn't chase anything - if they paid me.. I am much too stubborn and stuck in my comfort zone. If Leo DiCaprio walked passed (and God knows I am attracted to him) -- and he was too far out of my reach -- I wouldn't lift a finger.. I would still be relaxing in the sun. This passive-role sexually & romantically makes me happy. Some men like it, some don't... It's neither here nor there for me because I'm much too stubborn to ever change.

So there I am -- in the middle of the beach - relaxing sipping on champagne.

But hang on!!! Wait a MINUTE! What is THAT sexy thing I see in the distance with my surfie-gazing binoculars????

Is it a bull? Is it a sand-statue? Nooooooo It's The Taurean MARS male!!

And there he is... relaxing in the sun... just LIKE me. There he is in his extra comfortable beach-chair, sipping on strawberry champagne and munching on some chocolate snacks. But what do ya know?
He has his own binoculars.. He is *gazing* HIMSELF.. and he sees me!!

But do you think this Taurus Mars male will NOW -- pick himself up.. and come ON over to greet me?

NO NO NO..

Because you see bulls don't come over.. BULLS are LAZY. I should know... because I'm LAZY myself.

So he will stubbornly wait there until *I* - *ME* - The Aphrodite of the sign of Taurus - GO over there - myself (which will happen.. at that point in time most people refer to as - NEVER!!!!!!!).. to better his existence just that little bit MORE and give him even more enjoyment in life than he is already having with his drink, his food and scenery.

So there we are .. and there we will be years ON.. We will both stubbornly stand on our stubbornly well defined comfort zone.. and refuse to take ONE step in the other's direction. Because after all says Tauro Venus -- "men should be the aggressive ones.. that is the message I received from my mommy"... and -after all- says Taurus Mars "men should be laid back and relaxed patiently waiting for a woman to fall out of the sky... as my daddy taught ME!!"

What's there to do in such a conundrum with two such stubborn individuals?

The truth is it simply feels unnatural to BOTH people. The end result is *nothing* -- not much at all.. possibly sex if they both happen to literally BUMP into each other next to a comfy water bed with scented candles all around.. and they accidentally FALL onto the bed upon colliding.

The attraction is there - but something is completely out of sink and it often causes much friction and problems in my experience.

But is this enough to get a girl down????

Naw of course NOT... Because lookie what goes there slithering through the sand.. TIS the Scorpio Mars male to my sexual rescue!!

As opposed to a Taurean Mars.. A Scorpio Mars guy has NO problem putting energy and drive into sex.. and into pursuing the object of his attraction. For that reason a Scorpio Mars man (as has been proven to me) - is PERFECT for my Taurean submissiveness and placid-behaviour sexually.

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I don't want to make this post even longer than what it already is... WOW lol
So I will stop there..

But the gist is this..

THE GIST (in Synastry):

Female Personal Planet (Moon Venus) CONJUNCT another Female Personal Planet (Moon Venus)... works extremely well!!

Male Personal Planet (Sun Mars) CONJUNCT another Male Personal Planet (Sun Mars) also works extremely well!!

Trines also work well in both cases BUT not quite as well as conjunctions.

-----------------------------------------

Female Personal Planet (Moon Venus) OPPOSITE another Female Personal Planet (Moon Venus)... does not work.. There is a significant clash in views on female behaviour in the relationship (what this should be like).

Male Personal Planet (Sun Mars) OPPOSITE another Male Personal Planet (Sun Mars) also does not work well at all. There is a significant clash in views on male behaviour in the relationship (what this should be like).

On the other hand..

Female Personal Planet (Moon Venus) conjunct Male Personal Planet (Sun Mars) does not work well at all. The two people feel out of sync. The attraction is there but they cannot find a balance and ultimately it does not feel fulfilling.

This is also true for trines somewhat.. but to a lesser extent. Basically a trine could still be OK but not nearly as fulfilling as the opposition.. The people would still not be getting exactly what they want.

ie. Taurus Venus female... trine Virgo Mars male.. he will not be as sexually aggressive as she would like.

Whereas..

Female Personal Planet (Moon Venus) opposite Male Personal Planet (Sun Mars) works famously.. everyone is getting what they desire and happiness all around.

Obviously other aspects can counter that ^^.. but this aspect in itself should be a cause of comfort and happiness.

-------- I am not sure exactly what to do with sextiles and squares yet.. I'm thinking about it ----------

______________________________________________

Disclaimer:

I realize not everyone fits the male-female dichotomy (if you feel you do not at all - then this theory may not work for you) but a majority of people tend to conform to one social role - a feminine role- or the other -a masculine role- socially... So for instance a transsexual person who lives their life as female, even though they were born male -- I would say they are in a feminine role.. and the things that would apply to them would be things that I mention in "women".. Or a person born intersex who still lives their life as one sex or the other -- whether they had a surgery or not --- would still relate to one of these usually.

I know this makes some people uncomfortable. I am not at all referring to what *should* be the case in this thread... I am only referring to a majority of the people out there -- as the world IS today - on this planet... and the male-female dichotomy they are usually taught to obey.

posted April 30, 2010 11:04 PM         

Yeah I do have to have an aggressive man, but at the same time, he can not be over powering or domineering. Usually fires signs and me go round and round.... (men wise)

My Venus wants to be taken care of and wants security, but all that fire makes sure I do it for my self..... So in turns into a need to want emotional security.

I seem to do best with men that have half water and fire... They have the sensitivity but also the aggressiveness..

posted April 30, 2010 11:06 PM         

I have a Capricorn Moon, Cancer Sun.

I do expect to bring home the money when I decide to get married. But only if the man works too... bringing home more than me.

And quite honestly, I would love to stay home and raise children because I have a Cancer sun. But the only way this would happen is if I decided to write a book or something. But, I must get a very good education no matter what I do in my life.

posted April 30, 2010 11:11 PM         

How does it explain the very frequent venus conjunct mars in synastry and venus conjunct sun/moon, though?

posted April 30, 2010 11:33 PM         

quote:

---

For example - I think two people (one male and one female) with Capricorn Sun - will have a similar perspective on the world, but the ROLE they choose to play is different.

So they both may have seen their father figure growing up as *the career person* - *the bread winner*, *the financial support of their family*.. This gave them BOTH the idea/belief that it is a man's *role* in a relationship to DO this. So they both agree on that much!

But because one of them is female and one of them is male the part they *choose* to play is often quite different. The Cap Sun male will take on the male role (bread winner)... and the Cap Sun female will take on an almost opposite role in a serious relationship -- because she believes men have a *duty* to be the "bread winner". On a Sun-level she may even take on a Cancerian role - the stay at home wife for example - in the relationship.

---

posted April 30, 2010 11:50 PM         

Sun-Cancer
Moon-Virgo
Venus-Gemini
Mars-Aries
Asc-Capricorn

I always expect to bring in some money, I could never become completely 'stay at home' while he goes to work,otherwise I'd become seriously bored..LOL. However, I don't want to have to financially support my partner either unless its like DIRE (ie. he lost his job)...otherwise,that's a serious turnoff for me. My sun does think it would nice to be taken care of, but in the end it's all about autonomy for me.

Oh,I can tell you for sure that I am not a fan of Libra Venuses opposing my Aries Mars. Their actions greatly contradict their attitudes. They first expect me to come to them, and then accuse me of being too aggressive or 'manly'.....frickin' pigs.

posted May 01, 2010 06:30 AM         

interesting theory. And you put much thought into it.
For that
I don`t agree to it completely though.

"This "theory" of mine relies on the idea that growing up we receive certain messages from our parents.. and the messages we receive from the mother figure are incorporated as the Moon (mostly) and Venus (on a more sexual level).. whereas the messages we receive from the father figure are incorporated as the Sun (mostly) and Mars (again on a more basic-primal level)."
At least concerning Sun and Moon I agree SOMEWHAT.
BUT it is not always that case.
First of all: is it even true that the messages we received from Mum and Dad are received through our planets?
Or more importantly, is it true that we incorporate and COPY these rules in all cases?
Well I know many friends who actually made a deliberate decision to NOT repeat the roles they have met in their parents.
Actually my Mum is the best example for it; she decided deliberately to NOT act like her mum had. Her mum was on the one hand a very sponaneous, impulsive, goodhearted person, who had an "infectious laugh" and had such "an amazing singing voice, that neighbours would stop under the window to listen to her singing", as my Mum said. On the other hand my maternal grandmother was very impulsive and moody, leading her to quickly slap her children or punish them for things that they didn`t even do. And she was not able to show them any kind of heartfelt affection; the only times there was an emotional exchange, as my mum remembers, was when SHE was comforting her mum. But the thing she remembers most about her, was her impatience, impusivity and very hotblooded temperament. Now in rage, and the moment later it was all forgotten. VERY unpredictable.

My Mum has Moon and Venus in Virgo. And as a mum herself she has VERY much relied on her Moon and Venus position, even though she never experiencd the typical Virgo-qualities through her Mum.

The same goes for me. Moon is in Aquarius, but I have never really experienced my Mum as Aquarius-like.
I have not REALLY experienced her as Capricornian like either.
I have experienced her as a mix of Sagittarius and Scorpio to be honest, and my Dad I have experienced as very Uranian and yet SAturnian in the way that he was the breadwinner, very intelligent, but sometimes emotionally detached, yet someone who was almost like a "friend" and at the same time knowing i could always rely on him (both parents actually) and that despite a certain inability to express his emotional attachment to us children in demonstrative ways, I never doubted it was there.

Well, actually my Dad and Mum fit the constellations of my 4th house (Moon) and 5th house (Sun) much more than the actual plaents.
my 4th house cusp is opposing Pluto (Mum is a Scorpio), ruler of 4th house is in Sagittarius conjunct ASC and Neptune, squaring Jupiter. Identification with Mum (ruler of 4th house on ASC), having many fruitful discussions about philosophy / lifestyles and ideas etc. with her (ruler of 4th house in SAg), education was always a big thing for her, or actually that her children could have the best chances in life she could provide (my brother and me were actually the first in the family to study, and we both are becoming teacher - no coincidence with the intellectual background and social ideas my parents planeted in us - very idealistic both of them, my mum even more than my dad), on the other hand also some manipulations and emotional pressures (me feeling responsible for Mum´s feelings, never knowing what was cooking in her; sometimes she would just turn silent on all of us) and basically a very Plutonic behaviour, which makes sense as she has Sun in Scorpio.

As mentioned I experienced Dad as a mix of Uranian and Saturnian.
My 5th house ruler is in Capricorn. Cusp of 5th house exactly opposes Uranus.
Of course he is natally very Uranian and Saturnian, too. Stellium including Sun in Aquarius; Saturn on ASC, ASC-ruler in Capricorn.

I did not REALLY experience him as a big Sagittarian, even though the difference between Sag and Aqua sometimes is difficult to see. And I definitely did not experience him as Neptunian (Mars conjunct Neptune in my chart). I also did not identify as much with him as my mum; well I do to a certian degree, but with my mum, it is a very tight identification, and we are triggering each other just by our Selves, while there is a bit more "air" between my Dad and me.
Well, ruler of 5th house is in 1st house, but not conjunct ASC.

Apart from that, mum and Dad, I am acting out all my personal planets on my own. I am VERY much Sagittarian by myself - actually to a point that both, my Mum and Dad, have certain difficulties of understanding (neither of them is strong in Sagittarius natally). Especially for my Mum it`s hard (my Dad gets along with it better, as his IC is in SAgittarius, and his Venus conjuncts Jupiter).

But the thing is I AM my Sun (and Mars). Now in my case Sun is in 1st house and Mars conjunct my ASC - so we do act out the planets in our 1st house on our own more easily, even if they belong to the opposite Gender.
I never have acted like a Gemini in all my life though. *shrugs*

Bu the same goes for my Mum and Dad btw. Neither of them can deny their Sun/Mars or Moon/Venus-placement.
Her Sun in Scorpio and Mars in Virgo - maybe they likes that in men (but then it`s surprising she married my Dad with his Sun in Aquarius and Mars in Libra; ASC is in Virgo though), but she expresses that very clearly herself. Not just the virgo-traits, but ESPECIALLY the Scorpio traits. Noone would doubt her Sunsign.

My Dad has Moon in Taurus and Venus in Aquarius - and he has never been anything like Scorpio-Moon or Leo-Venus. Taurus and Aquarius, that fits him really well. The slightly detached, yet stable and in a weird way affectionate personality. And he LOVES nature and being in the garden, tending to our plants (something my Sag planets cannot comprehend at all).

Anyway what I wanted to say is that even though I am influenced by my parents, it cannot be that easily contributed to Sun/Mars and Moon/Venus.

Actually I am inclined to say, that if this influence appears somewhere in my chart, then it is in the constllations around my 5th and 4th house.

There may also be instances where we "project" opposite gender planets onto other people, but they are still a part of us.
And Venus (as a general symbol) ALWAYS in all charts, no matter if male or female, indicates a relating style, what we are attracted to (but be careful, Venus in 6th house might also indicate your affinity is directed to your petanimals for example; Venus does not have to be directed towards a human, even though in many cases it is).
Mars always shows HOW we get active to get what we want. Yes, even in women. (Additionally some women like to project their Mars onto men, too, but that does not mean they LOSE their Mars; it is still their own).

So a combination of Venus and Mars in a synastry is always a Yin and Yang-aspect, which shows great attractin in itself, especially in conjuntion or opposition.

But I see where our different approach comes from, Vapor.
You put the main emphasis on the signs (Taurus - Taurus), I put the main emphasis on the planets themselves and their symbolism (Venus-Mars).

Thanks for putting up your theory. I think it shows just how multilayered people and their relationships are. Maybe there is no "easy" method to access that.

posted May 01, 2010 08:59 AM         

I personally have a Libra Moon and Cancer Venus. I do not at all in any way like for my females to act Aries or Capricornian in any way (I like Cap energy though, just not so much in the Moon/Venus areas).

I have a Gemini Sun and Virgo Mars. I personally like Libras, Aquas, Gems, Leos, Sag, and Sometimes Aries Sun women; when it comes to sun signs. For Mars, I don't care what sign it's in, just as long as the woman is NOT agressive, combative, rebellious, domineering, impatient, or mean, I'm cool.

I have the Venus conjunct Mars double whammy with two women I know and let me tell you, I am HIGHLY attracted to them physically and I know for sure one of the women is attracted to me just the same.

I also know one woman who I have an exact Sun conjunct Mars double whammy and the physical attraction is a much more primal and intrusive (in a good way lol) than the Venus conjunct Mars I've experienced.

Then, there's one woman whom I share all the traditionally linked aspects with. I'm a Gem Sun, Libra Moon, Gem Merc, and Cancer Venus. She has a Libra Sun, Gem Moon, Libra Merc, and Scorpio Venus. We both have conjunct Ascendants in Virgo. Our angles all are conjunct.

I know her but not well enough to guage her personality. I'm VERY MUCH physically attracted to her and I do see some things about her that I like and can see those astrological influences.

But the thing is, these are MY experiences. They might be different for the next dude. My chart is very easy and has trines and conjunctions and sextiles. Not too many squares and oops are in my chart. So in turn, I prefer a woman who also has an easy chart. For me, squares and opps are usually disharmonious (opps to MUCH lesser degree, for me it's hit or miss with them). The only square I can tolerate is a Sun square and when that's present, it must be accompanied by lots of easy and harmonious aspects between the other planets.

As far as my past, my father was NOT present in my upbringing. My mother was the main provider. I do NOT want to sit back and let my woman take care of me; BUT, if she makes a super large amount of money and asks of me to be a stay at home dad, it's something I could do as long as she and I are on the same page and I don't feel she would think less of me if such situation occured. I still wouldn't become passive Paul in such situation either. The point is, I could do it. I'm not one of those guys that have hang ups about the woman making more than me. As long as it's not thrown in my face or she doesn't think less of me, the more money she makes the merrier lol. Also, I can flip it and say that I'm more attracted to woman who are like my Moon and Venus combo.

My mom and I have conjunct Moons in Libra. I never really took much from her or my father (he want there but was in my life from afar) growing up. I always had my own ideas. I always went with what was most comfortable to me.

Bottom line of what I'm trying to say is I believe it all depends on the individual. I think a good look at the natal chart will tell you much about what an individual might look for or want in a partner. And even then you must take into account free will, which takes us out of the realms of astrology.

I'll elaborate a little more later this evening.

posted May 01, 2010 10:14 PM         

I want to reply *properly* and I would be rushed now -- I'm doing lots today and have to finish an assignment as well -- so I'll reply tomorrow!

posted May 02, 2010 01:38 AM         

quote:

---

First of all: is it even true that the messages we received from Mum and Dad are received through our planets?
Or more importantly, is it true that we incorporate and COPY these rules in all cases?

Well I know many friends who actually made a deliberate decision to NOT repeat the roles they have met in their parents.

---

Very good point! But would this come under free will? I mean each of us has a chart and maybe some of these messages are pre-learnt, but they are not set in stone. More like guidelines?

Sometimes I wonder about that though.. because since astrology does work for a majority of people - I'm just wondering how much leeway we actually have.. to change things.

Maybe a person is born with particular traits that develop in time (so their chart is already there and it is in no way connected to experiences they have or their parents)... OR... Maybe - on the other hand, the people & experiences surrounding the person -- mold them in a round about way. In your mum's case maybe what "molded" her was a strong desire to be the *opposite* of her mum.

There are many possibilities you are right - I was throwing this out there because I wanted to know whether it works practically in people's lives.

So for instance --- whether being an Aquarius Moon and Capricorn Venus... you had adverse experiences with Aqua Sun & Mars... OR Cappy Sun and Mars? I know that there is always an attraction with those conjunctions -- but I'm wondering if you have also noticed friction..

And -- if you were to compare that to... your interaction with Leo Sun and Mars... and... Cancer Sun and Mars --- which ones seem *easier* or -better- in your friendships-relationships with men?

I know I am asking about the signs again - but obviously it would be better if all of those were in aspect by degree..

quote:

---

My Mum has Moon and Venus in Virgo. And as a mum herself she has VERY much relied on her Moon and Venus position, even though she never experiencd the typical Virgo-qualities through her Mum.

---

Could it be that the Moon (and the Sun for that matter) do not show particulars about the parents' personality - but rather more big-picture things about their lives while you were growing up?

With my own mother.. She is a Leo with Gem Moon, Libra Venus and Scorp Mars. She is nothing like Capricorn as a person - nor have I ever interpreted her personality or behavior as "earthy".

It's interesting because my ex bf (also a Capricorn Moon) -- his mum was Gemini Sun and Leo Moon.. lol And she was pretty similar to my mum personality wise. I think that is a coincidence though.

But in any event -- neither of their personalities is/was Capricornian.

However, the setting and overall situation when we were growing up gave us a particular picture.

I have never perceived my mum as cold in any way - or harsh or nagging (like Cap Moon interpretations tell you) -- But I did get an overall picture of "My mum puts her career/work first because she *has to*" -- due to financial difficulties.

My ex bf's mum was similar. Because of the situation when he was growing up -- she worked two jobs, she was always exhausted and he did not see her all that much. He has a good relationship with his mum as I do -- things change in time.. but back then she was not really "available" due to circumstance and work..

Do you see this relating to your mum's moon at all? Was there something Virgonean about your grandmother's circumstances -- when your mum was growing up?
For example if she was working as a nurse and your mum heard a lot about this job growing up -- that could be Virgo-like..
It doesn't necessarily have to be a personality thing.

quote:

---

The same goes for me. Moon is in Aquarius, but I have never really experienced my Mum as Aquarius-like.

---

OK - I wanted to ask some questions.. going along with what I said before about the "overall picture".

Was your mum involved in some sort of humanitarian work -- or maybe involved in particular charities that you heard about? Did she have many friends who came over, from many different backgrounds/nationalities? Did she usually teach you to put your friends first (so to be somewhat selfless -- the opposite of egotistical) -- and to always treat people with diplomacy and respect?

umm what else... I cant think right now -- sorry mental blank.. I will go on to your dad lol

quote:

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I did not REALLY experience him as a big Sagittarian, even though the difference between Sag and Aqua sometimes is difficult to see. And I definitely did not experience him as Neptunian (Mars conjunct Neptune in my chart).

---

You said you were the first to be educated in the family... But did you see your father as a rather intelligent and philosophical man? Did he like to write or watch things that were historical and political in nature? Did he sometimes become passionately involved in political causes? Did he ever travel while you were growing up or did he ever take you traveling with him? Does he have a foreign accent and a different background to your mum? Does he speak two or more languages? If not - is he very interested in other cultures-foreign cuisine - foreign languages - anything & everything foreign..

If you don't get a chance - it's ok if you do not answer all of that.. But I am just curious basically -- whether your parents may have fit these signs -- due to an *outer* coating... things they were doing.. or were involved in.. or their jobs.. rather than their *actual* personalities deep down.

quote:

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I AM my Sun (and Mars). Now in my case Sun is in 1st house and Mars conjunct my ASC - so we do act out the planets in our 1st house on our own more easily, even if they belong to the opposite Gender.
I never have acted like a Gemini in all my life though. *shrugs*

---

I am my Sun also.. well I think I am lol. But in a relationship, in particular, I am much more submissive/feminine and more like the opposite of my Sun.

quote:

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My Dad has Moon in Taurus and Venus in Aquarius - and he has never been anything like Scorpio-Moon or Leo-Venus. Taurus and Aquarius, that fits him really well. The slightly detached, yet stable and in a weird way affectionate personality.

---

It is interesting that your mum is a Scorpio Sun though.

First of all I just wanted to say I am referring in particular to the way we would interact in a relationship and what we believe the male and female *parts to play* are -- what feels most comfortable..

So to explain this a little.. Take your dad's Taurus Moon.

According to what I was saying earlier...

His Taurus Moon says:
"I Tauro Moon believe that women should be Taurean in some important way.. stable reliable, earthy, sensual.."

The logic in saying they may act like the "opposite" -- was that in order to attract this idea of their "perfect woman"... they would have to behave in particular ways.. So if their perfect woman is "submissive" -- they would have to taken on a more dominant role etc..

Now your mother's Sun (also according to my theory) would say:

"I Scorpy Sun believe that men should be Scorpionic in relationships in Some important way"

In order to attract such a man... she may act like the opposite-- i.e. Taurean..

So when your dad's Taurus Moon met your mum's Scorpio Sun... maybe there was a feeling of "wow this woman is very taurean in her relationship with me"... and her reaction "wow this man is very scorpionic towards me"

I'm not sure if that sounds too twisted :|
Let me know what you think!!

Also... Obviously one aspect only tells one particular side to the story.
They Scorpio Sun - Aqua Sun -- would tell another side to the story for example.

In my "theory" I am not saying that people will never pick certain placements in a long term commitment.. I am only saying that some things may be easy-nice-smooth-fulfilling... whereas other things may feel difficult-out of sync-a little unbalanced overall.

It's just that I've twisted that a little ^^ so that some of the traditional positive things are in the *other* box.. such as Sun-Moon conjunctions and Venus-Mars conjunctions.

quote:

---

There may also be instances where we "project" opposite gender planets onto other people, but they are still a part of us.

---

I tried to stir clear of the projection theory.

I am not really saying that as a woman I *project* my Sun and Mars etc..

I am trying to say that maybe each planet has a *statement* to make when it comes to gender roles.

So in your case for example you'd get the following statements:

Sag Sun: "I believe that men "should" be in some way Sagittarian. This seems like the "best" way for them to be. The men who make me most comfortable are open minded, funny, intelligent, philosophical, very accepting of other cultures and different beliefs & points of view -- and above all honest."

It is not a desire as much as a belief that this is simply the BEST way for a man to be/act.

Could you relate to this at all?

Aquarius Moon - "I believe that women should be well-educated about significant world issues and that they should put their mark on the world in a humanitarian way by helping out, through writing, activities, fund raisers etc.. The women who make me most comfortable are light hearter, a little detached, very friendly and diplomatic"

In your case it is a little confusing because your Sun in Sag and Moon in Aqua do not have hugely different messages -- both transpersonal signs and both focused on bettering the world and being more accepting.

So I guess this could mean that your views on the way men "should" behave and your views on the way women "should" behave -- are actually very similar.. The message is "all people should be more humanitarian, more concerned with others, more selfless and less selfcentered"..

Would you say that these are the kinds of people you would want in your life? ^^

OK now..

Capricorn Venus says:

"Sexually and romantically women should be dignified, they should have self-respect and they should be extra cautious and careful in choosing a long-term partner."

Sagittarius Mars says:

"Sexually and romantically men shoud be very forward, honest -- never ever play games of any sort -- they should make their intentions clear from the start."

Further... On a more personal level..

"If a man is not educated, intelligent and accepting oh all cultures, religions and beliefs -around the globe -- I simply could not bring myself to sleep with him or get close to him."

Would that make sense? Is a failure to be those things a *huge* black mark in your book?

Sorry to ask sooooo many questions lol
I am just trying to figure this out!!

posted May 02, 2010 01:45 AM         

Pisces sun (feminine)
---i'd be virgo-like, expecting him to be pisces-like in a serious relationship
Capricorn moon (feminine but can act masculine)
---expecting him to be cancer-like in a serious relationship
Capricorn venus (feminine but can act masculine)
---expecting him to be cancer-like romantically/sexually
Libra mars (masculine but can act feminine)
---i'd be aries-like, expecting him to be libra-like romantically/sexually

hmm,
pisces/cancer x2/libra,
well i'm really turned on by cancer sun men (opp my moon/venus), but never dated one, so this is funny. they are phenomenally sexy tho. yum. never dated a pisces tho i do find them attractive. libra men (my mars) are mostly v.sexy. have dated mostly aries (opp my mars).

what would work well by theory,

my moon/venus cap conj his moon/venus =
well i do find cap venus men quite attractive overall, moons too, overall i get on better with the venus though, since cap moon men sometimes treat me harshly and have problems getting close (i've moon sq pluto, so that squaring their moon in orb is enough to invite intense reaction, not v.kind, squaring their venus is sexy for them so its not as bad)

my sun/mars conj their sun/mars =
omg so f*****g yummy! more please

my moon/venus opp their sun/mars =
yes, true, when i'm the moon/venus as woman. if their moon venus as men is opposing my sun/mars, no i dont like that, i feel pushed to act in a certain way.

and what wouldn't,

my moon/venus opp their moon/venus =
huh, well theres attraction here but cancer moon/venus can get too gooey for me thats true, the cancer venus is particularly....invasive. they were v. *grabby* needy and i wasn't into that, gross.

my sun/mars opp their sun/mars =
i like this one i don't feel like we have clashing views on male behavior, my fave of this is his sun opp my mars by sign or aspect, mars in aries opp mine is hot, their mars in virgo opp my sun, omg sexy, their virgo sun opp mine, there was intrigue there but it didnt work, funny enough his libra venus was conj my mars, but it didn't get off the ground.
Libra's another lazy venusian

my moon/venus conj their sun/mars =
no. there's no spark. i feel oppressed, under lock and key.
edit, but *their* moon/venus conj my sun i enjoy -v.much-
their moon conj my mars i like a lot, but their venus conj my mars, no.

posted May 02, 2010 07:28 AM         

" you had adverse experiences with Aqua Sun & Mars... OR Cappy Sun and Mars?"
No. Actually I only met guys with these placements I loved to bits.
The Aqua placement on a more basic emotional compatible level; and I am insanely attracted to Cappy Suns and also Cappy Mars. It is almost ridiculous.
A little bit of friction is always there; but that is normal in Yin-Yang-relations. Men are not women, that is just a fact, so there are some differences. But I always found them to be ultra stimulating.
Sometimes the attraction - for me- was a bit too much to handle though. Not that I disliked them, but the intensity grew very strong for me. But my Pluto squares my Venus, so all Suns and Mars on my Venus will also activate my Pluto.

There is also one thing with Sun and Mars in Cappy guys - I may not always like that, but I really admire them. Admiration isn`t something that is usually a way of relating to other people, because it implies a certain hierarchy. But in the case of Cappy guys, it is there.

"And -- if you were to compare that to... your interaction with Leo Sun and Mars... and... Cancer Sun and Mars --- which ones seem *easier* or -better- in your friendships-relationships with men?"
I don`t meet that many Leos and Cancers. Thank God.
Well, I knew some Leo men, and there was a detached friendly vibe between us, but without any feeling of closeness, and no real interest to deepen the relationship.
But please do not get me started on Cancers.
I have known some, and it just does not work. I don`t like them. (generalization I know, but I am only speaking from these I know).
I have some form of compassion for them, but no real affinity.
actually Leo and Cancers are like a total different world from mine, without real bridges between them.
Along with Geminis, these two signs are the ones that I just do not connect to.

"Could it be that the Moon (and the Sun for that matter) do not show particulars about the parents' personality - but rather more big-picture things about their lives while you were growing up?"
Yes, I think this would figure in. Even though I don´t think it will be true for everyone to 100%.
I actually think maybe the Moon relates to the "emotional athmosphere" we were sensing during our childhood.

" Was there something Virgonean about your grandmother's circumstances -- when your mum was growing up? "
Hmm, not sure. Of course she was a housewife. But she was having 5 children at the age of middle 20 I think. And it was not usual at that time for a wife to stay at home.

"For example if she was working as a nurse and your mum heard a lot about this job growing up"
No, no nurse. Just being a housewife and mother.

"Was your mum involved in some sort of humanitarian work -- or maybe involved in particular charities that you heard about?"
Yes.
But that is not exclusively a trait of Aquarius. Piscean influence or even Sag influence could be at play, too.
Well, actually she has Uranus in 1st house.

"Did she have many friends who came over, from many different backgrounds/nationalities?"
No.

" Did she usually teach you to put your friends first (so to be somewhat selfless -- the opposite of egotistical) -- and to always treat people with diplomacy and respect? "
Yes. Or actually she taught us to see ourselves through the other`s eyes, and then treat them as we wanted to be treated.
To be compassionate and understanding to the point of sacrificing our own will. Which again could also be a Neptunian trait.
(remember: ruler of my 4th house is conjunct Neptune).

"But did you see your father as a rather intelligent and philosophical man?"
Intelligent - yes. Philosphical - not so much.
He has much air in his chart, including Sun, Venus and Jupiter in Aquarius, MC in Gemini, Mars in Libra. Merury exact trine ASC. He IS intelligent.

" Did he like to write or watch things that were historical and political in nature?"
Hmm, well, he isn`t opposed to it, but not nessecarily keen on them.
Not so much political, more socially and humanitarian interested. He is still working for a caritative organisation.

posted May 02, 2010 08:49 AM         

" Did he ever travel while you were growing up or did he ever take you traveling with him?"
No.

" Does he have a foreign accent and a different background to your mum?"
No.

"Does he speak two or more languages?"
Well, everyone in Germany speaks at least 2 languages. But he doesnt speak extraordinary many.
BUT whenever he is in a foreign country, he has a natural knack to communicate with them. I think he is naturally skilled at languages.

" If not - is he very interested in other cultures-foreign cuisine - foreign languages - anything & everything foreign.. "
Yes, but not because it is foreign. He is interested in culture and landscapes and in getting to know different things.

But again, this can be said for many signs.

"I am my Sun also.. well I think I am lol. But in a relationship, in particular, I am much more submissive/feminine and more like the opposite of my Sun. "
Well, I am not.

"It is interesting that your mum is a Scorpio Sun though."
His Moon is actualy oposing her Sun by 1 degree. He loves it I guess with his Moon being placed in his 8th house and having a Venus-Pluto opposition natally.
Anyway, of course the oppostion is a very strong aspect. I do not doubt it. And it is a very energetic combination of a Yin and a Yang planet. They are very attracted to each other, but there is also a lot of friction as well.
In their arguments he comes across as much calmer and more stable, while she can get pretty mean sometimes. Or giving him the treatment of silence. She is VERY emotional. And sometimes hot and cold (which actually may be something coming from her mother. Sun rules her 4th house, btw).

""I Tauro Moon believe that women should be Taurean in some important way.. stable reliable, earthy, sensual..""
Hmm, I do not think he thinks that way.

""I Scorpy Sun believe that men should be Scorpionic in relationships in Some important way"
Actually no. Definitely not.
She actually prefers the slight detachmant and that my Dad is so stable and able to calm her down when she gets really emotional.
Almost like he is a rock for her.

"uch as Sun-Moon conjunctions and Venus-Mars conjunctions."
I believe that sometimes Sun-Moon and Venus-Mars conjunctions are felt different (and not all that positive), but I think that depends on each person`s natal. And as a "basic rule" Yin-Yang connections are a sign of attraction. Of course this can be modified through natal placements.
I also think t hat people who have natally several Venus-Mars constellations (like me: Venus in 1 and ruler of 7 in 1 are both Venus-Mars constellations) may be more in tune and react more strongly to these. It is something they "expect" in a relationship.
Of course you still have to check the other planets aspecting the Venus-Mars conjunction.

"I am not really saying that as a woman I *project* my Sun and Mars etc.."
But if you say that women feel that men *should* be a certain way, then this is just one step ahead of actually projecting.
BTW I think we all project certain things, and it is not a bad thing. It is actually one of the reasons we fall in love (not the only one).
Have you ever read Jung`s theory on this? Banzhaf and Haebler use this in their books. It is intersting (actually it is the old astrological thought that we seek the planets of our opposite gender in potential lovers - so it is somewhat in tune with your theory).

"Sag Sun: "I believe that men "should" be in some way Sagittarian. This seems like the "best" way for them to be. The men who make me most comfortable are open minded, funny, intelligent, philosophical, very accepting of other cultures and different beliefs & points of view -- and above all honest."
Well, I don´t believe anyone SHOULD be that way. But I get along better with people (men and women) who are.
Ruler of 7th house is in Sagittarius conjunct ruler of 9th house (two constellations that say JUPITER).

"It is not a desire as much as a belief that this is simply the BEST way for a man to be/act. "
No, it isn`t necessarily the best way for people to act, I just get along with these traits.
I also like nurturing, caring, compassionate people, people who are organised, reliable, creative, enthusiastic and so on. It just happens that I share some of these traits you mentioned, so that there is already a common ground.

"I believe that women should be well-educated about significant world issues and that they should put their mark on the world in a humanitarian way by helping out, through writing, activities, fund raisers etc.."
Hmm, again I don´t believe that anyone *should* be anything. That would be like pressing my norm on other people. But what is right for me, may not be right for others.
I certainly admire people who are like what you mentioned, but it is not a trait I demand of anyone. I am not even doing that myself. Not in a bigger social context at least.

"The women who make me most comfortable are light hearter, a little detached, very friendly and diplomatic""
Yes, thoese qualities make me comfortable in men and women. But not totally, detached and lighthearted is nothing I could contribute to my friends. They are openminded and all, but not detached at all. Actually one of the things I like most in friendship is loyalty, respect, emotional engagement and honesty, even though in a non-posessive way.

"So I guess this could mean that your views on the way men "should" behave and your views on the way women "should" behave -- are actually very similar.."
They are. And please, no "shoulds" for me.
My Aquarius Moon is getting restless if she hears that word.

"The message is "all people should be more humanitarian, more concerned with others, more selfless and less selfcentered"..
Not necessarily. Love others as you love yourself. That would be enought. Cause I really think in order to be able to care for and love others genuinely, you have to love and respect yourself. Love can`t come from a place of selfloathing.
But as a result, yes, I think people are pretty selfcentred. But I am so myself. Not so obvious egoistical like some others, but I am very greedy when it comes to sharing my time.

"Would you say that these are the kinds of people you would want in your life? ^^"
Seriously, who wouldn`t?
I mean those are all pretty positive traits you listed. I do not know people who would be really opposed to them. lol

""Sexually and romantically women should be dignified, they should have self-respect and they should be extra cautious and careful in choosing a long-term partner."
No, women "should" not be that way. I am that way, but I see that other women are different and as long as they are happy, I am okay with it. They do not have to live my life and I don´t have to live theirs.
I am extra cautious, but it is not always a positive thing.

"Sexually and romantically men shoud be very forward, honest -- never ever play games of any sort -- they should make their intentions clear from the start."
Hmm, I like honest men. I also like Sagittarians. But actually I think, making their intentions clear from the start, would actually be a turn off for me and driving me into my shell.

""If a man is not educated, intelligent and accepting oh all cultures, religions and beliefs -around the globe -- I simply could not bring myself to sleep with him or get close to him."
Intelligence, communicative sckills, tolerance and openness are important things for me, yes, but not just in terms of sexual partners.
But having said that, yes I think I do need that in a partner, or I wouldn´t be attracted to him.
Ruler of 7th house in Sagittarius conjunct ruler of 9th house.
But it is not enough to make me attracted.

posted May 04, 2010 08:10 PM         

I'm glad GG created a thread dedicated to you because you really have a wealth of astro-knowledge and I always learn a lot from your posts.

quote:

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Personally I think that the Moon reflects our inner emotional core. On top of being a personality trait of course this emotional "makeup" has been influenced by our childhood experiences, including experiences with our parents, especially our mother, since she was the first person we ever had an emotional (and physical) bond, too, and we HAD to rely on her for nurturing in order to survive.

---

I like the way you explained this. That makes so much sense.

quote:

---

The Aqua placement on a more basic emotional compatible level; and I am insanely attracted to Cappy Suns and also Cappy Mars. It is almost ridiculous.
A little bit of friction is always there; but that is normal in Yin-Yang-relations.

---

I am like you - attracted to Sun or Mars conj my Venus.. It's just that I find the friction a bit *much*.. OK - Maybe more than a bit LOL

------

The most friction for me is Aries Venus actually (at least four different men with this placement came into my life).

Because Aries is a personal sign.. the thought process goes in terms of "should" ... i.e. "women should be this or that -- what *I*, Mr. Aries Venus - want them to be" and they can actually become aggressive if you are not the way they think you "should" be.. I have a friend who has also JUST had this experience with a male (Aries Venus) who was preaching her about the politics of sex and how women *should* -- again *should* -- be more sexually forward.. since they were given equal political rights.. and they cannot expect men to chase them.

HOW the two things are related is beyond me... BUT this guy is not the first Aries Venus I am hearing that story from.

With my Venus in Taurus I am not what they are looking for romantically because I'm not aggressive and I don't initiate sexual things. With my Sun in Aries - again -- I felt like I am not what they are looking for because I would prefer for the man to be the "chaser" and the "aggressive" partner... In my "turn ons" thread.. I think it was Leaping Lemur who has an Aries Mars and she feels the same way. I think Vertiver was similar as well (also Aries Mars).. I'm not sure exactly - I have to re-read that.

I think this is different with Transpersonal signs.. Transpersonal signs do not think in terms of "should" and everyone is accepted.. Diversity is embraced, not shunned.

I do feel this way myself.. because most of my chart is purely transpersonal energy - both sign & house. I made a mistake typing this to you -- because I had in mind the "personal style" ... Most of the people I asked about this are very personal - some social influence... but not many transpersonal-types... and as far as I can see -- they tend to think in terms of *should*.

-----------

OK - so I get the gist of what you are saying... Some things work for you.. Some do not work... and the whole theory seems arbitrary. It's possible you are right and there is no real pattern there! I'll see how this thread goes anyway.. if more people reply.

posted May 04, 2010 08:57 PM         

There were just a couple of points where we got cross-wired lol.. It's Merc retro

quote:

---

I personally have a Libra Moon and Cancer Venus. I do not at all in any way like for my females to act Aries or Capricornian in any way (I like Cap energy though, just not so much in the Moon/Venus areas

---

According to my theory.. You would be attracted to women who *are* Libran and Cancerian... and you would be put off by women who have Moon/Venus in Cap/Aries.

I think you misunderstood something here.

My point was that every planet has its own "sentence"... regarding what you would like romantically... Masculine planets refer to the behaviour of men and feminine planets refer to the behaviour of women.

So, in your case -- These would be the sentences --

Sun Gem says:
"I believe it is cool for men to take on a Gemini-role in a serious long term relationship." (In consequence.. since you are male you would take on this role).

A Gemini sun female would think the exact same thing. (In consequence.. since she is female she would behave in such a way so as to attract men who are "gemini-like" -- so she would behave in a more sagittarian way.. This was the theory..)

Your Moon - Libra says:

"I believe it is nice/great/easy energy -- for women to behave in a Libran way in a serious relationships"..

In order to attract these women you may act a little Aries-like -- on a purely emotional *moon* level.. That may sound weird.. But I thought in some cases -- it is *just* a logical reaction.. I think I can explain it better with your Venus.

So...

Venus in Cancer says:
"The women who are best for me in a romantic-sexual relationship -- it could be a short term one or a fling -- are the ones who are very feminine, a little fragile, submissive and sensitive/watery - like cancer"

Now... I was thinking OK so -- the guy wants THIS... BUT now what does he have to do in order to attract such a woman? If he was submissive and Cancerian *himself* -- he would not be able to attract her. They would both be *too* passive.. So I was thinking he would have to act a bit like the opposite - a bit "tougher", maybe fatherly - instead of motherly -- more like Capricorn - "the opposite" sign to Cancer (the mother figure).. in order to attract THIS type of woman.

Does that make sense at all, in your life?

quote:

---

I have the Venus conjunct Mars double whammy with two women I know and let me tell you, I am HIGHLY attracted to them physically and I know for sure one of the women is attracted to me just the same.

---

OK That is interesting... That def. does not work for my theory, if there is no friction.
Could you see yourself with either of them long-term?
Do you have any push-pull situations happening?

What I have in mind is something like.. her Virgo Venus wants you to be more messy - more laid back - more *lost* -- so that she has *something to FIX.. It might drive her nuts that you are already *just* perfect.

On the other hand your Virgo Mars might be more attracted to a woman who relies on him for practical things and tech support.. a woman he can "serve" in some way and feel useful.. but Virgo Venus is already highly self-sufficient and does not seem to require your help.

Maybe even on a sexual level.. there is a feeling that she wants to *serve* you and make you feel good.... while you would prefer to be the one *serving*.. You don't feel comfortable *receiving* physical affection (and compliments for that matter).. it makes you feel a little awkward. You are a great *giver* but a poor *receiver*. She is also like this in some way.. She feels awkward if she is not the one *working* and doing things FOR you.. rather than lying back... and letting YOU do things for her (whether in daily life or during sex).

Is that a possible cause of friction?
I had to improvise because I do not have enough personal experience with Virgo - Venus-Mars.

quote:

---

I also know one woman who I have an exact Sun conjunct Mars double whammy and the physical attraction is a much more primal and intrusive (in a good way lol) than the Venus conjunct Mars I've experienced.

---

According to my theory -- this is one of the *positive* aspects.. because both of the planets there are masculine.

So Sun in Gemini thinks men are at their best when they behave in a Gemini way.

Her Mars in Gemini agrees with you -- that this is the best way for men to be and it is what attracts her most in men.

On the other hand...

Sun in Virgo thinks men are at their best when they behave in a Virgonean way..

and your

Mars in Virgo agrees to that ^

The only difference is.. based on my theory -- the male *you* -- acts OUT this part.. whereas the female seems almost opposite.

So -- because she agrees with you, in the first instance that men who are gemini-like are FANTASTIC.. she may be a bit Sagittarian in behaviour in order to attract *you*

And also when it comes to Virgo -- she may be a bit Piscean in behaviour also in order to attract you.

quote:

---

My mother was the main provider. I do NOT want to sit back and let my woman take care of me; BUT, if she makes a super large amount of money and asks of me to be a stay at home dad

---

That's really interesting since you have a Libra Moon... Was this something significant in your life growing up?
What I mean by that is -- did you ever feel like your mum was very focused on her job and she was putting her job-career first?

-- not so much because she wanted to but because she had work over-time lotsss in order to maintain both of you.

If you felt this way ^^ then it seriously throws my theory off.

If you did not -- then maybe your experience of your mother was still more Libran in some way.. so the fact that she was the 'provider" was not the main thing about her.. not the *principal* way in which you saw her.. if that makes sense.

quote:

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Bottom line of what I'm trying to say is I believe it all depends on the individual. I think a good look at the natal chart will tell you much about what an individual might look for or want in a partner. And even then you must take into account free will, which takes us out of the realms of astrology.

---

Yes, I do agree with you.. Normally this is how I analyze charts as well -- keeping the things you mentioned, in mind.

posted May 06, 2010 11:51 PM         

quote:
I personally have a Libra Moon and Cancer Venus. I do not at all in any way like for my females to act Aries or Capricornian in any way (I like Cap energy though, just not so much in the Moon/Venus areas
According to my theory.. You would be attracted to women who *are* Libran and Cancerian... and you would be put off by women who have Moon/Venus in Cap/Aries.

True

I think you misunderstood something here.

My point was that every planet has its own "sentence"... regarding what you would like romantically... Masculine planets refer to the behaviour of men and feminine planets refer to the behaviour of women.

So, in your case -- These would be the sentences --

Sun Gem says:
"I believe it is cool for men to take on a Gemini-role in a serious long term relationship." (In consequence.. since you are male you would take on this role).

A Gemini sun female would think the exact same thing. (In consequence.. since she is female she would behave in such a way so as to attract men who are "gemini-like" -- so she would behave in a more sagittarian way.. This was the theory..)

Your Moon - Libra says:

"I believe it is nice/great/easy energy -- for women to behave in a Libran way in a serious relationships"..

In order to attract these women you may act a little Aries-like -- on a purely emotional *moon* level.. That may sound weird.. But I thought in some cases -- it is *just* a logical reaction.. I think I can explain it better with your Venus.

So...

Venus in Cancer says:
"The women who are best for me in a romantic-sexual relationship -- it could be a short term one or a fling -- are the ones who are very feminine, a little fragile, submissive and sensitive/watery - like cancer"

Now... I was thinking OK so -- the guy wants THIS... BUT now what does he have to do in order to attract such a woman? If he was submissive and Cancerian *himself* -- he would not be able to attract her. They would both be *too* passive.. So I was thinking he would have to act a bit like the opposite - a bit "tougher", maybe fatherly - instead of motherly -- more like Capricorn - "the opposite" sign to Cancer (the mother figure).. in order to attract THIS type of woman.

Does that make sense at all, in your life?

Not really my good friend!  I humbly have to disagree here!  I am myself.  I don't at all think I act Aries or Sagg-like when I attract women. 

I think the sensitive cancerian/libran women are put off by the Aries Cappy type.  They want someone to make them feel secure and stable, and in the case of the libra, someone patient and fair, ie the trine and sextile signs.  

quote:
I have the Venus conjunct Mars double whammy with two women I know and let me tell you, I am HIGHLY attracted to them physically and I know for sure one of the women is attracted to me just the same.
OK That is interesting... That def. does not work for my theory, if there is no friction.

The conjunct IS friction though!

Could you see yourself with either of them long-term?

I could see myself with one of them absolutely but the other, nah.  
 
Do you have any push-pull situations happening?

I don't know what u mean.

What I have in mind is something like.. her Virgo Venus wants you to be more messy - more laid back - more *lost* -- so that she has *something to FIX.. It might drive her nuts that you are already *just* perfect.

Thats where I have to disagree.  I think if it's in conjunct, trine, or sextile, the attraction happens easily and is comfortable.  If one acts like a square or to a lesser extent, an opp, the attraction wouldn't be so easy.  It would come with "baggage".

On the other hand your Virgo Mars might be more attracted to a woman who relies on him for practical things and tech support.. a woman he can "serve" in some way and feel useful.. but Virgo Venus is already highly self-sufficient and does not seem to require your help.

Which I like, hence the conjunct aspect :-)

Maybe even on a sexual level.. there is a feeling that she wants to *serve* you and make you feel good.... while you would prefer to be the one *serving*.. You don't feel comfortable *receiving* physical affection (and compliments for that matter).. it makes you feel a little awkward. You are a great *giver* but a poor *receiver*.

No, can't agree with any of that.  I like reciprocation plain and simple.

 She is also like this in some way.. She feels awkward if she is not the one *working* and doing things FOR you.. rather than lying back... and letting YOU do things for her (whether in daily life or during sex).

Is that a possible cause of friction?
I had to improvise because I do not have enough personal experience with Virgo - Venus-Mars.

No, not at all.  All the fun will be shared mutually.  You scratch my back, I scratch yours.  The conjunct, trine, or sextile means the way I treat her is harmoniously compatible with the way she wants it and vice versa.

quote:
I also know one woman who I have an exact Sun conjunct Mars double whammy and the physical attraction is a much more primal and intrusive (in a good way lol) than the Venus conjunct Mars I've experienced.
According to my theory -- this is one of the *positive* aspects.. because both of the planets there are masculine.

So Sun in Gemini thinks men are at their best when they behave in a Gemini way.

Her Mars in Gemini agrees with you -- that this is the best way for men to be and it is what attracts her most in men.

On the other hand...

Sun in Virgo thinks men are at their best when they behave in a Virgonean way..

and your

Mars in Virgo agrees to that ^

The only difference is.. based on my theory -- the male *you* -- acts OUT this part.. whereas the female seems almost opposite.

So -- because she agrees with you, in the first instance that men who are gemini-like are FANTASTIC.. she may be a bit Sagittarian in behaviour in order to attract *you*

If she acted like a Sag, I might not think of her romanticLly.  Cuz as soon as the sagg bluntness comes out, I'm off.  She'd be MUCH better off acting like a Mercurial Virgo.

And also when it comes to Virgo -- she may be a bit Piscean in behaviour also in order to attract you.

I can't agree with that one.  I don't act Sagg like.  I wouldn't want a woman acting like the opposite of who she really is.

quote:
My mother was the main provider. I do NOT want to sit back and let my woman take care of me; BUT, if she makes a super large amount of money and asks of me to be a stay at home dad
That's really interesting since you have a Libra Moon... Was this something significant in your life growing up?
What I mean by that is -- did you ever feel like your mum was very focused on her job and she was putting her job-career first?

No.

-- not so much because she wanted to but because she had work over-time lotsss in order to maintain both of you.

If you felt this way ^^ then it seriously throws my theory off.

Nope, don't feel that way lol

If you did not -- then maybe your experience of your mother was still more Libran in some way.. so the fact that she was the 'provider" was not the main thing about her.. not the *principal* way in which you saw her.. if that makes sense.

This I agree with!

quote:
Bottom line of what I'm trying to say is I believe it all depends on the individual. I think a good look at the natal chart will tell you much about what an individual might look for or want in a partner. And even then you must take into account free will, which takes us out of the realms of astrology.
Yes, I do agree with you.. Normally this is how I analyze charts as well -- keeping the things you mentioned, in mind.

But I thought I noticed some interesting patterns with this and I wanted to check with more people.

Cool!  I love to read about new theories and what not.

posted May 08, 2010 10:51 PM         

Anyway, I only read your bold, and I don't have time to read all the replies right now..
But, OK, for myself, this particular theory doesn't work out.
I have a Libra Moon, and I hate when guys "act" Aries-ish.
I much prefer to do the chasing myself.
I can't stand when men come on too strong, that will send me packing in a hurry!

This could have to do with me having an Aries Asc though.
Anyway, I have alot of Masculine in my chart, and, my longest relationships are with men who have alot of feminine.

I'm such a dude.

Now, reversing one of the things you said..
About Sun to Moon, I think it was..

My ex has a Sag Moon, and we have always had alot of fun together.
Probably too much fun!
When we aren't talking I tell my friends.. "I miss his Saggie Moon!"
There were just so many shared understandings.

His Venus is also in Sag.
So..
But then again so is mine.
That wasn't part of your theory, but I'm just thinking out loud here.

But I do agree very much when you said that alot has to do with childhood, experience, environment, etc..
Truly, I believe more in that in terms of human behavior than anything.

posted May 09, 2010 04:24 AM         

Other than that hmmmmm there's Juno at 16' Sag which makes YOU my perfect mate and Jupiter conjunct MC!

I wanted to mention it may work for you just a *little* because the conjunct Saggy Venus are perfect in this "theory" of mine.
Because according to this you would be playing our your Saggy Venus by being fiery and assertive in pursuit...
According to the "theory" both men and women with Saggy Venus will have the belief that Sagittarian traits are *great* in a female romantic partner... so The female Saggy Venus will play this out... and the male Saggy Venus will want to attract it.

Then there was the second part of the theory which I am starting to think was a seriously bad idea... where I was saying that in order for a man with Saggy Venus to attract this -saggy type- woman... he would behave in an opposite way... more gemini-like..

posted May 12, 2010 11:43 AM         

He is a Scorpio sun, and that always attracts me from jump street, the other stuff was icing on the cake.

Major motor mouth (umm, like myself) is a turn off to me.
I like the moody, broody, silent type.
I enjoy trying to figure out what someone is thinking (this for romance, not in friendships) versus them telling me every single thing.
Gotta have the mystery, you know?