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Author Topic:   Doing your Saturn!!
etherealenlightenment
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posted May 16, 2010 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
Hello. I was reading Anne Ortelee's Weekly Weather column the other day, and she mentioned that this week it is all about DOING OUR SATURN!

She also went on to mention that our "Saturn Lesson" will be reflected in our chart, specifically by the sign and house placement of the grouchy planet.

What house and sign is your Saturn in? For instance, I have Saturn in Capricorn in my 5h house, and cannot for the life of me figure out what that means! Does anyone also share this placement?

Please feel free to share your experiences

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ekf
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posted May 16, 2010 02:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ekf     Edit/Delete Message
I had a reading with her and she gave me some clues to the saturn story, but i'm still digging.

Though, she did say that my saturn story is strong in my chart, and is not necessarily that way in other peoples charts. I know her do your saturn in general refers more to the current saturn transit aside from any specific saturn story.

I have saturn in the 3rd in gemini, widely conjunct the south node (6°) , and square my sun in the 12th house and pluto in the 6th house.

Currently Saturn is transiting my 6th house, squaring my natal saturn so this story is alive and well.

Some key phrases:

- the story with the two dads that happened when I was 8 (i'd have to go back to the reading but I remember the 8 was a degree she'd calculated) where the words and actions didn't line up, or where there was a disconnect between things they said and then things that they did. Given that I have merc & jupiter conjunct in pisces in the 12th - she says that I intuitively know what people think because I see their souls and then I forgive their actions to get the love (moon in the 1st)..see below.

- a karmic family story to work out, something with my dad and or/sister

In terms of the natal: from what I've gleaned from my parents my father completely ignored me as a child and then my sister was born when i was 8 and he fell madly in love with her. I say from what I gleaned because in my head I was daddy's little princess but from what i've heard from everyone in my extended family he didn't give me the time of day. Perhaps when my sister was born that dichotomy became visibly apparent.

My mother also started having a nervous breakdown shortly after my sister was born, and my father was never around physically or mentally, and so I basically raised her. Apparently this is typical of saturn in the 3rd (which my sister has too).

I've been able to figure out the father story better than the sibling story - so I'm still working on that.

In terms of current transits, what I noticed (even before Anne told me) is that this past year has been about getting clear on my (bad) habits (sat in the 6th) in relationships and what it is that I do when I'm in them and to get them. Ironically there are many behaviors linked to that saturn story above and so that's what I've been working through right now.

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DD
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posted May 16, 2010 06:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
I have Regograde Saturni n Cancer in 8th house, exactly quinkunx Moon in Aquarius in 2nd house; some would consider the trine to Jupiter (6 degrees).
Saturn rules my 2nd house and is in 8th; Moon rules my 8th and is in 2nd.

I think "Doing my Saturn" has a lot to do with feelings of insecurity.

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Ami Ann
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posted May 16, 2010 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
Dear DD
Could you please elaborate on the details of the Saturn and moons and the houses.
This is my next step in the process of learning.
If you feel you want to, I would appreciate it very much.


Ami

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venus in gemini
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posted May 16, 2010 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus in gemini     Edit/Delete Message
I have Saturn in the 1st house. Seeing my own value was an issue. There was also a lot of fear going on, afraid of standing up for myself, for what I wanted or believed. Standing up for my self, acknowledging my worth. I guess my sense of self worth and value has been a struggle my entire life. That sense of "you're not doing it good enough". You have to do it better. If you do it "better", they will finally love you. Oh wait...that is my Saturn opposition Venus, and that is one of the other theme's of my life.

I think the articles at DK Foundation are interesting.

Here is what they say in their "Karma and New Directions" articles:

When Saturn is in House I there is karma arising from assertiveness. Past life experience has been characterised by either ruthless self-seekingness or a reluctance to undertake any kind of action to help self. Either way - and the position of the Moon will indicate which - there is a need in the current lifetime to focus upon the related issues of responsibilities to self and res­pect for the boundaries of others. People with Saturn in House I start life feeling vulnerable and inadequate. Frequently the sense of inferiority is rooted in dissatisfaction with their personal appearance. Negativity about self creates a sense of being unequal to the challenges, which present themselves, and to impotence and defeatism. For people with Saturn in House I self-worth and personal effectiveness are the two sides of the same coin: if they are to overcome the fearfulness they experience when confronting change in any form they first need to develop a more positive attitude to themselves.

And you said yours is in the 5th:

Saturn in the 5th House frustrates the creative expression and requires a person to be both industrious and self-aware if he is to release his powers. With Saturn in H5, blocks can manifest variously: as insufficient confidence to express self; as a weak sense of individuality; as a delay in finding a suitable mode of expression; as sexual inhibitions; as a difficulty in keeping sexual partners. Usually existential doubt about the spiritual validity of the separated self is at the root of the problem. The sign held by Saturn will give a clue as to the way the problem will manifest in the personality. When Saturn is near the cusp of H5 and in conjunction or opposition to Uranus and Pluto, this may signify some sexual traumas in childhood. This placement of Saturn tends to be found in charts where there is evidence that past life experience has been characterised by irresponsibility, especially in matters of sexual expression; or that self-centred behaviour had an adverse effect on others.

If people with Saturn in H5 work hard on their creative block the outcome can be achievement of the highest order.

Where this placement is responsible for difficulties in the conception of children, the problem frequently needs to be dealt with at the psycho­logical rather than the physiological level because infertility brought about by Saturn in H5 may be a psychosomatic condition, the root of which is fear or guilt about creating another being. This is frequently linked to the existential doubt outlined above.

And DD's is in the 8th:

Saturn in the 8th House indicates a karma arising from an insufficiently responsible attitude to the well being of partners or close associates. The sign, which Saturn occupies, together with the sign and house placement of the Moon will reveal the reality, which underpinned this lack of regard. People with Saturn in H8 are made to feel acutely vulnerable in situations of emotional and sexual intimacy and they are inclined to attract controlling, even bullying partners who remind them of their lack of responsibility. Co-dependent relationships which protract the cruelty and abuse are very common with this placement.

This placement of Saturn can make the lower astral plane very intrusive in a person's life through nightmares and even poltergeist experience.

They also have a whole section on "Turning Saturn Around".

http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/Articles1.htm

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DD
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posted May 16, 2010 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you, ViG,


"Saturn in the 8th House indicates a karma arising from an insufficiently responsible attitude to the well being of partners or close associates."
It seems to have been an issue in past lives.
Well, but today I feel extremely responsible for other people, especially if they are close. I sometimes do not welcome that, as it borders on feeling "guilty" even for things that I can`t influence.
As it is in Cancer, most of it is connected to my mother and maternal family.
There is a real conflict between these feelings of responsibility for the family (Cancer) and a simultaneous need of staying free, almost detached, doing my own thing when I want to (Aquarius).


"People with Saturn in H8 are made to feel acutely vulnerable in situations of emotional and sexual intimacy and they are inclined to attract controlling, even bullying partners who remind them of their lack of responsibility."
Hmm, vulnearable yes. Bullying partners, no.
Well, but I have had some close friends who were extremely emotionally manipulative. In some instances I actually had to leave the friendship, even though I did feel responsible for them. But at once point I had to realize that it was not in my power to "rescue" them.


2This placement of Saturn can make the lower astral plane very intrusive in a person's life through nightmares and even poltergeist experience. 2
mY dreams are strong, yes.
And I AM on guard as to ower astral planes, yes. I did have some poltergeist experiences, but nothing too horrible, nothing I could not handle.
But I do have to be careful. Neptune on ASC sais the same thing, too.

Ami,

2nd house has to do with the Self and how much you value yourSELF. In my case ther eis this really tight interconnection with the 8th house, which about transformations, life and death, sexuality and committed relationships.
It might explain my extreme carefulness and hesistancy when it comes to sexual relationships; and this hesistancy has its reason in a rather weak selfesteem, especially in regard to sexual-physical-intimate connections.
I guess the fact that the ruler of 2nd house is in Cancer in 8th house, also highlights family for me.


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electricmind
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posted May 16, 2010 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricmind     Edit/Delete Message
i've read the DK foundation site before.

unfortunately, it doesn't resonate with me. i have saturn in scorpio the 10th hosuse. i don't have any father issues. i grew up in a balanced, 2 parent home. my father was loving and involved with me and my siblings. both parents were protective and very present in every way.

according to my chart, i am a very saturnine individual. not only is saturn in the 10th house, i am capricorn rising with mercury, venus, jupiter and neptune all in capricorn. my sun is square saturn with an orb of 43 minutes, sun is in the second. and saturn is conjunct mars with a 4 degree orb.

maybe its the jupiter right on to of my ascendant that makes me feel so lucky. i mean i go through depressive phases just like everyone else. idk.

i feel like doing my saturn is just focusing on my career. its obvious in my chart that that is my calling and an important part of my self expression.

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DD
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posted May 16, 2010 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Saturn will only play an important part in the houses it is sitting in or ruling, or maybe indirectly through aspects to other houses.
So it makes sense that you feel it in career related things, if it sits in your tenth.

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electricmind
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posted May 16, 2010 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricmind     Edit/Delete Message
DD, i guess i don't understand or relate to the whole parental thing that 10th house interpretations usually talk about.

still figuring out how the sun saturn square plays out as well.

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GypseeWind
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posted May 16, 2010 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GypseeWind     Edit/Delete Message
I'm glad you made this thread, because this has been on my mind alot lately.

My Saturn is in Pisces/12th house.
I can understand about becoming more "Pisces-like," as I get older. Things don't matter so much to me any more as they once did. People just loving each other as much as possible is what I'm really interested in.
Kindness and empathy are very much a part of my interactions with others, at least, I try very hard to do that.
But the 12th house part does make it a bit muddy. If the 12th house is secrets, am I supposed to practice random acts of kindness without letting others know I did it? (I know it's more than just secrets, but that is what popped into mind)
Stuff like that confuses me.
AND, the node thing.
If we are supposed to veer toward our NNode as we grow, and away from our SNode, then I have two ideals sort of fighting each other, since my NNode is in Taurus.
I don't see much similiarities in Pisces and Taurus' traits.

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teasel
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posted May 16, 2010 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
Could my thinking about wanting to record good memories, in a book of some kind (with photographs, using a site like lulu.com), be an example of my 'doing' my Saturn in Cancer?

I was feeling upset the other night, scribbling away in my journal, when something hit me, that had occurred to me two years ago: I'm almost always venting into my journal, but I hardly ever record the good things, big or small. I try to keep up a gratitude journal - I have bits and pieces around the house, as well as online - but the venting seems to take precedence.

After that, I wrote about something that happened last September, when I was out with my family for the day - something that briefly pulled me out of a deeply depressive mode. I need to sit down and make a list of more things, however small, but I was also thinking of asking my mother to write a few things down, and then help me to put something together online, with the result being a hardbound book. I'd totally forgotten about Anne Ortelee talking about doing our Saturn. (My Saturn is in the 9th, squaring Jupiter in the 5th, and Pluto in the 11th.)

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etherealenlightenment
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posted May 16, 2010 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you, VIG!

GypseeWind, glad you like the thread

I really appreciate you adding the interpretation for Saturn in 5th house!

I've got to say, I do relate to most of what it said... about feeling a block creatively. This is true. So far in my life it has manifested in that I have been prevented from pursuing my creative interests. When I was younger, my mother would make me quit all the creative things I was doing as soon as I acquired any skill in that area. I started doing ballet when I was 6, had to quit when I was 7 because I was told that I didn't have the "body" for it (even though I'm now told that I have the perfect ballerina body), took up drawing, had to quit because it was too expensive, took up jazz for a year, had to quit because we moved, started martial arts, had to quit, took up painting, too expensive so I had to quit, took up singing for 2 years, had to quit because I was told by my mom that I would never make it, took up acting (my passion) but had to put it off because of economic reasons. So I DEFINITELY feel that block concerning my creativity. Also, I've found that it's really difficult for me to just sit down and do something creative. I can't explain it... it's just like some sort of irrational fear I have that what I create won't be any good.

Also, doesn't 5th house pertain to romance as well? I feel like maybe part of my Saturn in 5th house issues, is how I handle romance and relationships. I tend to "jump" into things head first without any thought, completely on impulse, and needless to say, it has gotten me into quite a bit of trouble in the past. This could just be my Venus in Aries causing mischief though .

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Got Gemini?
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posted May 17, 2010 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message
Hey guys, ive got 12th house Saturn in Leo. Nataly, Saturn is sextile my Sun/Merc conjunction. However, transiting Saturn is squaring my Sun/Merc and holy moly lemme tell you it's a real doozy.

I've always been an optimistic person as long as I remember. I mean, I've NEVER EVER been depressed, even through some seriously trying times. But good Lordy, this transit is really trying my optimism! I've never felt so down and gloomy in my life!

Please guys, help me understand how to "do my Saturn."

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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DD
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posted May 17, 2010 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Electricmind,

since most astrologers associate Saturn with being indicative of a "father"-figure, and Saturn is the natural ruler of 10th house, they transfer this meaning to the 10th house, too.

Also keep in mind that these things could only indicate how we "experience" our parents, not how they really ARE.


I haven`t found the 10th house to be indicative of the father though. Actually the two houses that seem to correlate more with the parents are the 4th (Moon-symbolism) and the 5th house (Sun-symbolism).

On the other hand I can understand how the Moon (mother) - Saturn (father) thing came about. Moon and Saturn are cyclically very closely connected, and they are complimentary.
Moon is the soft one, the receptive one, who receives and internalises energies that come from outwards, without differentiation at first.
Saturn is a planet of "individuation", structuring, differentiating us from other people, giving the "I" a form, whereas the emotional nature of Moon is rather "form-less" (except for Capricorn Moons probably).


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Ami Ann
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posted May 17, 2010 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you DD .I am getting it slowly but surely.
Everything is a blending of different energies and there are sooooo many

x o x Ami

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Ami Ann
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posted May 17, 2010 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
Great thread .
I have Saturn Retrograde conjunct the Ascendant in Scorpio.
Pluto( the chart ruler) is in Leo conjunct the MC.
I think my bad childhood is seen in Saturn conjunct Ascendant cuz the Ascendant is such a personal space(if I am seeing this right).
I feel my childhood intruded in to my personal space in such a way that it would have killed me if I did not have mitigating factors.
I think the mitigating factors were a Scorp Ascendant which can see below the surface to ultimate truths. Also, Scorp Ascendants will often have Grandmothers who rescue them which I did.
I think Pluto conjunct the MC was a mitigating factor in that I wanted to have a good reputation and be proud of who I was so kept myself from falling in to destructive things.
If anyone sees a flaw in my analysis ,please feel free to comment.
I want to learn Astrology more than be right

Ami

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Ami Ann
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posted May 17, 2010 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
Dear Ethereal
I want to take a stab at your Saturn in 5th with Cap on the cusp.
What hit me was that it might be hard for you to let loose and have fun.
This could include creativity which involves letting go of "yourself" and being free to go to a new place.
Capricorn keeps one tightly wrapped in the ego rather than transcending it which you must do even to even have fun.
In other words, you must let loose.
Anyone feel free to criticize my analysis ,as always

Ami

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etherealenlightenment
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posted May 17, 2010 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
DD, I think your theory about the Moon being the Mother (4th house) and the Sun being the Father (5th house) makes a lot of sense!!

In the description of Saturn in 5th house, it says that I'm supposed to have difficulty expressing my individuality... I think I did have this to a certain extent when I was still a child (meaning that it was very difficult to fit in and that I tried very hard to be what I thought people wanted me to be) but that is far from the case since I was about 15 years old. In fact, I find that I express my individuality almost TOO openly sometimes, shocking people. I do, however, have those "daddy issues" that electricmind could not really relate to in her Saturn in 10th house description. It's something that has always been part of my core, although quite painfully... So that definitely resonates with me. Also, my ex-boyfriend has Saturn in the 4th house (Mother), and his Mother left him when he was only 2 years old, and he has struggled with that loss ever since.

Thank you for the enlightening information
If anyone has any additional interpretations, or want to make corrections to mine, please feel free to do so!

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etherealenlightenment
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posted May 17, 2010 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
Ami,

Thank you for your interpretation!!

Well, I don't know... I don't think I have so much of an issue of "having fun" because anyone that you talk to that knows me, will tell you that I'm usually the life of the party lol... but it really just depends... most people I meet also say that I seem a lot older (old soul possibly?) and I tend to have fun the "mature" way. I do have a fear of losing control, so this definitely resonates with what you are saying. Even in high school, I would always be what I like to refer to as the "responsible partyer." I would drink, and I would socialize, but I would never let myself completely let go of that control... As soon as I felt the alcohol taking effect, I would stop. I never let myself get drunk (unlike the other irresponsible teenagers) around people that I did not know extremely well. Primarily, this was for safety reasons. I didn't want to put myself in situations where guys could take advantage of me physically. I never experimented with narcotics of any kind either, nor did I have any desire to. I'm not sure if that goes along with what you're saying or not. I also have Saturn trine Sun and Saturn sextile Mars, don't know if that adds to it.

Also, just realized that my Saturn is Retrograde! How would that modify things?

Thanks again!

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Ami Ann
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posted May 17, 2010 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
Maybe my bud, DD ,will come to my rescue.Perhaps the trine and sextile modify my explanation or perhaps my explanation is all
wet

x o Ami

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etherealenlightenment
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posted May 17, 2010 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
NO, no, no, Ami! I didn't mean it like that!

I don't want you to think that your interpretation is wrong! It's not... I'm just trying to figure out why the normal Saturn in 5th house description doesn't resonate with me...

I did really appreciate you trying to help met out, though!

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Ami Ann
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posted May 17, 2010 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
It is OK, Ethereal. I am a learner taking stabs in the dark at times.


x o x o Ami

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Benedict Moon*
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posted May 17, 2010 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
I've read the 12th house saturn interpretation on DK before and it made alot of sense. I really do hate the idea that life could be random and meaningless and my parents aren't exactly defeatist, but they never had a very optimistic view of the outside world, explaining why I wasn't allowed to do much in my youth. Though with the way humanity is (if we can call it such) who can blame them for feeling that way?

All in all, this placement feels like an emotional ball and chain. *sigh* How do I 'do' my retrograde Saturn in Sag in the 12th? Having faith? Or is it another one of those 'we're all one' themes?

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DD
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posted May 17, 2010 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
The ruler of my 5th house is in Capricorn squaring Pluto.

And I was always like you described, t he moment I start feeling alcohol effecting me, I would stop completely.

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maira
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posted May 17, 2010 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maira     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I've read the 12th house saturn interpretation on DK before and it made alot of sense. I really do hate the idea that life could be random and meaningless and my parents aren't exactly defeatist, but they never had a very optimistic view of the outside world, explaining why I wasn't allowed to do much in my youth. Though with the way humanity is (if we can call it such) who can blame them for feeling that way?

All in all, this placement feels like an emotional ball and chain. *sigh* How do I 'do' my retrograde Saturn in Sag in the 12th? Having faith? Or is it another one of those 'we're all one' themes?


Hi!
I personally think it's... both My saturn is also retro in the 12th, conjunct Jupiter, in Libra. It's really hard to explain, I've read so many books and articles on spirituality, and it finally makes sense "inside" me, but I still can't explain it.

Just keep the faith like you said, and know that in a way we are all one. There are no coincidences, and there is a master plan. At least that's what I think

There's another problem associated with Saturn in the 12th, in my experience, or maybe it's something that's related to Saturn in general : running away from responsibility. Don't. Face whatever problems you have, because they seldom - if ever - go away on their own. Face them and solve them, but also know when something is out of your hands and let it go. (...it's the famous prayer "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.")

Hugs,
Maira.
(...going through her 1st saturn return )

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