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Author
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Topic: NEWBIES: Pay Attention.
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Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 5819
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2010 07:10 PM
  
"As for Pluto being demoted, I don't think Pluto cares. Pluto does not need to be out there with a title as a planet to continue doing his work. Of all the planets, perhaps it is the only one that actually loves operating in the dark."I think "being in the dark" could be a Pluto thing.
It was discovered while looking for Planet X which based on the thought that another planet accounted for the perturbations of Uranus' orbit,and so it was thought to be that planet. Pluto was thought to be as large as our Earth until its moon,Charon was discovered in 1978. Then Pluto was realized not to be Planet X because it was way to small to have an effect on Neptune and Uranus (it is much smaller than Earth's Moon),and so astronomers started looking for Planet X again.
It was thought to be the only object that orbits beyond Neptune, but another transneptunian object was discovered in 1992. In the 1990's, the astronomers discovered that there were errors in the calculation of Neptune's mass which meant that there was no need to look for Planet X because of no factual basis for it. However, there are astrologers that use Transpluto in charts and believe that it has significant astrological influence. Stuff like this makes me wonder if Forer/Barnum Effect is a factor in some astrologers thinking objects in our chart work and that you can find significance in anything. Just look at the hypothetical points that the Uranian Astrologers use.
Then as astronomers kept finding more transneptunians including some that orbit like Pluto (3:2 orbital resonance with Neptune) which are known as plutinos. Now over 1,000 transneptunian objects are discovered. There may be tens of thousands of transneptunian objects with many more located in a hypothetical Oort Cloud which Sedna is believed to belong to.
Pluto and Charon are actually a binary dwarf planet system. Charon is actually Pluto's twin.
It would make sense to include Charon's symbolism too. Charon was the ferryman of the Underworld in Greek mythology.
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Raymond
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 8734
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2010 07:17 PM
I share my birthday with Chairman Mao. I'm so dangerous. Saturn in the 1st, too!  IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 5819
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2010 07:19 PM
"I also thought it was interesting that Pluto now is in Capricorn, the opposing position of its discovery.
Even though it feels a bit "threatening" to me."It's in the sign of its South Node.
Pluto's South Node is in Capricorn. Things should get very interesting when Pluto conjunct its South Node. ------------------
Raymond Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind. http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 1735
From: USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2010 07:19 PM
^^^ So Charon as the ferryman would be necessary for Pluto to bring things and people into the underworld. I need to look up Charon in my chart. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 5819
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2010 07:23 PM
Pluto's perihelion (the point of the orbit closest to the Sun) is in Scorpio.Western Astrologers happened to give Pluto's perihelion sign for Pluto to rule over.
I am very sure that they were aware of that as astronomers. Pluto's aphelion (the point of the orbit furthest from the Sun) is in Taurus.
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Raymond Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind. http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 5819
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2010 07:31 PM
"HITLERsun 0' Taurus Isn't that a critical degree?" I am not sure but Hitler's Sun was greatly modified
Sun in 00'48 Taurus
conjunct Makemake in 1'56 Taurus
Makemake is one of the transneptunian dwarf planets. It's the 3rd largest dwarf planet behind Eris and Pluto. It's larger than transneptunian dwarf planet,Haumea. It's named after the Rapanui Fertility Creation God.
Astrologers wouldn't have known about that conjunction until after Makemake's discovery in March 2005.
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Raymond
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog IP: Logged |
iQ
Moderator Posts: 4913
From: Lyra
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 05:49 AM
Absolutely Glaucus , without the modification, no 0 Taurus would have attempted what Hitler it.Hi Acoustic,
Maybe you are the light side of Mao's dark side?  Hi Belage
Yes, Pluto would not mind at all working in the dark, nor does he care whether anyone bothers about the true rulership of Aries.
In the 6 decades or so that this theory has been put out, less than 800 Astrologers only accept Pluto to rule Aries, and today this number is probably less than 100. It wont matter much except in the case of a few Aries Ascendants/Suns who mistakenly search for afflicted Mars whereas they should be looking at afflicted Pluto to solve their problems. As far as interpretations go, it is quite harmless to consider Pluto as ruling Scorpio or Mars as ruling Aries because Scorpio is the Mate Sign of Aries in and Mars is the lower Octave of Pluto/Aries.
If by chance you find a chart of someone with Mars in 19 Scorpio, you will get further insights on this theory. IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 7072
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 06:21 AM
The transpersonal astrology in Germany considers both rulerships. I donīt think they follow the mathematical astrology though. Their reasoning is that if we accept Mars as co-ruler for Scorpio, then we would have to accept Pluto as co-ruler for Aries, too.IP: Logged |
iQ
Moderator Posts: 4913
From: Lyra
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 07:02 AM
I think the Transpersonal German Schools of thought played a part in Tobey's mathematical theory. Note that two unseen planets exist in the mathematical theory as well.IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 7072
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 07:05 AM
IQ,I doubt that the transpersonal school of astrology played a role in Tobey developing his theory on mathematical astrology.
This astrological school I am talking of has been founded in the Eightie`s of the last century, so it is not even 30 years old.
So I think if there was a conscious connection, it may have been Tobey influencing the founder of that school. I donīt know that though. Since we have Ceres and Pluto, I vote for the next planet to be Proserpina.  IP: Logged |
Winged Leo
Knowflake Posts: 396
From:
Registered: Jan 2010
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posted May 25, 2010 10:51 AM
If Pluto is the actual ruler of Aries, then I'm much more Plutonian than I realized! My Sun is in Aries, and my Moon/Mercury conjunction is in the 10th (House of Scorpio) opposing Pluto. Pluto also squares my Ascendant. Thanks iQ, interesting insights. Waters of Mars (Scorpions?) is an anagram of "Masters of War" !! But if we lexigram this phrase, we can also get "Rams Are Masters of War". In Tarot, the 13th trump is the Death card ruled by Scorpio, yes but when we reduce the number 13 to a single digit, we get 4 and the 4th card is The Emperor which is linked to Mars. Anyway, I liked the idea of using both Mars and Pluto as rulers of Aries. I have Mars in Scorpio, why especially a Scorpio Mars at 19 degrees? IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 7072
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 12:10 PM
I have always seen Mars and Pluto being two sides of the same coin; both are dealing with transformation (well, "making something happen" as the Rams usually like to do, usually leads to the old being transformed into something new). But they do it in different ways. Mars being more direct and offensive about it, everyone is recognizing the warrior in them.
Pluto on the other hand is just as much a warrior / fighter / transformer as Mars is, but operates more in the dark, from a place, where he is not easily recognized.
Almost like Mars is the "light" side (very visible) and Pluto represents the "dark" side (almost invisible) of that same coin "transformation".
IP: Logged |
iQ
Moderator Posts: 4913
From: Lyra
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 12:36 PM
Hi DD,
I thought there was a movement in the 1950s ?
Hmmm.... Tobey's book was published in the 1970s. Hi Winged Leo,
19 Scorpio is the Node of Mars. Tobey studied many charts of women with Mars close to 19 Scorpio because if Mars ruled Scorpio, then the effect of Mars on 19 Scorpio would exponentially increase symptoms of the true Nature of Scorpio. And true to his hypothesis, he did find very strong co-relations. The best case of Sun conj Mars exact in 19 Scorpio is documented in his book. A lady who was a crack-shot, running a gun store, bedding any man she likes, yet married to a Sun conj Saturn in Scorpio guy with whom she had half a dozen kids. He cheated on her once and she chased him with a gun, confronted him, shot him and deliberately missed to create fear in him etc etc etc. And after crashing her car and surviving fractures, she went to Tobey for an astrological consultation!
Those were the kind of charts that Tobey studied, not the standard cases that high profile seminar Astrologers use to beat around the bush. The guy even worked with Feds to nab a spy using accurate Neptune transits, and in one case helped nab a psycho by using an Astrological Transit and a crazy Psychic's vision together. I made notes of Tobey's insights, will put together a full package when I get the advanced astrology material ready. IP: Logged |
Winged Leo
Knowflake Posts: 396
From:
Registered: Jan 2010
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posted May 25, 2010 01:57 PM
"I made notes of Tobey's insights, will put together a full package when I get the advanced astrology material ready."I'm looking forward to it! IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 8734
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 03:20 PM
quote:
conjunction is in the 10th (House of Scorpio)
That's Capricorn's house. The 8th is Scorpio's. IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 7072
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2010 03:31 PM
Well, there is still a debate going on about this.I think Tobey was the one who published a different counting of the houses, beginning with Leo as 1st house and then Cancer as 2nd house and so on.
Personally I still stick to the traditional system, though, even though some people think it`s a lie, and was invented only to manipulate us.
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GemBird82
Knowflake Posts: 845
From: Female bird from France
Registered: Feb 2014
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posted June 25, 2015 12:05 AM
~ More of the same, very valuable thread.
Innovative about rulerships for some minority, perhaps annoying for the majorities and a "way to re-discover some facts" for others.
IP: Logged |
GemBird82
Knowflake Posts: 845
From: Female bird from France
Registered: Feb 2014
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posted June 25, 2015 12:10 AM
~  IP: Logged |
aleenaxo
Knowflake Posts: 439
From:
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted June 25, 2015 12:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Glaucus:
Pluto's perihelion (the point of the orbit closest to the Sun) is in Scorpio.Western Astrologers happened to give Pluto's perihelion sign for Pluto to rule over.
I am very sure that they were aware of that as astronomers. Pluto's aphelion (the point of the orbit furthest from the Sun) is in Taurus.
This is really old but it blew my mind. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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