posted June 19, 2010 04:12 PM         

I only today noticed the latter aspect. At any rate, having more time to contemplate the former, I looked up what it means on google or whatever, and many resources had confused Lilith references (with the three entities) but more or less it was saying that the Venus would have an attraction to the Lilith person, "but it's more or less the forbidden fruit kind of attraction". And I can see where this comes up. She keeps wanting more than friendship, and says she thinks romantic love is the only kind of love that can help her, and I try to explain that true love is love unbiased by lust or whatever, but she wont buy it, and I give in, because she'll just freaking kill herself or whatever otherwise. And for any condescending right wingers, yes she has all the professional help and is on drugs etc, which help her to an extent I don't know. Obviously not enough. So at any rate, Lilith represents giving into evil, or basically letting the ends justify the means despite knowing they don't, right? So despite not believing in this sort of love per se, I'm giving into it to "help her", or who knows.

I'd like to post a whole chart but I can't do to complications with my computer. Once I use a different one maybe I will.

Anyone have any constructive or insightful comments on this, or a personal found meaning of the two aspects? I would appreciate reading them.

Thank you.

posted June 19, 2010 07:51 PM         

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I try to explain that true love is love unbiased by lust or whatever

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I think you have an obsession with love in the absence of lust. You are over idealizing this and hence quitting masturbation in an effort to do what? Have more wet dreams and pretend your penis doesn't exist?

This is your personal take on the world and not a universal truth.

Perhaps try to strike a balance between her insatiable desire for romantic (lustful love) and your insatiable desire for complete abstinence?

Both are unnecessary extremes.

quote:

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So despite not believing in this sort of love per se, I'm giving into it to "help her"

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posted June 19, 2010 11:49 PM         

She's also been sexually abused, by her father, and she put herself into a sadomasochism sexual relationship.

Anyway, sex is irrelevant to the love she needs, she's been raised badly, and I want to undo how she has. Or hell, maybe it isn't; maybe there's some divine force in sex beyond me, whatever the case, I am unaware of it. The point is: It's not what I want from her, but she wont accept less.

posted June 20, 2010 12:30 AM         

But back to the subject, it does sound a bit like Lilith trying to lure you away from your values (venus) with the square creating this tension...but I think there's something else involved too. Maybe there's a neptune interaspect in the synastry somewhere that indicates the savior/save-ee thing going on. Or maybe with you being piscean, you feel you have need to help her in some way.

You are right about one thing though, the love she's looking for is not what she needs. If the current professional help she's getting does nothing for her, she needs to look down a different avenue. I'm just not sure if its you though, because eventually you'll be drained. I have a Cancer Stellium and a good amount of Neptune so I know how it can be when we let people with problems attach themselves to us.

posted June 20, 2010 12:52 AM         

Also we both have Uranus conjunct Neptune, mine much more tight, and conjunct her Lilith by a few degrees, I think probably 3 or under. Once I have access to a suitable computer, I'll set up the chart. (:

posted June 20, 2010 02:20 AM         

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Thanks Moonwitch (right?). Yes, I have Aries Venus. In fact I wrote above.
Also we both have Uranus conjunct Neptune, mine much more tight, and conjunct her Lilith by a few degrees, I think probably 3 or under. Once I have access to a suitable computer, I'll set up the chart. (:

Edit: changed to Moonwitch. I thought you were Dulce Luna, but then I remembered, Sorry!

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posted June 20, 2010 06:42 AM         

Sex doesn't revolt me, I just logically deduct it's wrong. Really, this is on the premise that true love doesn't exist, as is without compromise, like it's just handed to you in fairy tales. And instead we must teach ourselves to be titans of understanding since no one else is going help the misunderstandings. When I saw someone I thought I was in love, like at first glance or whatever, but I was too shy to act on it, and that obviously never happened, and now we know eachother as rather distant internet friends, since I moved and all, and when I lived there we didn't talk at all in person, it was just awkward, because I guess I was honest about crushing on her in body language but it was out of place without the courage to say it. So ultimately now I've been ignoring it's existence, really the antithesis of what I'm trying to represent, but maybe that's the point; to assure myself I wouldn't do such a thing. Coincidentally, or not, her birthday is one day before this girl I'm currently with's, and her current boyfriend's birthday is 7 days before mine. Both her and I are 9s.

At any rate, I feel responsible to fix everything, and always have. Sex would be justified if it didn't affect the mate, i.e. they would make one sided analogies and commit suicide contemplating it when you've broken up. But either way, I feel responsible to help this suicidal girl. And I've put myself in a position where it must be short handedly.

posted June 20, 2010 01:16 PM         

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she's got her Venus conjunct my Lilith(r)

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And my Venus is square her Lilith

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But honestly, getting into a relationship with someone or accepting to share affections just coz someone needs it to get over her own problems isn't the best way. If you're not really returning your affections truthfully (as in that you do feel what you're showing), the other person might know it sooner or later, and it will just make her feel worse.

posted June 20, 2010 03:35 PM         

As for Venus/Lilith - I know people who have this in their own natal chart (my boyfriend has the conjunction), and my Lilith conj his Venus widely, and vertex, while his Lilith conj my MC/IC.
I don't think of this as a bad aspect but Lilith is about unconscious desires and convention. What we disown, we get thrown back in our face via others and if it's sexual disowning, then yeah, we will find others who tend to manifest our disowned qualities. With Lilith again it deals with societal convention. So if you have an issue with sex or it is not integrated in your own being, you might find yourself attracting others who have sexual issues as well and psychologically trying to claim what you disown. It's tricky Lilith business.

posted June 20, 2010 04:22 PM         

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So there you have it. Now give me your opinions on Lilith and Venus! :P I'll have a chart up some time.

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Well I can try and give it from my perspective, I have Moon conjunct Lilith in Virgo/8th house natally. Some people have always been very uncomfortable with me, and I never could figure out why until I found out about this placement. The people who are uncomfortable with my prescence also happen to be weak/superficial so they just can't handle something that naturally cuts through BS and conventional stereotypes.

Anyways, the point is....with her Lilith squaring your venus, she's probably challenging your ideas about feminine sexuality in a way that might scare you a bit. Do you have Venus square neptune, like amowls suggested earlier? Then she's definitely challenging your ideals about love too.

*edit* Aha, you do have the Venus/Neptune square...and its being activated by her Lilith. That makes things alot more clearer now.

The other way around, with her venus conjuncting your Lilith. Her sexuality attracts you, almost compulsively. But at the same time, like Comica said, you might find something forbidden or dangerous about it which is shown clearly in your post.

In the end, I strongly believe that no person can help her but a professional. I know this might hurt your Piscean ego, but I can't put it any other way. Maybe she's not consistent about the help she's supposed to be getting now, or maybe she needs new help. I dunno...

posted June 20, 2010 05:36 PM         

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C'mon, the kind of love that doesn't involve lust is the love I have with my father.

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posted June 20, 2010 05:40 PM         

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What we disown, we get thrown back in our face via others and if it's sexual disowning, then yeah, we will find others who tend to manifest our disowned qualities. With Lilith again it deals with societal convention. So if you have an issue with sex or it is not integrated in your own being, you might find yourself attracting others who have sexual issues as well and psychologically trying to claim what you disown. It's tricky Lilith business.

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Thank you, MVM, for this.

posted June 20, 2010 06:59 PM         

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I just logically deduct it's wrong

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I'd love to read more about your logic.

I'm a consequentialist so I assess the moral status of an action - in terms of consequences.

How do you assess it?

:edit: I should say I get no pleasure out of making these assessments (but I guess they're necessary?).. as I believe it is perfectly futile to draw imaginary lines on an even more imaginary sand - between all of which is right & all of which is wrong.

posted June 21, 2010 05:02 AM         

And no, we are not talking about Black Moon Lilith, we're talking about the asteroid, as spelled out in the title of the thread. I don't know if the meanings will persist between readings of each, and they just manifest in three different bodies for some reason. What cosmica23 wrote about it assuming it's BML, still seems more or less accurate.

My Chiron's conjunct her Mars.. or maybe it's not, it's in the same sign but her Mars is at an end of Leo, and my Chiron's dead in the middle.

Today she cut herself again 8 times but took a walk and realized I was worth living for. Then she admitted she hadn't taken her meds for 2 days. I hate to accept that they could be good for her. They may sustain her, but that's only warranted temporary if at all if she can't sustain herself. And I don't think that's harsh, I think doesn't see the point of life this way, and that's why she decides to stop playing along, and skip her dosage. from time to time.

And that's the kind of freaking love I want to have with her. She never had a father, she had mother who knew her father abused her sexually and didn't care, and abuses her herself still in other ways. She assaults her out of her own inability to help herself, and I don't want this trend to follow down the line, so I'm cutting in. I barely infatuate her. Our synastry is crap. 6 squares an opposition and 2 sextiles, not even between personal planets.