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Author Topic:   12th house confusion
Nadiya368
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From: Richmond, VA usa
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posted September 23, 2010 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
So I have just recently decided to do more research into my 12th house activity to find out that I have Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and my north node all in capricorn and all in my 12th house. I have found some information on the parts of these placements but nothing on the crowded house as a whole. If anyone could offer more insight, seeing as I'm new to the 12th house I'd love to hear it

Thanks!

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electricmind
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posted September 23, 2010 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricmind     Edit/Delete Message
The 12th house is Self consciously experiencing the Oneness of itself with all individuals and things. What is behind the physical is not easily seen; oneness is beyond the physical. It comes after the 11th house where self is in conscious experience of individuality amongst other individuals.

Some planets bode well in the 12th house, others not so much...as with any house.

Planets in the 12th may represent energies or archetypes that you may not be aware of or that you suppress.

I believe that the 12th house is an outpouring of the 8th house's desire to merge with one other individual. 12th house merges with everything. 4th house is the deepest experience of self, internally....in a sense, merging with the self.

Uranus in the 12th house may manifest as unexpected change and eccentricity used as a way to experience Oneness. Or lack of acknowledgement of yourself as eccentric or unpredictable...different.

Neptune in the 12th, I don't know that this has any real noticeable effect. Cookbook interpretations speak about institutions and psychic abilities...Neptune would have to have a tight aspect to a personal planet for that to really manifest. As with all planets in the 12th, look to the houses that they rule to see where you have boundary issues or issues asserting yourself.

Saturn in the 12th house is a rough one. Saturn is all learning to have boundaries and limitations in the area of its sign placement. The 12th house is about SELF experiencing a lack of boundaries and limitations in relation to existence.
With Saturn in Capricorn in the 12th, I would ask if you have issues with other people forcing or suggesting boundaries for you? Do you have issues asserting yourself as the authority of (insert house that saturn rules)?

As I read this over, I realize that some of this might be cryptic. But alas that is the nature of the 12th house.

One last thing. The 12th house is not about experiencing oneness at the expense or demise of the ego, they are to work together. 12th house is an evolved ego when its higher functions are accessed.

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Nadiya368
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From: Richmond, VA usa
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posted September 23, 2010 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
No, I wouldn't say that I have others putting boundaries on me it's safe to say I do most of that myself. I also have a cap moon, so I'm very comfortable with boundaries and clear cut lines so moving towards an understanding of my 12th house is going to be one of my challenges.

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electricmind
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posted September 23, 2010 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricmind     Edit/Delete Message
are you aquarius rising? moon in the 11th house?

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Nadiya368
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posted September 23, 2010 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
yupp, thats me with my sun in taurus

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electricmind
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posted September 23, 2010 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricmind     Edit/Delete Message
so saturn rules your 12th house.

do you think of yourself as too practical? or do others see you that way?

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Nadiya368
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posted September 23, 2010 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
oh absolutely, I've gotten that reputation my entire life pretty much. Which is interesting because my thought process is innately the exact opposite.

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electricmind
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posted September 23, 2010 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricmind     Edit/Delete Message
THAT is saturn in the 12th house! you just described it. everyone sees you as too practical. to earthy, too focused on the tangible. and you are like huh?

same with uranus. you don't think you are quirky or different or eccentric, but you probably are.

as well as being an aqua rising, you would really come off as intellectual and eccentric but with your chart ruler in the 12th house, you may not see it that way.

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Nadiya368
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posted September 23, 2010 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
wow, that was dead on. I do get so interested in how I come off to people because I'm honestly just unaware. I see myself one way, but it turns out to be something completely different. I seem to be full of contradictions.

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Benedict Moon*
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posted September 24, 2010 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
I have those same planets in the 12th, but with a Capricorn Rising and I agree with the above. I never understood why I don't identify with the description of Capricorn at all....while others see me as totally Cappy. Looking more into the 12th house Saturn placement really connects the dots.

*With Uranus, it seems like the more and more I try to conform...the more strange/eccentric I come off to others. =( Neptune is easy for me to pinpoint but that could be because I have it in tight aspect to my Moon and Mercury. I'm a huge daydreamer and escapist...atleast in my mind.

Its hard to have a crowded 12th house when you have Capricorn energy, because we try so hard to put up boundaries but people either don't respect them, or the boundaries dissolve on their own. Ex. I want to be seperate from other people, but being empathic makes it nearly impossible.

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katatonic
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posted September 24, 2010 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
i experienced this with uranus in cap...i was trying so hard to provide a "normal" life for my daughter at that time and it was an abject failure...even though i did manage to hold down a "straight" job for over 5 years working for a very conservative business lawyer! plus most people saw me as MORE eccentric than usual at that time!! i have aqua rising too, nadiya, and experienced those planets transitting my 12th several years ago .. it was very hard work but it taught me how strong i am, so i suspect your life is set up to give you a lot of confidence in your inner self... and a lot of "growth experiences" which frankly can be very frustrating!

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Nadiya368
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posted September 24, 2010 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
Katatonic,
I relate to that completely, I'm not even sure I've ever felt normal in my entire life. There' always been some sort of "off"-ness to the way I do things, I walk to the beat of my own drum even if its walking to the bathroom. i.e. I like to get dressed up to go nowhere, and usually end up cleaning my apartment in heels. Why?, no clue, couldn't tell you but i love it. And your comment about "growth experiences" being very frustrating, couldn't agree more. All my dirty laundry and repressed cap moon emotions seem so want to surface all at once! Definition of frustrating.


Benedict,
I know what you mean about the more you try to conform, the more eccentric you seem. I think it's almost like someone trying to wear clothes that don't fit for example, it only makes the uniqueness show that much more. I went through high school thinking I needed to change or there was something wrong with me, but looking back it just made me more unhappy. I would condemn people who looked alike, as I claimed them to be "carbon copies" : ) when inside I just wanted to fit, but ehh who wants to blend in anyways...and the day dreaming, sooo prevalent in my day. Its almost like I create a movie scene in my head to escape from what's actually going on in front of me, and when i switch back to reality its like I've been gone to a while and have to readjust to the real world (sooo pisces of me)....even though I no planets in that sign. And as far as the boundaries go, I've learned its better to work on letting them down on your own (to a certain extent) cause maintaining cappy restraint/composure 24/7 can be exhausting! (i'm still working on this)...i have issues letting loose : /

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Nadiya368
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From: Richmond, VA usa
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posted September 24, 2010 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
Oops, just realized I was wrong..I have saturn in aquarius not capricorn woops!

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DD
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posted September 25, 2010 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
"The 12th house is Self consciously experiencing the Oneness of itself with all individuals and things. What is behind the physical is not easily seen; oneness is beyond the physical."
Yes.

" It comes after the 11th house where self is in conscious experience of individuality amongst other individuals."
Actually it comes after the 1st house, astronomically at least.

The Sun moves from the ASC over the MC to the DESC where it descends.


AStrologically you are right of course.

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Mblake81
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posted September 25, 2010 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mblake81     Edit/Delete Message
I have a 12th house moon, i relate to this article.
http://12th.tribe.net/thread/c160721f-6268-42d8-bf31-897977f99188

same article but the original site, different comments. http://in2themystics.com/astrology-articles-2/the-twelfth-house-moon/

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lalalinda
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posted September 25, 2010 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Nadiya368! Welcome to LL

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Ami Anne
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posted September 25, 2010 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
I read that Mblake

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Benedict Moon*
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posted September 25, 2010 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I know what you mean about the more you try to conform, the more eccentric you seem. I think it's almost like someone trying to wear clothes that don't fit for example, it only makes the uniqueness show that much more. I went through high school thinking I needed to change or there was something wrong with me, but looking back it just made me more unhappy. I would condemn people who looked alike, as I claimed them to be "carbon copies" : ) when inside I just wanted to fit, but ehh who wants to blend in anyways...and the day dreaming, sooo prevalent in my day. Its almost like I create a movie scene in my head to escape from what's actually going on in front of me, and when i switch back to reality its like I've been gone to a while and have to readjust to the real world (sooo pisces of me)....even though I no planets in that sign. And as far as the boundaries go, I've learned its better to work on letting them down on your own (to a certain extent) cause maintaining cappy restraint/composure 24/7 can be exhausting! (i'm still working on this)...i have issues letting loose : /


Our highschool experiences sound similar...lol. I've stopped trying so hard to suppress the Uranian quirks; its kind of easier when you're not confined to a place where everyone has to be the same (eg. highschool).

The boundaries still need work because for my own preservation I am a strong believer in the philosophy 'good fences make good neighbors' (haha, I guess I am kind of Cappy). It is and it isn't selfish. As someone who psychically absorbs so much, I have to protect myself.

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Mblake81
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posted September 25, 2010 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mblake81     Edit/Delete Message
The thing is we do have to focus alot on ourselves, its not a selfish act if its really needed, which it is. 12th house planets will feel the need to be alone, needed as much as sleep is.

from another 12th house moon:

Into the Mystic
Perceptions of a 12th house Moon expressed through the medium of Astrology, Holistic Healing and Creative Artforms

"Having a 12th house moon to me, is like being the Universe’s baby. Our ‘mother’, is our Spirit/Light family. From our Spirit mother, we receive our nurturing, tutoring and love.

This is a tremendous gift, yet it can be quite difficult to bond with those in human form, and even to become comfortable with our own humaness, when we are so comfortable and well cared for by Spirit.

Yet, I believe we are here in this human experience for a purpose, and to me 12th house placements symbolize the bridge, between Spirit and Matter, but to reach your full potential as this Bridge, not only must one be comfortable with Spirit on one side, but also human on the other.

So yes, having this placement can be difficult and there is work to be done with it that can take a significant amount of time early in life to achieve. Yet there comes a point I believe, where you are faced with having to make a decision, as to if you are going to spend the rest of your earthly life with only Spirit as family (and if that is enough for you), or if you are going to work on the issues that need to be overcome to also be a part, of humanity.

Either way you choose I feel is fine, I do not believe we are punished either way..it just isn’t about that.

I chose to the work I needed to do, to be accepting of my humaness also. It is my opinion that being in Spirit is the easy part, being human..lol..not so much. Yet, I see that our humaness is a bonus, an add-on, if you will. There is much we do and experience in human form, that we cannot do out of these bodies.
So I have worked diligently for over a decade now to integrate my humaness with my Spirit.

As for disappointments, when you walk your path to wholeness there comes a point, that you realize you only suffer disappointment which leads to lack of trust, when you attach expectations to others that they cannot possibly fulfill. You’ve likely heard it many times, but I have found it to be true, that all we really truly need, we already possess, within ourselves.

Work towards fulfilling yourself, and your disappointments and lack of trust in others will cease to be of issue."

____________________________________________

ps, i was born/live on the Neptune/IC line

"A meaningful way to comply with the theme of these regions is to withdraw to the safety of your private life. Positive examples of making this a reality are meditation, a holiday in nature and quiet days spent in the tranquility of a monastery. This way, you create a meaningful environment for your increased sensitivity and intuition.

However, if you are after material success, this place is not very suitable. This is especially true for all economic and materialistic transactions, as well as professional. Neptune strengthens your imaginative and transcendental powers, but it also clouds your sense of reality and clarity of judgment.

In an atmosphere where all material things seem to dissolve you may feel uncertain and confused, you may feel uprooted and homeless. But living here can give you the feeling of being at home in the cosmos rather than in the "real" world."

And here is my neptune(s)

Neptune in the Fourth House
Neptune in Sagittarius <---
Neptune Opposition Midheaven
Mars Square Neptune
Neptune Square Ascendant
Jupiter Sextile Neptune
Saturn Sextile Neptune
Neptune Sextile Pluto

Pss, Mars in virgo in 12th House as well, the opposite of pisces.

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Mblake81
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posted September 25, 2010 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mblake81     Edit/Delete Message
edit

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Nadiya368
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posted September 27, 2010 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
The need for being alone is something I haven't even been conscious of until very recently. I would subconsciously go on my own (when around my family even) and do things alone without noticing why...but in those alone moments, that belonged only to me I was happy.

And even now, as I'm becoming more aware of how I react to other people it's hard to admit...but I can't be around people for very long, its draining and depressing. I feel everyone else's unhappiness while i'm trying to focus on my own issues I get bogged down with everyone else's and I feel like i'm going to lose my mind.

My family, like most do not get along 100% and the lack of peace is awful. I feel so deeply for everyone, allllll the time that I almost absorb the people around me. And then once I'm finally alone, I have to almost recharge my batteries to find my center....

maybe the focusing on protecting yourself suggestion was right on the money.

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Mblake81
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posted September 27, 2010 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mblake81     Edit/Delete Message
Its generally regarded as a negative thing in american society to want to be alone, thats the mindset.

You see and hear it on tv, from friends and family, music,schools, etc.

So its no wonder why 12th house mooners have a hard time dealing with these issues.

We dont need to be alone 24/7, we just need our time to recharge

Be aware of it, do it when you need it. Same mindset as eating or sleeping

**This is how i understand it, YMMV**

*Just to share with you:

If im in a busy place and need my solace i will get lost in doing something autonomously by myself. So im still doing something productive and taking care of my own needs at the same time

*Note: ive had difficulty doing this in really high stress environments, no place to stop or do something on my own.. ill grow silent and recluse into my own self in these cases, until the need has passed.

And due to the mindset of people not wanting to be alone like i mentioned above, when i am doing this around others it is noticed and 95% percent of the time misunderstood.

"Something wrong with you?"
"whats the matter?"
"That guy is weird, he wants to be alone,f-ck him let him be like that"

Thats the hardest part, the people you are most sensitive to cant,wont, or simply misunderstand you as this is deemed "not normal"

I've come to realize that it is really hard for people without this to naturally understand it. I suppose its like asking me to be party animal 24/7.. id prolly stroke out lol

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Nadiya368
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posted September 27, 2010 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadiya368     Edit/Delete Message
mblake81
It’s so funny, you’ve literally nailed it on the head for me. I was actually thinking about your post just walking down the street and I started smiling to myself as I looked around at the people, and thinking back to how attached I was all of high school to my girl friends.

I was literally never home.

When we were all out together, the friend who wasn’t with us was looked down upon. It was an awful hierarchy of “who should we not invite out with us tonight?t” “who should we exclude?” and things along those lines. It was absolutely awful, and I was terribly caught up in the system. (I was 15, not my brightest years). But I suddenly got so excited at the fact that I have a natural need to be alone, and that’s where I am most comfortable. I was taught to believe people who were alone were failures, as you said:

“Its generally regarded as a negative thing in american society to want to be alone, thats the mindset.
You see and hear it on tv, from friends and family, music,schools, etc.”

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katatonic
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posted September 27, 2010 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
i am a pisces moon. 1st house, but basically 12th house vibe. i got in trouble in grade school for staring out the window, reading my own books, and drawing/falling asleep in class. not because i didn't do my work, i was an A+ across the board then!

in secondary school i made my homework last most of the evening as an excuse to be alone in my room. did a lot of writing as well. when angry heading out the door for a long walk has always been my best medicine.

i was also out of step in high school, and felt inferior for it. i think most sensitive kids ARE out of step in high school not necessarily 12th/pisces people...but frequently they are just that!

when i had a child i was saved by her father moving out! which meant that every weekend i got 24 hours to myself. i did work part of that time, but the rest i had an empty house and serious downtime! otherwise i do not think i could have coped with the demands of motherhood...

the only planet i have in 12 is retro jupiter. this is a gift i appreciate more and more over the years. it has supported my pisces moon and its dreamy tendencies, but with a practical edge that has made it possible for me to live a pretty creative life.

i loves the 12th house stuff!

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Mblake81
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posted September 28, 2010 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mblake81     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvgm0lgZwo8

12th house/neptune/pisces all over it.

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