posted October 01, 2010 10:36 AM         

And I had some thoughts:

Jung, who used astrology in his medical practice, had a close square in his own natal chart between Sun and Neptune. This is the most common aspect found in the charts of spiritual devotees, largely because it enables access to visionary states without the assistance of plant allies (or "chemicals"; of which we are all made). Jung almost certainly would have understood and agreed with this assessment. He was not critical of the indigenous cultures which, for thousands of years, have been effectively employing plant allies in order to access realms of visionary ecstasy and import for the purpose of maintaining the spiritual health of the community.

Research into these cultures reveals them to be relatively peaceful; not bent on competition and conquest, as we are. Relatively in harmony with the natural world, it would not occur to them to stigmatize the ingesting of natural substances proven to give insight into the heart of man. As Paracelsus puts it, "[The size of the dose determines whether the agent will act as a medicine or poison.]" The responsible use of entheogens is something our own culture has yet to come to terms with, but it may very well determine the future of our species. In any case, the encounter, and subsequent grappling, with entheogens marks the most significant event in Western Civilization in this century.

------------------

posted October 01, 2010 04:42 PM         

quote:

---

...In Carl Jung's birth chart, he has the Sun square Neptune. The Sun represents the father, the Old King in alchemy, and Neptune represents the oceanic, the ecstatic, the realm of Dionysus, the irrational, the imaginal. The square between these planets suggests the father's unsuccessful integration of Neptune's realm.

Because we are looking at Jung's inner image of the father via his chart, this aspect also suggests Jung's awareness of his father's failure to integrate Neptune's realm. The primary image of the father will be one characterized by the negative expression of Neptune. He will experience the father as weak, as wounded, as disappointing, as suffering. We know that the Sun square Neptune can be experienced as the alcoholic father, the father who drowns his sorrows in spirits, or a sick father, or the idealized father who eventually falls off the pedestal, or an absent father we can't remember clearly, whose image is fuzzy, nebulous. The essential image is the father who embodies an ego with a hole opening inward and downward into the irrational, which he is fearful to explore.

We know from Jung's autobiography that this is true of his father. (I should pause and mention that Jung's father was a minister, a "poor country pastor" in Jung's words.) Jung writes, "it was clear to me that something quite specific was tormenting him and I suspected that it had something to do with his faith. From a number of hints he let fall I was convinced that he suffered from religious doubts. This, it seemed, to me, was bound to be the case, if the necessary experience had not come to him" (Jung 1965, p. 92). And later, "I was seized with the most vehement pity for my father. All at once I understood the tragedy of his profession and his life" (Jung 1965, p. 55). "I was disillusioned and even indignant, and once more filled with pity for my father, who had fallen victim to this mumbo-jumbo" (Jung 1965, p. 59). This is all very much the language of Neptune. Pity, tragedy, disillusioned, victim...

Now imaginatively, archetypally, this wounded father is the Fisher King, the guardian of the holy Grail, himself a priest, passing on the necessity of the spiritual quest to the next generation. A young (Jung?) knight, a Parsival, is needed to restore both the Fisher King and the kingdom, which has become a waste land.
Jung himself referred to his father as Amfortas. He recognized the Grail King in his father. He said, "my memory of my father is of a sufferer stricken with an Amfortas wound, a `fisher king' whose wound would not heal" (Jung 1965, p. 215).
... from A Jungian Approach To Astrological Counseling by Michael McLay

---

posted October 01, 2010 05:23 PM         

Marijuana, for example, in my culture is widely used to heal the chest for ailments such as pneumonia, asthma etc, used in conjunction with other herbs. I have used marijuana as a tea for my chest problems when I was young. It didn't get me high. It can also be ingested as a tea for relaxation though and the last time I took some "weed tea" was over 2 yrs ago.

Honestly, it is the west that views this herb in a negative way. And since the entire earth is getting westernized... Anyway, as I am still very connected to the natural and olden ways of my people, I don't have judgment towards these substances (because there are other "drugs" stronger than weed that are used by my people. I do have a problem though that "young people" are using them in a recreational way and not sacredly or medicinally because as Valus mentioned above, the amount can make a difference between poison or medicine. Even weed, smoked in large amounts can have negative effects, no matter how natural it might be.

posted October 01, 2010 05:42 PM         

quote:

---

or an absent father we can't remember clearly, whose image is fuzzy, nebulous.

---

This is my father!

posted October 01, 2010 06:27 PM         

I do not have that aspect, but I have sun in pisces and the innocent fool, Parsifal, is something I relate to very much at the moment. I know this is not exactly on topic but I do love that you bring it up. I am a strong advocate of the use of plant based healing, as in marijuana, ayahuasca, psilocybin, etc. Not everyone needs them to contact the collective but I think we should be grateful that they remain our allies as you put it.

Neuroscience is ascending in importance/relevance and it tends to merge with other fields (psychology, linguistics), MDMA has been in recent use in trials to alleviate PTSD and has shown itself to be quite powerful in healing that disorder. There are organizations out there that support the use of these materials on a scientific basis which is very helpful towards legitimacy.

Unmoved- marijuana is a good treatment for lung dysfunction, I'm glad to hear your story.

It's good to remember that natural remedies are hard to monetize, drug companies would much prefer that you pay them.

posted October 02, 2010 12:16 AM         

I think Jung had a similar feeling about Freud, too (who he must have seen as a kind of father-figure). Towards the end, at least. I can't recall the exact quote, but it was something to the effect that Freud lacked the guts to fully embrace the darkness; to surrender control and give himself over to the experience of the unconscious. I've also been watching the documentary about Jung (on youtube), "Matter of Heart". I never knew about his "second wife".

Unmoved,

No, I don't have it.
Just a Pisces South Node,
with ruler in the 12th.

I've had similar impressions of my father
to those described by Jung, though.

It makes me sad to think that you've
only seen a single photo of your dad.

I know there's tremendous sensitivity
in that aspect, and I understand your
aversion to boundary-dissolving substances

Ursa,