posted December 25, 2010 06:49 PM            

Anyway, I copied and pasted an excerpt from an astrologers blog below, which goes into much more detail on the subject.

Disclaimer: The article below is not mine.

AstrologyandPsychicPredictions.com weblog

Daily Archives: August 9, 2010

Eris – Rulership and Rehabilitation

After an astrologer friend suggested the notion that Eris was the true ruler of Libra I thought about it (for a very long time – about a year now). It was her opinion that Venus didn’t seem to be the true ruler of Libra but rather Taurus and we talked at length over the course of this year about the legend of Eris and some of the qualities that really don’t fit Libra. First of all there are more Libra generals than pretty much any other sign, they are amazing tacticians and well-known for being fierce competitors, and in my experience they are the most competitive of all signs. They are creative and visual, no doubt which is why they fell under the purview of Venus for so long. However they are not sensual like Venus, Taurus however is. Taurus loves great food, fine wine, beautiful things, and has a curvy sensuality that Libra is missing. Libras are more intellectual, more in their head and often disconnected from their bodies. While it is true that they like nice things as long as they are intellectually stimulated they can do without them. Taurus however needs to eat a great meal no matter how little money they have they will use what little they have on the perfect gourmet spice or amazing wine. They are also willing to work for other people without taking this on as their identity. They can separate work, seeing it as a means to an end – the end being a nice lifestyle where as a Libra would rather be a pauper who works for himself doing what he loves than a rich man who works for a paycheck just to support himself in a luxurious lifestyle. Now I’m not saying all Taurus people live a life of luxury, I’m just saying that work is work and their lives are not defined by it in the same way – it’s just a job. To a Libra its time wasted when they could be busy daydreaming or working on something of value to them personally.

At first I resisted the idea that Eris was the ruler of Libra after all she isn’t really considered a very “nice” Goddess and Libras are generally thought to be very nice – they avoid conflict, they don’t like disharmony and I have Mars in Libra and have many Libra friends so I felt sort of bad thrusting this sort of odd ball Goddess on them. However after much thought I think my friend’s observation is correct. Eris is the sister of Aries. Aries is the other side of the astrological coin to Libra. And in many ways she fits the Libra traits if we strip away some of the judgment put upon her by the ancients.

The legend or myth basically tells the story of a wedding in which all the Gods were invited except Eris (due to her association with disharmony). She was upset by this and came up with a strategy to get even in a very clever and covert way, she threw a golden apple into the proceedings which read: To the fairest. Of course all the egotistical Goddesses thought it was for them, Hera, Aphrodite and Athena. The three women fought over it and then asked Zeus to judge who the apple was for, being the father and husband he decided it wasn’t a good move to judge such a competition and asked Paris to do the honors. Each of the Goddesses offered him a bribe. Aphrodite’s won out and he was given the most beautiful mortal woman in the world to take as his wife Helen of Troy. This of course caused the Trojan war.

Now on the surface this is kind of a nasty thing to do, however one must admit that Eris was prejudged and instead of internalizing the hurt she turned it around in a clever way to make a point. She waged a war against those who had castigated her. If she had been a man, this would have been a sign of strength – she was in fact a warrior. Her strategy used psychology and surprise – very modern war methodology, in fact it very much resembles the Trojan horse that was to come in the wake of this supposed event. She used her enemies vanity and megalomania against them and in fact they are the ones who chose to respond with bribery and promises in order to win this imaginary and empty competition. She used her understanding of psychology to manipulate those who had hurt her, in order to teach them a lesson – after all they had been unfair to her.

Now her strategic genius would make sense in relationship with Libra. It would explain why there are so many generals who have been Libras and (I believe famous chess players as well). It would also explain the competitive spirit Libras have – the challenge they find and need to fuel them in their work, whether it is competing with themselves to do better, or with a rival they want to show up.

I was told by a prominent astrologer I studied with early on (many, many, many years ago) that there were more people born with Libra rising in the US than any other sign. He said it was something close to 50 percent (or something of that nature) totally out of balance with what one would expect, due to the fact that we are far north, and Libra rises for the longest period of time during most of the year. And we are by far the most competitive people on the planet, we take great pride in our work and love being entrepreneurs and working for ourselves.

In many ways Libras have much in common with Aries people, except Libras, instead of being direct and straightforward, work behind the scenes, get their ducks in a row and then strike. They don’t like being in the center of an arguments especially prolonged ones. They prefer to plan their attack and then let nature take its course. This can upset the apple cart, but that’s OK as long as they aren’t there when it turns over (much like Eris).

So instead of seeing Eris as the Goddess of Discord I prefer to take her back to what I imagine was probably her proper place – before her power was taken away due to the change from a matriarchal society into a patriarchal, and think of her as a supreme warrior and brilliant strategist capable of winning even when all the odds and all the Gods were against her!

I’ll dissect how it affects people as individuals and what it means in people’s charts in the next post on her.

Best wishes and many blessings,

Denise

THE END

posted December 25, 2010 06:59 PM            

also

what about the other dwarf planets:
Ceres, Makemake,and Haumea?

should they have rulerships?

what about other dwarf planet candidate which are all transneptunians:
Sedna,Orcus,Varuna,Quaoar,Ixion?

should they have rulerships?

Eris Perihelion is in Libra
Eris Aphelion is in Aries
Eris North Node is in Taurus
Eris South Node is in Scorpio

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 26, 2010 12:32 AM            

Makemake and Haumea aren't that much smaller than Pluto either
Haumea's widest dimension is large as Pluto

all the other bodies that I mentioned were discovered before Eris except Makemake which was discovered a few months after Eris was discovered

Ceres was the very first minor planet discovered
it was discovered in 1801
it was classed as a planet for 40 years and then was classed as a minor planet,asteroid
it's classed as a dwarf planet since 2006
Haumea and Makemake are classed as dwarf planets too

Ceres is the only dwarf planet that is an asteroid

also when Pluto was assigned rulership of Scorpio, it was thought to be as large as our Earth until 1978
of course, it was thought to be the only object that orbited beyond Neptune
until the discovery of another transneptunian object in 1992

------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 26, 2010 12:58 AM            

Ceres - dwarf planet
Jan 1, 1801

Pluto - dwarf planet
Feb 18, 1930

Varuna - dwarf planet candidate
Nov 28, 2000

Ixion - dwarf planet candidate
May 22, 2001

Quaoar - dwarf planet candidate
June 4, 2002

Sedna - dwarf planet candidate
Nov 14, 2003

Orcus - dwarf planet candidate
Feb 17, 2004

Haumea - dwarf planet
Dec 28, 2004

Eris - dwarf planet
Jan 5, 2005

Makemake - dwarf planet
March 31, 2005

------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 26, 2010 01:37 AM            

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Assignation of outer planet rulerships

"During the interview Hand made the following observations. This is from memory. A British astrologer, and I believe it was Sepharial (Walter Richard Old who renamed himself W. Gorn Old, 1864 - 1929) is the first astrologer known to have "assigned" Uranus to Aquarius and Neptune to Pisces. His reasoning went this way: If we look at the rulerships we notice that they follow the Chaldean order of the planets, e.g. Mercury rules Virgo, the next planet out is Venus and she rules Libra, the next sign. The next planet is Mars and he rules Scorpio, Jupiter rules Sagittarius, and Saturn rules Capricorn. Well, the next planet out is Uranus and therefore Uranus rules the next sign Aquarius and Neptune, the next planet rules Pisces. As far as astrological reasoning goes, this isn't horrible, but it does mess up the table of dignities, which had fallen out of favor by Sepharial's time.

Pluto really messes things up since we are now out of signs. According to Hand, a group of German astrologers put it to a vote whether or not Pluto ruled Scorpio. While very democratic, this does not lend itself to the way in which astrology views the cosmos. It was voted down! However, one disgruntled member, who was very influential, wrote a book that cited Pluto as Scorpio's ruler as fact, and it stuck! Hand does not name the group or this member to the best of my memory.

There are two serious problems with these rulerships. The first is they mess up the table of dignities and therefore the method of determining planetary strength, and the second is they don't seem to match modern astrology's own rules of planet=sign=house. Uranus is the planet of upheaval and revolution and it rules a fixed air sign. There is no affinity between the two. Neptune has given Pisces its "space cadet" reputation which is highly undeserved. Pisces is very much a Jupiter ruled sign.

Pluto and Scorpio are a better match than the other two, but by taking Scorpio away from Mars, we deny Mars its feminine or receptive qualities as expressed through Scorpio. The same is true of Jupiter and Pisces. The reverse is true for Saturn."
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=254

Interview with Robert Hand

AccessNewAge:
This raises a question. The ancients only had seven planets. We have more now, and asteroids - whatever...and you are studying, of course, the traditional astrology.

Rob:
Yes, and almost all of us use the modern planets. We put them into a special category. We don't give them sign rulerships, for example. We only give them house and sign placements, but not rulerships.

AccessNewAge:
How did the ancients deal with the energies of these planets when they didn't have the actual planets to call upon?

Rob:
Actually, if you look at Uranus, Neptune and Pluto you will see that their natures have been largely created by taking away characteristics of the inner planets.

AccessNewAge:
Octaves...

Rob:
Not even octaves. It's much more hash-like than that. Pluto, for example, although it is usually described as a higher octave of Mars, has actually taken most of its keywords from Saturn. If you study Saturn keywords before you study Pluto, and then you study modern Plutonian keywords, you find a tremendous overlap. Occasionally you get a little Moon in there. Neptune, which is often described as the higher octave of Venus, has actually stolen most of its keywords from the Moon. And Uranus, which is described as a higher octave of Mercury, uses a combination of Mercury and Mars keywords.
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/hand1.htm

Judi:
"Well, the first question that would come up is, what about the newcomer with this timing - with the things you are uncovering through Project Hindsight? The temptation is to immediately kind of delve right into it. How advisable would you say that would be to a newcomer? Would it be wiser to kind of blend the knowledge that is being brought out now with the material that has been established and used in modern times?"

Rob:
"I think it would be totally practical to start off as a neo-traditionalist. I think it's actually more feasible, because the princples are more clearly laid out."

Judi:
"And it makes more sense and adds a lot more foundation."

Rob:
"Yes. Lee (Lehman) has a whole lecture on the subject of the rays- but basically she was the one who pointed out how the keyword list had been composed and in an actual statistical survey of keyword lists she discovered that the keywords for the outer planets are not derived from the planets of which they are theoretically the higher octaves; but these other ones (see the first part of this series). In this same talk, she discussed how Uranus, Neptune and Pluto got their rulerships- historically. When Chiron came into being, or when it was found, people started deriving its symbolism partly from mythology and partly from observation, then seeing what sign of the zodiac it most resembled. Then they tried to assign it to a sign in the zodiac. This has resulted in a plethora of rulerships for Chiron.

Judi:
(laughs) "CHIRON...Ruler of Everything..."

Rob:
"Some people keep asking me what I think of a certain book about Chiron. I say, 'Well, it's the single most important thing in the chart, and it rules everything. That's what I got from the book.' But- back to the other planets and rulerships- Uranus was the first, of course. Astrologers were watching it, and there's a funny story about - I can't remember his name, it may come back to me. Anyway, this astrologer was a painter, and a good friend of Blake's, and he observed that Uranus was about to transit his fourth house cusp. And, when it was exact, he came home and found his house was burning down. He went leaping around and shouting, "I know what Uranus means, I know what Uranus means!"

(Laughter All Around...)

Rob:
"How's that for detachment?"

Access:NewAge:
"But didn't he infer the wrong thing? It was only the fourth house of his chart."

Rob:
"Yes, but he meant a sudden, unexpected event."

Access:NewAge:
"Oh, I see."

Rob:
"At any rate, Raphael was the one who assigned Uranus to Aquarius. And the first thing that I understand about Raphael was that he was a terrible astrologer by any standards - traditional or modern. He was basically more interested in selling magical charms and amulets than in doing astrology really well."

Access:NewAge:
"He was a merchant."

Rob:
"Yes. And, his reasoning went like this- Mercury rules Virgo, Venus rules Libra, Mars rules Scorpio, Jupiter rules Sagittarius, Saturn rules Capricorn, therefore a new planet must rule Aquarius! (Laughter from Clark and me) Then, on the same sterling logic, Neptune was given to Pisces- which means that Pluto should have been given Aries. Something went wrong there, and it was decided to give it to Scorpio, which totally destroys the original logic, because Mars doesn't rule Scorpio, and you no longer have the Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus ordering! So not even in terms of the modern rulers does the rulership of Pluto in Scorpio hold. And a Congress of astrologers after WWII in Germany voted on a motion to the effect that Pluto was not the ruler of Scorpio, and it passed unanimously.

Access:NewAge:
(laughing) "Then it must be so! It's democratically arrived at."

Rob:
"The point is that it's not a unanimous decision that it is so. The reason that most people give it to Scorpio is because the first guy who wrote a book about it gave it to Scorpio - Brunhubner. As a matter of fact there is very little about Brunhubner's book that's changed or about his interpretation of Pluto that has changed significantly since, and the needs for the change are growing by the year. He got the "Hostess with the Mostest" award or something.

Access:NewAge:
"These outer planets - what to do with them? How to handle them?"

Judi:
"Well, there's a big difference, I think, between the outer planets and the original seven - that being we can't see the outer planets with our eyes alone. So right there..."

Rob:
"That does make a difference..."

Access:NewAge:
"It makes them more subtle?"

Rob:
"Aspects of non-ordinary states of consciousness. With transits from Pluto, for example, you get weird situations where if you were to believe one side of a story, the version of the person on the opposite side would have to be given by someone who is nuts.

Access:NewAge:
"Who would be nuts? The person telling or the person on the other side?"

Rob:
"Whichever one is telling the truth."

Judi:
"Ah - The Truth-Teller."

Access:NewAge:
"The truth teller is nuts?"

Rob:
"No, the other side is nuts."

Access:NewAge:
"That's bizarre."
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/hand2.htm

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 26, 2010 10:44 AM            

I can see why it would be suggested, Saturn in Libra is said to be exalted and there is a link to the 3 of swords in tarot, I haven't got time now to post all of my thoughts on why I think it may be valid but in short

Eris knew damn well that "the fairest" was all of them or none of them, three indicates choice (two is a dilemma) and here we had the choice between 3 common enough human wants... Eris didn't start the war ...Paris did with his choice but she gets the blame?
He desired another mans wife..the 3 of swords and saturn in libra both have associations with love triangles and heartbreak but Eris is only pointing this out - she doesn't participate in the affair. Eris must have a connection to revealing human traits, she isn't a Goddess in denial that's for sure. Libra is one of 4 human signs with gemini, virgo and aquarius being the others, all the rest have animals as a symbol. Eris points the way to human flaws and Libra doesn't do this but virgo does, I don't see Librans as being "nice", they just manipulate and socialise more effectively than most. Libra is effectively concerned with correcting and maintaining balance but is this what happened between Paris and Helen? Did Paris love Helen or just fancy her?

Eris does give us a choice but tells us that if we make a choice then we have to accept the consequences...which is Justice (in tarot Libra is connected to this card).

We have to have the courage to make a decision (aries/mars) which naturally opposes Libra and squares Capricorn (social hierarchy) and Cancer (the home and roots)

posted December 26, 2010 01:44 PM            

Eris is too otherworldly and nonconformist to rule Libra
the same with all the other transneptunians

Honestly, I don't think it was a good idea for Western astrologers to assign sign rulerships to outerplanets and Pluto.
I like the use of the traditional rulerships much better.

The outer planets and Pluto just don't fit

It's interesting that the astrologers had a voting conference on Pluto with a majority of them voting against Pluto having rulership of Scorpio and that it took a book by a disgruntled astrologer to change the astrological community opinion about Pluto.

Robert Hand made a point that astrologers seem took away traits from the classical planets and assign them to outer planets and Pluto. Astrological seemed to add traits to Scorpio,Aquarius,and Pisces from the outerplanets and Pluto. Those zodiac signs are different in Classical Astrology and Vedic Astrology systems. The New Age Movement seemed to be a factor.

Pisces wasn't known for being a space cadet escapist until after Neptune was discovered.

------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 26, 2010 04:01 PM            

astrology typically attracts uranian types and whilst they like to think they are forward thinkers they can be very reluctant to let go of their own mental concepts

pluto representing the deeper layer of the self (sun) works well and certainly helps to understand more about the hidden side of the character that would possibly have remained hidden,. Since the outer planets were given roles within modern astrology there have been many changes...people are now much more aware of psychology and psychoanalysis which have mainly taken off since the early 1900's, technology too has seen major advances.

Psychological astrology uses the outer planets well, I think they do fit but then I have everything aspecting neptune and pluto and uranus aspecting sun, moon and mercury,

I do think the traditional rulerships have value but mainly because they get the ball rolling.

I have always thought they should all have their own ruling planet but maybe Libra is supposed to share everything and Taurus is happy to have the company. I have issue with Mercury ruling both Virgo and Gemini but again Gemini is a sign of duality but a bit messy for the mind of Virgo.

Interestingly Eris gives birth to

DYSNOMIA was the spirit (daimona) of lawlessness and poor civil constitution. She was a companion of Adikia (Injustice), Ate (Ruin) and Hybris (Violence). Her opposite number was Eunomia (Civil Order).

Libra as the personification of balance and order really does lead to the things listed above, violence is the result of too much niceness and suppression (which one has to do in order to be civilized), if there were no justice there would be no injustice, her offspring had no father....is this where the association comes from? That children without fathers are more likely to be poor citizens, violent and criminal?

posted December 26, 2010 06:57 PM            

###

The conjunction of Venus/Pluto by transit is a bit of a wild card as it could manifest positively or negatively depending on how Venus is sitting in the natal chart. It is worth looking at what house cusps Venus rules, as these areas of life often go through some type of transformation. Venus rules the 6th house in my chart, and during my Pluto/Venus transit my health went through a positive transformation when I started receiving some alternative medical treatment for an ongoing issue I’ve had.

This may not be good news, but during my Pluto/Venus conjunction I also experienced being the subject of two unrequited crushes. Literally, when one of the men left my life, (Although I still see him occasionally ), the other one stepped in and started causing problems. Both of them were extremely inappropriate matches for me and there was zero attraction from my side.

One of them was married with kids, and the other one was decades older than me. I was sickened by the married guy, it was like he couldn’t except that I wanted nothing to do with him, and seemed to have totally forgotten him morels and responsibility towards his family. The older guy was just annoying. He was often excessively grumpy towards me because he knew I didn’t want him, but I was forced to be around him because him lived in the same location as me. He annoyed me because I felt he had no right to be grumpy and mean to me just because I didn’t reciprocate his crush. Both of these situations have caused me a lot of uncomfortable tension and social awkwardness.

One of the reasons why the situation was ongoing is probably because after Pluto conjoined Venus @ 29 Sag it went on to conjoin my sun @ 5Cap. My natal Venus is opposite Jupiter, quincunx my moon, and trine my Saturn, all by less then 1 degree orb. This is how the aspect worked in my life, but it could play out differently for others. The quincunx to my moon is probably what made things extra awkward to deal with during this transit.

Before this transit I’d never really felt Pluto (or if I did I was too young and not paying attention to transits) but now I’m a believer. They can classify Pluto however they want but there’s no doubt that it works.

###

I guess what I’m trying to say is the if Pluto is this powerful in it’s influence, then Eris obviously has this potential as well. Eris certainly made a big splash when it was discovered, and has a lot to say about the debate and renegotiation that occurs when something changes unexpectedly, or a spanner is thrown in the works. As for the other minor planets (and potential minor planets) I admit to not being so well versed in their meanings as they weren’t even on my radar until very recently. Perhaps one or two of them do co-rule signs. Perhaps every sign has a main ruler and a minor ruler but some of them have yet to be assigned. Perhaps there are certain criteria that determine weather or not a minor planet or body can influence a sign that have yet to be unveiled. Whatever the case, if I can except Pluto as a co-ruler then I can be open to the possibility that Eris does also.

I really want to hear from some Libra influenced people out there. Are you satisfied with the symbolism Venus alone for your ruler or do you feel as if something is missing?

posted December 27, 2010 04:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
U know,just because u r new generation that doesn't mean u have to burn the bridges,and reivent astrology. And there has been a lot reinvented astrowheels... If u r puzzled and discontent with venus as ruler,turn to libra sign,ok,domicile doesn't work well,what does exaltation say to u? And fall,detriment? How about venus' mythology? Remember that libra was scorpio once.. Go in dept with what u got. If u r still not convinced,then break the boundaries,after studing and studing and studing...

---

Well...Western Astrology seem to be reinvented after the addition of Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto and gave them sign rulerships.

Yep.....Libra constellation was part of a larger Scorpion constellation. It was the Scorpion's Claws. The alpha and beta stars of Libra, Zuben Elgenubi and Zuben Elschamali actually mean the Southern and Northern Scorpion Claws. My Mercury is conjunct Zuben Elschamali in ecliptic longitude. The heliocentric South Mercury Node and South Mars Node in the same vicinity. My Mercury is conjunct those Nodes too.

Mainstream Western Astrology doesn't use the constellations
the symbolism of the constellations aren't the same as the tropical signs

the constellations aren't equal 12 signs like the tropical zodiac and sidereal zodiac

Even though I am Sun in tropical Scorpio and sidereal Libra, my Sun is actually in the Virgo constellation. I was born in the 2nd to the last day of Sun in the consttellation of Virgo before entering the constellation of Libra.

There is a lot of contradictions and inconsistencies in Astrology, and they are even used to argue against the validity of Astrology.

The recent astronomical discoveries even complicates matters. They don't fit neatly into Mainstream Astrological systems just like Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto don't fit neatly into systems like Vedic Astrology.

Astrologers only look at a sky in one way mostly - Ecliptic Longitude. A lot of astrologers do use declinations which are used by astronomers who also use Right Ascension. Both Declination and Right Ascension are used by astronomers regularly.
Astrologers that use the star paran system also use the Horizon coordinates. Those are based on the location of the observer.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 27, 2010 04:20 AM            

Shouldn't they get rulerships?

Sedna,Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,and Ixion fit the criteria for being dwarf planets. Shouldn't they get get rulerships?

Actually over 70 objects fit the criteria for dwarf planet status. Shouldn't they get rulerships after they get names and officially classed as dwarf planets?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dwarf_planet_candidates

Also astrologers used the "size doesn't matter" argument before when it came to Pluto and how powerful it is even though it is much smaller than the planets.

If we use the size argument to argue case for an object, it shows an inconsistency and contradiction to the argument being made.

maybe even the objects smaller than Pluto are even more powerful than Pluto even including the ones that don't qualify as dwarf planets like Rhadamanthus and Ceto which are minor transneptunian objects

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 27, 2010 04:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lotis White:
Also, another point I’d like to make is that there is no way I’m going to buy the notion that Uranus and Neptune do not rule (or at least co-rule) Signs. These to planets or so enormous that a significant influence from them can not be denied, and they fit into the same pattern of orbit around the sun as all inner planets. Uranus’ eccentric sideways rotation even perfectly explains the odd-ball like qualities of Aquarius.

---

It can be argued that some of the traits of Uranus and Neptune were given to Aquarius and Pisces. The same with Pluto to Scorpio.

btw

a lot of the objects have oddball orbits including even Pluto and Chiron.

Pluto has a highly eccentric orbit compared to Uranus. There are objects that orbit like Pluto. They are known as plutinos. There are other objects with even more eccentric orbits like scattered disk objects (Eris) and detached objects (Sedna).
Transneptunian objects tend to orbit well off the ecliptic. Uranus orbits well on the ecliptic all the time.

centaurs like Chiron have highly eccentric orbits

If Pluto is a highly eccentric object, why isn't Pluto known for being a planet of eccentricity and Scorpio being a sign of eccentricity?

You use astronomy to argue the case for Uranus and how it fits with Uranus eccentric traits and Aquarius eccentric traits. Of course, Aquarius may not necessarily have eccentric traits, but astrologers just assign Uranus traits to Aquarius.

The same argument could be used for Pluto's orbit make it have astrological characteristics. Scorpio is not known for being the oddball sign like Aquarius even though Pluto is far more eccentric than Uranus astronomically.

What does the large sizes of Neptune and Uranus have to do with their astrological influences?

Astrological community use the size doesn't matter when making an argument for Pluto's powerful influence in Astrology with it being much smaller than the other planets.

Just because a planet is big doesn't automatically mean that it should rule a sign. Obviously classical astrologers and vedic astrologers don't think so.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 27, 2010 05:01 AM            

"Prior to the naming of Eris, there existed a simple, ultra effective manner of gaining a glimpse of the insights to be rendered by the planet. This method involves a simple interpretation of the significant orbital elements of a body that can be longitudinally assessed, though heliocentric. The perihelion degree of Eris is 7 Libra 27 and the ascending node can be found at 5 Taurus 53. Given that this body is well beyond the transformational range of Pluto, the naming should have indicated some sort of resurrection or creation deity. Suggestively, this body would take the results of Pluto’s transformative efforts and shape them into something viable and contributive, completing an evolutionary ecology. Loosely, the Taurus and Libra dynamics indicate a body hell bent on transforming attitudes toward money, materialism, relationships - especially trophy relationships - and the good life. With the naming of Eris these attributes sharpened, indicating the planet’s desire to become the principal tool in the fight to overcome individual and societal addiction to status, success and a life so contrived, it can no longer be enjoyed."
http://www.philipsedgwick.com/Centaur_TNO/ErisCharts/Don%27tSnubEris.htm

It just seems that astrologers will try to fit in a new object into the system and try to compare it to a sign. Then argue how that object is like that sign,and so argue for rulership. The sign and the object might not even be alike.

Some astrologers even do that with hypothetical objects like Transpluto. Some astrologers believe that Transpluto exist, and they assign it ruler as Virgo. They argue how the traits of Transpluto and Virgo are so alike.

Transpluto based on the calculations of Planet X which were erroneously obtained by the miscalculations of Neptune's mass. That was found out in the 1990's.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 27, 2010 06:01 AM            

"As an explanation, Western astrologers claim that Neptune represents a higher octave of Venus, Uranus a higher octave of Mercury, and Pluto a higher octave of Mars. After doing this they then assign to the three planets the co-rulership of the signs Pisces, Aquarius and Scorpio respectfully. All signs are ruled by planets, by adding these three planets as co-rulers they again disturb the inner consistency of astrology. This idea of "higher octave" is fallacious. All the planets, not just Venus, Mercury and Mars, have their own higher octaves and if the astrologer actually knows the subject he can determine this. It is superfluous and clumsy to assign the higher octave of one planet to another body.

"Their assignments of Neptune and Uranus as co-rulers of Pisces and Aquarius is also inconsistent. If Neptune and Uranus are higher octaves of Venus and Mercury as Tropicalists insist, then it would be more reasonable and consistent to assume that these two planets would be the co-rulers of signs owned by Venus (Taurus and Libra) and Mercury (Gemini and Virgo). Rather Pisces is ruled by Jupiter and Aquarius is ruled by Saturn, only Pluto is assigned a share with Mars, who is the actual ruler of Scorpio.
Grammar and Syntax."

"Another point to consider is the following: What the so-called Vedic astrologers, who use them, forget is that Neptune, Uranus and Pluto have been given their definitions and attributes by Tropical astrologers not Vedic astrologers. What the Tropical astrologers did was to study the past history of Europe and America only (basically ignoring the rest of the world) and then try to correlate cycles of historical change with the transit of these planets through the tropical signs not the sidereal signs. In other words, it is a lot of guess work based on the speculations of a few imperfect Tropical astrologers at a time when Tropical astrology was very weak. Tropical astrology was practically extinct between 1700–1900. Only Pluto (discovered 1930) was found at a time when Tropical astrology was making a come back."

"The definitions of the Rasis are also very ancient. Yet advocates of the trans-Saturnian planets say that the modern planets Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto are prime factors for giving Pisces, Aquarius, and Scorpio their meaning. They will say that Pisces has its unique nature because it is ruled by both Jupiter and Neptune, meaning that Pisces has both Jupiterian and Neptunian qualities. However, the meanings of all the signs are based on a combination of factors associated with each sign: the four elements (fire, earth, air, water), three modalities (chara, sthira, ubaya—movable, fixed, common), two genders (male or female), and planetary rulers (excluding Neptune, etc.). Using these four classes in various combinations yields the meanings of the signs. Thus Scorpio has its nature because it is: female gender, water element, fixed modality, and ruled by Mars. This is necessary and sufficient to define the meaning of Scorpio. There is no need to introduce Pluto into the equation. By using such first principles, the meanings of each and every Rasi can be delineated. In this way for thousands of years astrologers have understood the meanings of all the Rasis including Scorpio, Aquarius, and Pisces. It was not that astrologers had confusion about the meaning of these three signs which were only vanquished with the introduction of the trans-Saturnian planets. Rather, they perfectly understood the meanings of all the signs. It is truly circular reasoning by the advocates of trans-Saturnian planets to say that these planets are at the basis of the meaning of these three signs (Scorpio, etc.) when in fact, the meanings existed thousands of years before the trans-Saturnian planets were discovered. In other words, the trans-Saturnian planets have nothing to do with the meanings of any signs and are of no divinatory value."

http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/fallac y_trans_saturnians/fallacy_trans-saturnians_1.html

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted December 28, 2010 03:16 AM            

My hardest time in my life which bring the new better life I be into now...That was on the time when SA Sedna was in conj to my N moon 6/nessus5 Draconic merk 6/uranus 7in gemini and in square to my N merk 7, uranus 8, kaali 9 in virgo.