posted January 02, 2011 05:36 AM            

However I sometimes find that even if the orb is very wide the energy is still felt. For example I have a wide venus/uranus opposition, 10 degrees. Yet I still feel it's energy. I find myself sabotaging my own relationships, feeling confined once I'm in one, and being uninterested in someone once they show they are interested in me as well. I look for and want a relationship but once it's labeled I start looking for my way out. I've always thought as relationships as a restriction on my freedom.

posted January 02, 2011 06:07 AM            

or

Venus contraparallel Uranus in the declinations?

also there could be a Venus oppose Uranus in right ascension (equatorial longitude)

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 02, 2011 06:13 AM            

I have Venus conjunct Neptune with 10 degree orb,and I can strongly relate to it even though it's out of orb
Venus conjunct Neptune with 10 degree orb is actually a 36th harmonic aspect which is different from a 1st harmonic aspect which is what a conjunction actually is.

but

I also have Neptune square Venus/Midheaven midpoint, Mars square Venus/Neptune midpoint, and Venus semisquare Neptune/Node midpoint

and I even have Venus parallel Neptune which has a corresponding Venus conjunct Neptune in declination equivalent longitude chart

aspects and midpoints are based on geometry and harmonics

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 02, 2011 06:28 AM            

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 02, 2011 04:02 PM            

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 02, 2011 04:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by littlecloud:
I know many people, astrologers and astrology students alike have their own methods and views on how wide an orb is until they disregard it. I think we all can agree on the fact that the tighter the orb the stronger the influence on us.

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i dont use anything greater than a 5 orb...i havent read anything else, just wanted to comment on that alone

posted January 02, 2011 04:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by NickiG:
i dont use anything greater than a 5 orb...i havent read anything else, just wanted to comment on that alone

---

I am the same way.
One of the reasons that I do that is that I look at other things like Right Ascension, Declination,and nodes of objects.

If I look at midpoints, I mainly focus on the conjunction,opposition
I believe that the ones in Right Ascension and Declination are also valid.

I look for strong themes.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 02, 2011 05:44 PM            

any ways...I understand

here

go to extended chart selection

Go to Chart drawing style, and then select Ebertin style (w midpoints)

when you get to the chart
click on view the additional tables (PDF)

it should show you PDF file list with midpoints

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 03, 2011 05:45 AM            

I got the chart. What should I look for? I don't know how to read it....

posted January 03, 2011 12:27 PM            

does Uranus aspect any of the following midpoints:
Sun/Venus
Moon/Venus
Mercury/Venus
Venus/Mars
Venus/Jupiter
Venus/Saturn
Venus/Neptune
Venus/Pluto
Venus/Midheaven
Venus/Ascendant
Venus/Node

does Venus aspect any of the following midpoints:
Sun/Uranus
Moon/Uranus
Mercury/Uranus
Mars/Uranus
Jupiter/Uranus
Saturn/Uranus
Uranus/Neptune
Uranus/Pluto
Uranus/Midheaven
Uranus/Ascendant
Uranus/Node

conjunction,opposition within 1 1/2 degree
square,semisquare,sesquiquadrate within 1 degree

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 03, 2011 01:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by staborgi:
I think astrologers need to have a more flexible view of orbs. We are more sensitive that we give ourselves credit for. Granted closer orbs are felt more acutely but I don't think you can discredit planet to planet interaction that makes a major aspect, even just by sign, if it involves the personal planets. Some astrologers just go by whole signs when determining aspects! I think a little common sense and intuitive reasoning goes a long way. My Moon and Neptune are both in Capricorn- 10 degrees apart- the Moon is super sensitive, particularly in detriment in Cap- of course it feels the pull of another planet, particularly an outer one, in the same sign. Same with my Mars- in Scorpio 10 degrees away from Pluto- again, both being co-rulers of Scorpio I know they interact.

If you've read descriptions of Venus/Uranus and they resonate with you- chances are its because they should! And I agree, a wide orb aspect might not be so acutely felt until a transit hits it.

---

That whole sign thing doesn't work with outerplanets including the transneptunian objects like Pluto and Eris.

also people probably have declination aspects and midpoint pictures that help them relate to those wide orbed aspects. Even Right Ascension can be a factor. A lot of people don't look at that stuff.

Geometry and harmonics are at the heart of Modern Mainstream Astrology.

also....I'd argue that there could be the Forer Effect which can be a case to argue against Astrology. I don't dismiss those possibilities.

I think Astrology gets sloppy,questionable when we use very wide orb aspects. Anything could be made to work.
There has to be some rules and discipline in Astrology.

Forer Effect:

The Forer effect (also called the Barnum Effect after P.T. Barnum's observation that "we've got something for everyone") is the observation that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. This effect can provide a partial explanation for the widespread acceptance of some beliefs and practices, such as astrology, fortune telling, and some types of personality tests like the Myers-Briggs test.

A related and more generic phenomenon effect is that of subjective validation.[1] Subjective validation occurs when two unrelated or even random events are perceived to be related because a belief, expectancy, or hypothesis demands a relationship. Thus people seek a correspondence between their perception of their personality and the contents of a horoscope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect
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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 03, 2011 01:23 PM            

I don't think you can ignore them entirely, even if they only play a background role in your natal or are not entirely personalized/distinct. Also we are made of up more than what we attribute to be our entirely personal selves, which is another reason I think its worth it to look at wider orbs PARTICULARLY if they involve outer planets. That's also why I don't necessarily think the Forer effect can discredit what we attribute to ourselves- we are all more similar than we think. I agree that declination aspects are not to be overlooked though, although my understanding of them is that they are more well integrated, better blended, and are not as erratic or offering of distinct experiences as other major aspects. So I don't know if sabotaging your relationships can be attributed to that? That seems a little more dynamic than the feeling I get from declinations.

posted January 03, 2011 01:32 PM            

I can relate to the following aspects in the Regular Chart which is Ecliptical Longitude
Mars in 24'54 Aquarius
square Saturn in 5'08 Gemini
square Neptune in 1'48 Sagittarius

Sun in 5'20 Scorpio
trine Mars in 25'54 Aquarius

these are well beyond the 5 degree orb that I use:

In Right Ascension which is Equatorial Longitude:

Mars in 29'01 Aquarius
square Neptune in 0'02 Aquarius
square Saturn in 3'36 Gemini

Sun in 3'02 Scorpio
trine Mars in 29'01 Aquarius

those are within the 5 degree orb that I use

I also have midpoint pictures that can also help me relate to the aspects:

for wide orbed Mars square Saturn:
Mars oppose Mercury/Saturn
Uranus oppose Mars/Saturn
Mars oppose Mercury/Neptune

for wide orbed Mars square Neptune:
Mars oppose Venus/Neptune

for wide orbed Sun trine Mars:
Pluto square Sun/Mars
Sun semisquare Mars/Uranus

another thing: the wide Sun trine Mars in the regular chart is actually a Sun-Mars golden section aspect
My Sun,Mars,and Pluto are in golden section aspect to each other, and they have a corresponding midpoint picture of Pluto square Sun/Mars

Transneptunian objects and asteroids can sometimes have a big difference

In Regular Chart:
Pluto in 0'51 Libra
trine Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini

Pallas in 2'36 Gemini R
conjunct Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini

Those would be way out of orb, especially for a transneptunian dwarf planet and an asteroid

In Right Ascension:
Pluto in 7'10 Libra
trine Midheaven in 9'40 Gemini

Pallas in 9'33 Gemini
conjunct Midheaven in 9'40 Gemini

If most Astrologers are into the big picture, they wouldn't just look at the sky from just one angle which is what they do when they just look at Ecliptical Longitude.

Ecliptical Longitude,Equatorial Latitude (Declination) and Equatorial Longitude (Right Ascension) would be used.

Astronomers use Right Ascension and Declination to locate stars too

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 03, 2011 01:43 PM            

Golden Aspects

The golden section divisions within cycles formed by the rotating earth may be considered a set of astrological aspects. The complete set emerges when we superimpose the two schematic diagrams in Figures 19 and 23, related to minor and major of the golden section, and compare all of those angles we find on the right and on the left of the origin 0°. Imagine that you are standing at the rising point R, or 0°, of the diurnal circle and are looking over to the setting point at 180°. Then the superimposed golden section divisions on your right form the set 21.25°, 42.49°, 47.51°, 68.75°, 111.25°, 132.49°, 137.51° and 158.75°. The angles 338.75°, 317.51°, 312.49° and so forth, on your left repeat the set on your right when subtracted from 360°. If we extend the fractal beyond the semicircle and include the quarter circle, the golden section operation generates the additional angles 34.38°, 55.62°, 124.38° and 145.62°. It is not an arbitrary procedure to divide cycles in halves and quarters. Observation shows that spectral peaks can appear at twice and four times the driving frequency, or at half or a quarter of it (Burroughs, 1992). Statistical tests indicate that the twelve golden aspects in the complete set are reliable. http://bourabai.narod.ru/landscheidt/consider.htm

when 3 objects are in golden section aspect to each other to form a triangle, they also have a corresponding midpoint picture

Therefore, those objects share a certain harmonic, but it's not a whole number harmonic.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 03, 2011 01:59 PM            

for example

My Mercury is in 18'21 Scorpio
Mars in 25'54 Aquarius

that's not an actual square

It's a triundecile with an orb of 37 minutes
I have other planets that aspect that form 11th harmonic aspect patterns

a triundecile is 98'10

that's an 11th harmonic
3/11

11th harmonic is associated with rebellion,instability,and social consciousness

My Uncle Eddie has a Moon triundecile Neptune under 1 degree. He doesn't have a Moon square Neptune which wide orb astrologers like Liz Greene would say that he has.

other examples of wide orbed major aspects which are actually different harmonic

Biundecile (65'27),an 11th harmonic aspect, 2/11 often get viewed as a sextile

Binovile (80'00), a 9th harmonic aspect, 2/9 often get viewed as a square

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No..I am not a Virgo.