posted January 06, 2011 03:43 AM            

Do you know the person?

My own chart looks like the chart of a potential serial killer, but it can also be the chart of a healer

it depends on the choices that people make

free will is the ultimate factor

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 03:55 AM            

The Jupiter in Aries in the 8th in trine to a Venus conj Saturn..I wouldn't want to see that person too stressed if you get my drift. Maybe if the person does tend toward violence (as seen in their past behavior) it would be directed toward those in their home.

Almost everything in the chart keeps going back to this person's home and their obsessive thoughts...Does he go home to just ruminate over and over?

With all the energy concentrated in the 3rd I can see him having some pretty interesting conversations with others..
As to acting out on anything....I wouldn't say so, but I wouldn't want to say yes or no without seeing the person, knowing what they are about.

If you're asking about classic violent aspects for a chart, I don't see them in his. Passion, yes.

EDIT TO ADD,
Then again one thing I've noticed about the Pluto in Scorpio generation is that they put a face over their anger, and either it eats away at them from the inside, or becomes...transmuted into their aims, what they're driving towards, in a single-minded way..
Well look first at how your subject uses his energy, and then read the chart.

posted January 06, 2011 04:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hmm:
with mars in libra i really think that cools things down
my dad has a whole of scorpio, and aries, etc
but he has a libra mars, also lilith libra....
he's the least scaries person i know ....and i (as a total newbie) attributied it to that....

@glaucus....free will really?? being so into astrology you're the last person i would have thought would bring up free will!

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yeah..free will really

as for my being the last person,you think would bring up free will, you obviously don't know me

anybody who has known me for at least a year knows how I am in regards to my strong belief in free will as the ultimate factor

Being an astrologer doesn't mean that I don't believe in free will. I hate those types of arguments that skeptics use to discredit Astrology in that a practicing Astrology goes against free will.

I also tend to be more psychological in my approach to Astrology.

Carl Jung, Liz Greene, Glenn Perry have influenced me as a psychological type of Astrologer

Evolutionary/Transformational Astrology, I was influenced by Steven Forrest, Stephen Arroyo,and Jeffrey Wolf Green

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 04:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hmm:
@glaucus
idk...lol...i'm too scared to argue with you...
but i know you buy into transits, and planitary influcences on us, and other astrological notions...
our free will may not have been taken away from us completely, but you can't deny that it has been tampered with....from there it's just a matter of how much.

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ummm

I believe Astrology because of synchroncity.
That's why I even mentioned Carl Jung as one of my influences.

I don't believe in cause and effect in Astrology.

I don't even like using words like "this so and so aspect makes me so and so"

Just because a person believes in the use of transits and other measurements doesn't mean that they believe in cause and effect in Astrology. That's the same with stuff like Numerology, Tarot,and other methods of divination.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 04:26 AM            

I mean what I say when I believe in free will.

This is stuff that I don't B.S. about it.

If there was no way that Astrology can have room for free will, I wouldn't even be an astrologer. I believe that we human beings make our destiny and future.

There is saying that astrologers have said
"Stars don't compel. They impel"

If I mess up, I blame myself and acknowledge myself as fault. I don't blame anything astrological.

I take responsibility for my own actions,and I hold myself accountable.

I view transits,secondary progressions,and solar arcs,and other measurements as in synchroncity with psychological states that we are in. During certain psychological states, we have the free will to act in a way that mirrors our psychological state which is in synchronicity with the astrological measurements.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 04:39 AM            

i'm not really equiped (with knowlege) to be able to argue with you, but my gut, intuition, feeling, etc tell me we don't and those are things that i trust to get around in life
(maybe it's my 12 house mercury..lol jk)

i know it talkes more about horarys, but free will is mentioned (or lack there of) http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html

posted January 06, 2011 04:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lonake:
No one's asking my opinion but I'll give it,
cos I'm in a sharing mood
I believe at our lowest common denominator we are our natal. That is, if we sit on our thumbs and do nothing.
In the end it is all just energy, that can be transmuted at will with enough strength and focus.
The crux is that humans aren't that quick to change, or admit fault. Thankfully they don't like to admit defeat, either, which usually keeps them trudging along, fighting the good fight for whatever they desire.

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I definitely agree with that!

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 04:52 AM            

He stated the following:

Four important properties of aspects which are taken into consideration in cosmobiology are:

The combination of the unique characteristic of each planet involved.

The role in a particular aspect plays in relation to the entire chart as a unit.

How the individual chooses to react in given circumstances (positively or negatively).

Environmental conditions

He said that the degree of hard difficulty presented by hard aspects is determined by the definitions of the planets involved. He said that the means by which the influences are manifested depends upon several factors, including the environment, genetic makeup, sociological-political conditions and the reaction of the individual in a positive or negative matter.

That's all from page 20 of COSMOBIOLOGY FOR THE 21ST by Eleonora Kimmel.

I consider all those factors when I use any astrological system.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 05:02 AM            

I first got this book back in 1999,and it strongly influenced how I thought about aspects after I got into Astrology in 1998.

page ix

These key words should then be understood as a description of one portion of the whole. Many opportunities for development are concealed in every aspect in the chart. However,how, and to what degree, they are manifested, and what level they attain always depends upon the personality's degree of maturity--precisely this factor is not revealed in the horoscope. This is why we have also consciously dispensed with stating the commonly made differentiation between good and bad, easy and difficult, harmonious and tension-laden, auspicious and misfortune-bringing configurations. Such definitions are foolish. We have seen horoscopes that were full of so-called harmonious aspects, yet the people affected were caught up in deep crises in life. Life simply ran on without meaning. Nothing had challenged them and/or even forced them to make something of their lives. Everything was simply easy and superficial, and after a certain point in time it became unbearable.

On the other hand, it is widely known that the horoscopes of great personalities are charged with tensions. For this reason, we have described all the horoscope factors in their polar tensions as strengths and problem areas--or for the aspects--as harmony and discord. We have followed the development from the obstruction to the solution solely in the case of Saturn, the Lord of Time (Cronos). It may certainly be true that a difficult astrological configuration, such as a planet positioned in "detriment" or in "fall," or irritated or impaired by difficult aspects (such as a square or opposition) initially attracts attention from its critical side. Yet, there is not only the possibility of transformation, but also the responsibility to transform, in each of these configurations. From the astrological perspective, the horoscope describes the starting situation in which we being our life on Earth. Now our task is polishing ourselves against our various tensions until we succeed in uniting all the original discord into a great harmonious symphony.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 05:06 AM            

I felt the need to post this. I get the impression that some believe in cause and effect in Astrology in that celestial events causes earthly events. I believe that celestial events are in a meaningful parallel to earthly events. In other words, I believe in synchronicity.

I am mainly into psychological astrology,and that is based on a synchronistic model of Astrology that seemed to stem from Carl Jung's psychological theories. Carl Jung used Astrology for psychological insights. He is the father of psychological Astrology.

here is some stuff from psychological astrologer, Dr. Glenn Perry. I got his psychological astrology textbooks in 1999. They are the ones that helped me understand Astrology in depth to the point that I became a psychologically oriented type of astrologer that can use Astrology to help understand human personalities and gain insights into their psyches. He was my favorite astrologer for years. I bought Solar Fire in 1999 because he recommended it in his book.

The Birth of Psychological Astrology

By Glenn Perry, Ph.D.

Rudhyar was the first to recognize how astrology and humanistic psychology complemented one another. The chart, in effect, could be utilized as a tool for mapping the complex inner world that humanists were starting to explore. Just as humanistic psychology was a response to the determinism inherent in psychoanalysis and behaviorism, humanistic astrology was a response to the determinism inherent in traditional, event-oriented astrology. Borrowing from Carl Roger's (1951) Client-Centered Therapy, Rudhyar (1972) developed Person-Centered Astrology. Rudhyar was less concerned with whether astrology works than on how it could be utilized to assist the process of self-actualization. The real question was, given that astrology works what is its proper use?

In 1969 Rudhyar founded the International Committee for Humanistic Astrology and declared that astrology was, or should be, primarily a technique for understanding human nature. He decried the implicit determinism of predictive astrology and focused instead on astrology's potential as a symbolic language. Instead of seeing planets as transmitters of physical influence, Rudhyar saw them as symbolic of human functions. As a psychological language and diagnostic tool, astrology could serve as a guide to the integration and transformation of personality. Rudhyar's approach was "person-centered" in the sense that every birthchart was unique; a horoscope represented the individual's total potential in which no planet was "good" or "bad" but rather each element was part of an organic whole. Events were not interpreted as isolated occurrences with fortunate or unfortunate effects, but as purposeful, phase-specific manifestations of developmental cycles. An event derived its meaning from the stage it represented in a given planetary cycle and contributed to an ongoing process of growth that lead inexorably toward self-realization.

In the 1970's, the humanistic banner was taken up by such astrologers as Ziporah Dobyns, Richard Idemon, Stephen Arroyo, Robert Hand, and others. Humanistic astrologers asserted that there is no absolute separation between human and divine; rather, people and planets are woven into the same seamless web of being. Every individual is a focus and channel for the numinous energies that permeate the entire cosmos. Consciousness, not matter, is the primary reality of the Universe. As the human psyche is both reflective of and embedded within the Universal Psyche, it partakes of the creative power of this parent Consciousness. The psyche is bound and animated by the laws and formative principles of the One Being of which all lesser beings are parts. While the universal laws of Absolute Being cannot be violated, the individual is free and self-determining within the boundaries of these laws.

Rudhyar held that each person was born in response to a need of the Universe at a particular time and place. The birth chart, in effect, represents the solution to this need; i.e., it reveals the purpose of the life and the key to one's destiny. Put another way, the horoscope is like a "seed-plan" that shows a person's unique path of development. Just as a seed packet depicts a picture of the plant that the enclosed seeds may eventually become, so the horoscope symbolizes the kind of adult that the individual may become. In this view, nothing occurs in a human life except for a purpose, and this purpose is the purpose of the whole acting through the individual. This whole is often referred to as the core Self, the indwelling divinity that is rooted in a living, purposive universe. The question then becomes not what is going to happen, but what is its meaning? Astrology, said Rudhyar, can be utilized as a kind of karma yoga in which everything that happens is related to who the person is and what he or she may become. Thus the humanistic astrologer should not be concerned with events per se, but only with the response or meaning that the client gives to them. "It is not the predictable events which are important, but the attitude of the individual person towards his own growth and self-fulfillment" (1972, p. 54).

The advantage of the birth-chart is that it depicts the individual as a whole and thus provides a means for understanding how internal conflicts result in personality fragmentation and the exteriorization of conflict. Individuals split off and deny certain parts of themselves when the needs that underlay the expression of these parts meet with pain and frustration. Various functions get repressed and projected, and thus the individual is reduced to only part of what he or she potentially is. Unintegrated functions are typically experienced in the outer world in the guise of people and situations the individual attracts. What the individual experiences as a problematic situation or relationship can be seen in the chart as an aspect of his or her own psyche. In this way, the horoscope indicates what functions have been denied and projected, and through what circumstances (houses) they will likely be encountered.

While the birthchart provides insight into the client's internal conflicts, it is transits and progressions that tell us when these conflicts will be targeted for healing. These planetary movements indicate the nature, meaning, and duration of various developmental periods, each of which presents its own challenges and opportunities. While transits may correlate with outer events that seem to impinge upon the individual, astrology suggests that these events are the synchronous external manifestation of inner changes. In other words, environment and psyche are reflections of one another. The outer events serve as the trigger or stimulus to promote inner psychological growth. Seen in this way, transits reveal those parts of a person's nature which are ready to be consciously integrated, explored or transformed.

To re-engage a split-off part usually results in crisis since it means that the old order has to die in order for a new, more inclusive order to emerge. The humanistic astrologer, says Rudhyar (1975),

welcomes crises as signs of growth. He attempts to help the client or patient to reorient himself toward the causes of the crisis, to reassesses his goals as well as his motives, to accept what is, but in a new and holistic manner...which eventually should lead to harmony, inner peace, wisdom and compassion. (p. 56-7)
The value of astrology, then, is not its power to predict what the gods have in store for humans, but its ability to reveal the god-like powers that reside in the depths of every human being. Accordingly, the focus in humanistic astrology is inward, not outward, and interpretations are made in terms of personal growth and fulfillment. Simply put, the goal is to help the client realize the potentials that are symbolized by the horoscope. For example, Saturn opposed Venus in the natal chart indicates not simply "misfortune in love," but the potential to love deeply, enduringly, and responsibly along with the patience and determination to overcome obstacles. While realization of this potential may require a certain amount of hardship and suffering, to predict only hardship and suffering with no understanding of the potential gains involved is shortsighted at best and damaging at worst. Dobyns (1973) put it this way:

Telling people they are fated to experience specific negative events can be highly destructive. The view taken here is that character is destiny, and that by changing our character (our habitual attitudes, beliefs, and actions) we can change our destiny. With self-knowledge, we can integrate conflicts, overcome weaknesses, further develop talents, and move toward balance. As humanistic psychology puts it, we can achieve self-actualization and self-transcendence. (p. 2)
In many ways, humanistic astrology represents a genuine advancement in the theory of humanistic psychology. Both Jungian and humanistic psychologies have been criticized for their lack of precision in describing the inner nature of the human being. References to archetypes, faculties, functions, impulses and the like tend to be vague and speculative, with no concrete referents for outlining in a systematic manner the structure of the psyche. Humanistic psychology is more a set of attitudes toward the person than a precise and useful theory of personality and human growth. Astrology, on the other hand, provides objective predictable correlates for the structure and dynamics of the psyche while also indicating the directions that growth might occur. The person with Saturn opposed Venus, for example, may shift over time from a negative, fearful attitude toward relationships, e.g., "I will resist being controlled by my domineering partner," to one of responsible and loyal commitment. Such a shift would reflect a more mature, realistic attitude toward relationship, e.g., "a good marriage requires patience, humility, and hard work," while still being consistent with the astrological meaning of Saturn opposed Venus. http://www.aaperry.com/index.asp?pgid=20

Raymond

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 05:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hmm:
@glaucus
fair enough...but i feel that astrology is present in all of those things....you genetic make up is determined by astrlogy (why do u see so many posts here with people posting pictures and guessing -pretty accuratly- the asc moon sun etc of the person)
environment (your natal chart affects how you view your 'subjective' envirionment, it affects what enviroment you're attracted to therefore shape you, etc)
SES (we can say that it's influenced by by our motivation, our determination, etc)

so you can't just say SES....astrlogy determins that too....or outside forces at least

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I don't really agree with all that

You can't tell a person's ethnic group(s), sexuality, gender from looking at an astrological chart. You can't tell a person's hair type (kinky,curly,wavy,straight) from an astrological chart. Skin color can't be seen by looking at a natal chart. Also things like things like broad noses,narrow noses,etc. can't be seen in a natal chart.

even things like psychiatric disorders,neurological differences can't be seen in a natal chart. Those things have strong similiarities with each others

things like righthandedness,lefthandedness,ambidexterity, cross-dominance can't be seen in a chart either

things like nearsightedness,farsightedness,and astigmatism cannot be seen in a chart

genetic diseases cannot be seen in a chart

oh genes,chromosomes cannot be seen in a chart

I share a Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Pisces, Ascendant in Virgo combination with a woman. She is fairskinned, blonde hair and blue eyes, and she looks nothing like me.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 05:21 AM            

they are not like fortune tellers

check out some of Noel Tyl's stuff
He's clearly a psychological astrologer

Liz Greene is definitely too.

Those are two of the foremost astrologers in the world.

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No..I am not a Virgo.

posted January 06, 2011 05:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hmm:
@ Lonake:
yeah, but not all humans have the same capasity to fight or strenght (their astrological profile descides that).
not all are motivated to fight equally (astrological profile)
how often are they're forced to fight (again pre determined)

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