posted January 29, 2011 01:19 AM            

Found this interesting take among my web-trawlings

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Synastry Studies: Rethinking Venus/Saturn

In my advanced synastry class, we go beyond traditional aspect comparisons and learn to look at individual psycho-sexual dynamics to determine why we attract the partners we do.

One of the things that always evolves from the class is how active and vital Saturn is in chart interactions. Most people approach Saturn in synastry as a necessary but bitter pill that must be swallowed in order for there to be some kind of longevity in the relationship. Even if we don’t look at him with dread, we furrow our brows when we notice where he falls. Saturn in synastry gets blamed for all kinds of things–shattered illusions, betrayals, power struggles, abandonment–that don’t belong on his square shoulders at all. His glamorous outer planet brothers seem to get away with murder, and never take on that kind of flak. It always amazes me how often students dump on Saturn placements, when most often it’s Uranus, Neptune or Pluto who deserve the blame. But honestly, given the choice of an aspect between charts, I’d take, say, Moon opposite Saturn way before I’d take Uranus, Neptune or Pluto there. Saturn can be reasoned with. Not like the killer trio. Saturn needs some new PR.

One of the reasons we abhor Saturn is that he doesn’t let us get away with anything. In this, he is definitely the strict parent who knows us inside and out, especially when we tell him we’re going to the library when we really have plans to stay out way past our bed time. Saturn is the one who pushes us to work harder when we feel like being lazy. Saturn is the one who nags us about the right things at the right times. Saturn can behave this way in relationships, too, and it takes a very mature individual to appreciate it, especially if Saturn is acting out of genuine regard and not just projecting his own issues onto us.

Saturn is diligent. If we ignore what he tells us and what he expects of us, he will wait and bring us the same lessons later, only this time it will be harder, because our behaviour has become more entrenched with time. Time. Now there is a good Saturn word. Saturn knows that we only have this one life (as far as we know for sure) and the clock is ticking. There are things we need to accomplish, things we need to learn. Tick tock. Tick tock.

When Saturn is working well, he works hand in hand with the Moon. This is the natural cardinal pairing of Cancer/Capricorn, which is as natural a partnership as Aries/Libra. Cardinal signs initiate, and one of the things they initiate is partnership. Moon/Saturn also represents the ‘other’ angle, the MC/IC, which is the spine of the chart and crucial in partnership. (See the series on the MC/IC, and Beyond Mom and Dad, Saturn as a Relationship Planet.) Moon/Saturn is how we fashion our consciousness, our raw psychic material, into concrete accomplishment. Moon/Saturn hard contacts within a natal chart are so painful because we sense that what we have, what we were born with, is not adequate enough for us to create what we want. We feel we are hobbled before we begin the race. It takes a lot of inner work, and a lot of interaction with the outside world, before the two can work together.

I consider all of the rulers of the cardinal signs relationship planets. Not that the other planets don’t affect partnerships–they do, intensely. But the ‘prime movers’ of relationship are Venus, Mars, Moon, and Saturn. (This is very clearly seen via progression.) The Sun is a relationship planet as well, particularly paired with the Moon, but the Sun operates in a dimension beyond day to day reality, and is, quite frankly, hard for us to get hold of. We feel it (if we’re lucky), we identify with it, but we can’t really manipulate its energy or work with it the way we can with the inner planets. (For more on the Sun, see the five part series, “The Mystery of Solar Fire.”) We’re infused with the Sun, but we have no power over it. It has plans for us we’re not allowed to discover until the time is right. There’s that word again. Time. That’s Saturn’s realm.

We all identify with each one of these planets, but they will also play a role in giving us an idea of the opposite sex. If we toss them around, and pair a masculine planet with a feminine one, we get some very interesting combinations. Two of the most intense are two that are rarely discussed. One is Moon/Mars, which I’ve talked about before, both here and in a two part article for Sasstrology.com–steamier, more intense, more intimate and yes, a little scarier, than Venus/Mars. But the real black sheep of the bunch is Venus/Saturn. If you’re not aware of Venus/Saturn as a relationship magnet, it can hit you blindside.

In the words of Liz Green, from her book “Saturn, A New Look at an Old Devil,” (one of the greatest books on Saturn)–sorry, I have to paraphrase a bit, because my copy isn’t where I am right now–when Saturn sees something it wants, it can act like “the most inflamed Mars.” I’ve remembered that phrase ‘like the most inflamed Mars’ from the first time I read it. No one thinks of Saturn that way. And yet, in practice, over the years, I’ve seen him do just that, over and over and over again. Why? The secret of Saturn, and the Saturn/Moon combination, is that Saturn needs. He knows what he has to do, and the clock is ticking. If you have what he needs, he will court you like a lovesick swain. His love is genuine, desperate. Tick tock.

What Saturn wants is Venus. All that grace, all that gentility, all that beauty, is a balm to his harsh existence. When Venus touches Saturn, he is no longer the builder, the taskmaster, the responsible one. In Venus’s presence he can become the master craftsman, the artist. His work has a purpose beyond the mundane. He can take the raw materials of Venus, her beauty, her desire, and use them to achieve his purpose in an elevated and more gentle manner. Venus encourages him to share his skills and experience. Venus wants to be desired, and she senses his need. Remember that Saturn is exalted in Libra.

But Saturn/Venus doesn’t pounce, as Mars/Venus might and Mars/Moon often does. (Mars/Moon is a contact between two primal forces, where Saturn/Venus is much more sophisticated.) Saturn will court. Saturn will spend time. Saturn will feed your cat when you’re away and mend your loose wiring and fill your refrigerator on top of it. When you return, Saturn will hold your hand and talk to you through the night and stoically suppress sighs of longing–until one day when you trust him utterly and he’s certain he won’t be rejected, he will pounce. Saturn can wait forever where Venus is concerned. Saturn is desperate for appreciation, and appreciation is what Venus does best. This is always a very sensual tie, no matter what sign it falls in. The earthy, Taurean side of Venus is a natural match for the equally earthy Saturn. And they will want the best of everything for and from one another, and they are both very security-minded planets. With the hard aspects there will be more striving, and more tussling for rewards (internal and external), but the same underlying desire will be there.

As with all aspects, nothing can be taken out of context. Problems come when either of the planets is debilitated in the natal. If the person with the Saturn has a Saturn placement that causes it to be full of fear and defensiveness, if it constantly feels inadequate and suppressed, it will take it out on Venus, who will feel hurt and betrayed, and surmise that Saturn’s desire was a lie. If the Venus person’s self-confidence is on the brink, or if the person’s Venus is dominated by Uranus, Neptune or Pluto, Saturn may never obtain the security it desires, and may be shocked when the outer planet steamroller rides into town and his once accommodating partner shows herself to be elusive or manipulative. Sometimes, though rarely, the planets only want a specific thing from one another, to learn a specific lesson, and once that lesson is learned the attraction cools. That can happen with any planetary inter-aspect, but the fallout here can be devastating, because of the trust involved, and the whispered promises of forever, which can be very loud when these two connect.

The most common thing I hear when I see a Venus/Saturn inter-aspect is, “We didn’t do anything the first night we spent together. We just held one another.” That’s what Venus/Saturn is doing. Holding on in the dark of the night, remaining in the here and now, taking joy from the warmth and the comfort.

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posted January 29, 2011 01:25 AM            

Kat

posted January 29, 2011 06:10 AM            

With Venus/Saturn connections the Saturn person may tremendously admire the Venus person’s grace, beauty and charm, while Venus greatly appreciates Saturn’s strength and dedication. When the synastry works constructively Saturn may go out of his way to make himself indispensable to Venus in practical ways as a way of showing his love. If Saturn is the male and Venus the female, Saturn is like a chivalrous gentleman courting the fair maiden, Venus, with formality and respect. Venus may look up to Saturn and see him as accomplished and worldly, and in time come to love how he is always there for her. While Saturn, who is completely enamored with Venus, feels as if he would do anything for her. The story is similar if the sexes are reversed. Charming pretty boy Venus has at last been tamed by his Saturn girl. Most likely, boy Venus has immense respect Saturn girl and sees her as being a ‘real lady’, worthy of being treated with dignity and reverence. She is the type of girl that he could depend on and trust, and with whom he’d finally want to get serious. Saturn girl, on the other hand, is so in love with boy Venus’ charms that she and is wholeheartedly dedicated to their relationship, regardless of any difficulties they face. If you think of the Capricorn/Taurus trine and the fact that Saturn is exalted in Libra then Venus/Saturn aspects start to make a lot more sense as being a positive influence. We have the mutual appreciation of the good things in life that material success brings, and the simple earthy sensuality, of the Capricorn/Taurus trine. As well as the diplomacy and maturity of the Saturn/Libra connection.

With Moon/Saturn aspects Saturn is like a respected father who is firm but loving, and the Moon is like a tender mother who is vulnerable and nurturing. Often times, the Moon may see Saturn as being much more worldly and experienced then themselves, and may in fact be a little in awe of Saturn’s accomplishments. Saturn, in turn, may see the moon’s innocent vulnerability and feel very protective of them. The opposition of Cancer and Capricorn says a lot about how these aspects work. The moon in her true nature can be too changeable and flow from one emotional extreme to another, and Saturn is like a rock solid anchor for the moon, buffering the her against her own extremes. Intuitively the moon knows she needs this strong steadying presence. Saturn, conversely, sometimes feels like he is too rigid and hard, and needs the moons tender softening influence to help loosen his amour against the world. The moon’s compassion and nurturing ways may touch Saturn, soothing and relaxing him, so that his outlook is not so severe. The moon teaches Saturn about the importance of feelings, while Saturn teaches the moon about the importance of practicality. Symbolically Saturn is the hard outer shell, and ones public persona, while the moon in our inner feelings and most private refuge. Together they complete each other. Saturn often desires to shield and protect the moon, while the moon is the supportive ‘power behind the thrown’ giving Saturn the strength and inspiration to succeed.

Then of course there is the other side of Saturn synastry where painful experiences such as rejection and disapproval come to fore. If Saturn is feeling inadequate he may feel he is unworthy of Venus or Moon’s attention and reject her before she can rejection him. With hard aspects, there may still be feelings of dedication, but Saturn may feel it’s his duty to change something about the Venus or Moon person. For example, Saturn may say to Venus “you’re beautiful but you need to change your ways”. Still even with hard aspects I believe Saturn brings strength to a relationship. Heartfelt loyalty and tenacity are what Saturn gives. Also, I strongly suspect that Saturn oppositions are a little easier to deal with then squares. Again, Saturn is exalted in Libra, the natural sign of the Dsc, which fits very well with the symbolism of an opposition. In keeping with this, Saturn is especially good at being ‘reasonable’ and ‘mature’ about compromise in relationships. With Saturn, even in hard aspects, there is usually a healthy willingness to work on issues together and find fair solutions.

Who says Saturn is not romantic…

Saturn is like a firm steady hand on your shoulder reminding you what needs to be done, and loyally standing by you no matter what obstacles cross your paths together. Some friends only stick around for the good times, but when things aren’t fun anymore they run. Saturn is that part of our natures that is wise enough to know that the tough times come and go and that no one is at there best all the time. Saturn will stick with you through the difficult times, and work with you step by step until you overcome your setbacks. Saturn can look at you and see your potential with a realistic eye, and work with you to help you achieve your full potential. Saturn is dedicated, supportive love. While Saturn can be notoriously concerned with his own ambition and security needs, he also cares very much about the ambitions and security needs of his loved ones. He genuinely wants you to shine and be the best you can be, and he cares greatly about your safety and welfare. Saturn is like a dependable father who feels responsible for taking care of you. When Saturn says ‘for life’ he means it.

And just for the record, I am a Sun in Capricorn, Moon in Cancer, with a Sag Venus in tight trine to Saturn.

Please Note: When speaking of the planets I have used the planets astrological ‘gender’ for the sake of simplicity but please keep in mind that the aspects work the same way regardless of gender of the actual people involved.

posted January 29, 2011 06:26 AM            

Lotis White, WOW!! Wonderful post, thank you.

posted January 30, 2011 01:37 PM            

Does it always have to be "negative" aspects?

posted January 30, 2011 04:55 PM            

It also depends on your natal chart. If a person has many hard aspects nataly, they are likely to attract synastries with more hard aspects as they are used to that stress level as their norm. If a person only had one or two hard aspect in their chart (or even none), too many hard aspects is a real shock to their system and will wear them out. Although, sometimes people with very ‘soft’ natal charts do need a hard aspect or two to spur them into action. One or two stimulating hard aspects are good in any synastry (especially if they are mixed in with a strong base of soft aspects), but from that point onwards you need to be your own judge of what you need based on your own natal chart.

AmethystOrnella,

Are the squares in your synastry within tight orbs or are they just square by sign?

posted January 30, 2011 11:23 PM            

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Originally posted by LadyAries*:
Does anyone have experience with Sun trine Saturn?

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In synastry, yes.

The Saturn person considers the Sun to be a natural partner and is very inclined towards a relationship with them esp if Saturn was afflicted in the natal, then it becomes like a balm to Saturn's heart

posted January 31, 2011 12:27 AM            

Thank you Saturn, I have fallen in love with you too now!

Kat

posted January 31, 2011 01:34 AM            

If the only tight square in your synastry is Moon square Jupiter, then you don’t really have much to worry about. As far as squares go this is a pretty happy one, although you may find him to be too blunt on occasion. Jupiter squares are usually joy and enthusiasm, and also exaggeration and silliness.

posted January 31, 2011 10:01 AM            

Lotis white, as usual, WOW!!!! and great you have moon in cancer... my favorite people lol

posted January 31, 2011 05:56 PM            

is its a no-******** planet to have in synastry.

a reason why perhaps people fear or dislike it, is because unlike other issues stemming from hard synastry aspects, saturn seems to present many that a mature, couple may be used to dealing with.

younger hearts, less than serious relationships will be challenged by it i think, i guess it depends on maturity on both individuals behalf.

if theres a planet taht will let you know if you two are not meantto be together, its probably saturn.

hard aspects are going to make you battle with some problems that light hearted fluffy stuff just can't go near.

posted January 31, 2011 06:04 PM            

Kat

posted January 31, 2011 08:45 PM            

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Originally posted by woah cakes:
i dunno if this was mentioned yet but liz greene's take on venus saturn synastry is awesome (in the book saturn: a new look at an old devil).

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The author mentioned it in the above article