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Author Topic:   Synastry: Who loves more?
bonadea33
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posted March 14, 2011 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe I have posted this Topic, already but don't remember.

Here is Synastry Chart between George Sand and Frederic Chopin. He loved her until death; she left him without any explanation. She was his Great Love; he was for her one of many men in her life.

Synastry Chart: Sand and Chopin

Date of birth for Chopin is February 22nd and not March 1st.

Bobbie

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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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bonadea33
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posted March 14, 2011 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the Chart are many aspects that show love between them.

Double trine between Venus and Jupiter show that their relationship gave each other some kind of better image: she had young very talented musician as a lover and he had one of the best writer in France (in that time).
Her Sun sextile his ASC and his Sun conjunction her ASC: double sign that they enjoyed being with each other.

Both ASC almost in conjunction with other DESC: typical for relationship between two people.

Why he loved more: his Saturn trine her Venus shows, how much he wanted to stay with her, for ever. From other side, her Saturn has no aspects at all to his planets. She was the person (she said so): when I don't love anymore, I am leaving the man without any explanation.

The sign that they won't stay together, for ever are also both Uranus: both have only squares (here doesn't help his Moon conjunction her Uranus - in fact helps to be left).

Bobbie

p.s. I have read three books about Sand and Chopin: about her, about him and together.


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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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Ami Anne
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posted March 14, 2011 08:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bobbie
I notice the 12th house synastry. Could you comment on that ?
Please share as much as you can on what it feels like to each person.
Who feels it more,if you could say.
His planets were in her 12th house.
Perhaps, the planet person feels it more.
I am looking forward to your comments as you are a much better astrologer than I am
x o x

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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
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bonadea33
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posted March 14, 2011 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami,

12th house shows some karma relationship, connected with past life.

You see here his Venus, Mercury and Chiron in her 12th house: I would say that he was the person, who made her lots of pains in past life, regarding love (Venus and Chiron).
Maybe she has suffered before and in that life he was the one, who suffered a lot.

After she left him, he didn't know what to do; he went to England with one aristocratic woman that offered him all. She was the woman (probably in love with him - there is no word about love) with the money and influence and tried to give him courage to start with his career, there. He didn't like climate in England; he wanted back to France, to die in France. He was sick (had always weak health) and in England his health became worse.

So, he returned back to Paris and after short time, he died there.

In fact his life (without George Sand) had no more sense.

Very sad story: he was high sensitive and romantic; she was just opposite to him and enjoyed her life with the new man, much younger than she was.
There were more men in her life, later as she lived pretty long time (for 19th Century).

WL, Bobbie

p.s. Ami, don’t call me Astrologer. I am not that. I love Synastry and always asked myself, why two people are together.

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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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Ami Anne
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posted March 14, 2011 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bobbie,dear,my question is more about 12th house synastry for THIS life.
He was the planet person. She was the house person.
Can the house person leave the planet person more easily.
Does the planet person have more of the emotional investment in the relationship?
Thank you Bobbie

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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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bonadea33
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posted March 14, 2011 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami,

Many people have some planet from other person in their 12th house. I had two very important men in my life: one with Neptune and other with Venus in my 12th house.
It is hidden house; it is house of the past life; it is house, where you don't know, what other person thinks; house of hidden enemies and so on.

I will try to find more about 12th house Synastry, but don't believe there is much about that.

I personally like more planets on the ASC or in 7th house (DESC).

Bobbie

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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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Ami Anne
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posted March 14, 2011 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Bobbie
I will look ,too

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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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GrlyGirl20
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posted March 14, 2011 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GrlyGirl20     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Why he loved more: his Saturn trine her Venus shows, how much he wanted to stay with her, for ever. From other side, her Saturn has no aspects at all to his planets. She was the person (she said so): when I don't love anymore, I am leaving the man without any explanation.

Actually this isn't true...her Saturn aspects his Mars by about 4 degrees...you have to take a look at the aspect grid (and it is an out of sign opposition). Also her Saturn was inconjunct his Venus by less than 1 degree. These are indeed Saturn aspects and your claim that her Saturn touched nothing in his chart is simply not true. Also inconjunct and Oppositions are just as important as any Saturn aspect. The aspect doesn't matter so much, as much as the fact that there is something of his touching her Saturn (may it be a Trine to his MC or conjunction to her Moon for example).

For future reference maybe look at the aspect grid and it will show what might not jump out at you on first glance.

I also wouldn't put too much weight on her Uranus Conjunct his Moon, as his Uranus was Square her Venus. So there is a DW and shows its not really one sided (as in one person leaves the other is devastated...in this case it would be mutual erratic behavior). His Saturn was Trine her Venus and Opposite her Mercury.

In fact in terms of why he stuck it out and she didn't I'm more inclined to look at the composite between the two because this is the chart of the actual relationship and not how two people got along (which is the synastry). Actually the synastry is VERY good and may show that they did in fact get along. However the composite could show why someone gained more from a relationship or wanted more. In the composite the Sun (which is typically represented by the male) is touching Saturn by an opposition. And the Moon which is typically the female is touching Mercury, Venus, and Jupiter. This could be thought of as the female saw the relationship as fun and lighthearted and very loving...and not at all heavy and needing of commitment as did the male. She would probably retain warm feelings for the male but wouldn't be compelled to need a commitment such as the male.

Also another thing to take into consideration is these dates and times may not be accurate. They were hundreds of years ago so the possibility they aren't accurate is probably very high.

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racole12
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posted March 14, 2011 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for racole12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
is Uranus aspects ever good in synastry? What is there are some strong Saturn aspects... wouldn't Uranus help out with that?

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted March 14, 2011 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont think it depends much on the synastry or composite. I think it depends on someone's natal chart, because if someone is loyal they will be loyal to everyone even if the relationship is not working out as planned (as someone was talking about in the thread about capricorn loyalty for example). If they're not, they will find it difficult to be loyal to anyone just the same.

I had a composite and synastry with a libra with taurus moon woth lots and lots of positive saturn contacts. After a year of being best friends...he just stopoed talking to me and still pretends to be friends to this day, makes fun of me behind my back and still treats me as a friend, but i found out from someone who was nice enough to tell me (a scorpio) that he isn't really my friend.


Not the first time an air sign supposed best friend talks about me behind my back either

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annaf
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posted March 14, 2011 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for annaf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, but I find it extremely difficult, to say the least, to make a synastry analysis based on any historical figures or any celebrities for that matter and judge who loved more. The reality of their relationship is nothing we can judge upon with any certainty as we can only judge the nature of respective strength of relationship based on any letters, hearsay, accounts by third parties and so on and so forth. Goodness, even when close friends talk about their relationships its difficult to really know what's going on what the dynamics are, only the two people in the relationship really can be the judge. Sorry,to be such a stickler, but really, who really knows whether he loved her more? George Sand for instance wrote a lot about her relationship, Chopin's own feelings are mostly commented on by others. So how can we judge in any way who loved MORE and then look for the clues in the synatry chart? Maybe they loved just differently or just the accounts about their relationship are leaning in one direction. But as soon as we rely on others, how accurate are these interpretaions. I can just do a quick search on the internet and find this excerpt about their relationship and in this story it doesnt sound like a he loved more than her- love story, but just a complicated dynamic with her possibly partly being exhausted playing nurse...

"Chopin is the most inconstant of men. There is nothing permanent about him but his cough." It is not surprising if her nerves sometimes gave way. Acting as sick nurse, writing herself with rheumatic fingers, robbed by every one about her, and viewed with suspicion by the peasants because she did not go to church, she may be perhaps excused for her sharp words when, in fact, her deeds were kind.
Afterward, with Chopin, she returned to Paris, and the two lived openly together for seven years longer. An immense literature has grown around the subject of their relations. To this literature George Sand herself contributed very largely. Chopin never wrote a word; but what he failed to do, his friends and pupils did unsparingly.
Probably the truth is somewhat as one might expect. During the first period of fascination, George Sand was to Chopin what she had been to Sandeau and to Musset; and with her strange and subtle ways, she had undermined his health. But afterward that sort of love died out, and was succeeded by something like friendship. At any rate, this woman showed, as she had shown to others, a vast maternal kindness. She writes to him finally as “your old woman," and she does wonders in the way of nursing and care.
But in 1847 came a break between the two. Whatever the mystery of it may be, it turns upon what Chopin said of Sand:
“I have never cursed any one, but now I am so weary of life that I am near cursing her. Yet she suffers, too, and more, because she grows older as she grows more wicked.”
In 1848, Chopin gave his last concert in Paris, and in 1849 he died. http://www.authorama.com/famous-affinities-of-history-iv-6.html

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Lonake
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posted March 14, 2011 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Their birth times are hardly accurate.
George Sand could have easily been Aquarius rising, which would fit much more with her life.

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bonadea33
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posted March 15, 2011 05:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello to all,

Thank you all for your comments.

To do Synastry for the people living so far back is easier, than to do for many people, today. Many people today don’t have hour of birth.
In that time, most of them had their own Astrologer and 80% data's are right.

I have in the last time few women, they send me SMS, when their child was born (exact in minute)

I have started to do that, after the woman in Library shown me the book:
"Great women from the history"
There are many women they were great (not famous) on different areas. The first was Nefertiti and the last Princess Diana Spencer.

After that book, I was looking to find biography from each woman: like Marie Curie, George Sand, Maria Walewska and some more. From all women, I found biography, I have read it. As there are mentioned also their men (Pierre Curie, Frederick Chopin and Napoleon), I have read biographies also from their men. Not only that: I have read all biographies; I have got in the Library. If the books weren't here, I went to the neighbour town to get the books, I needed. Most of the biographies were from royal people, like kings and queens (France, Russia, England, Scotland and Spain).

After all, I was searching birth data's for each person from all those biographies. It is much easier to explain Natal Chart, if I knew already about their life.

There were couples very important for my Synastry:
Marie and Pierre Curie;
Napoleon and Josephine (later, Maria Walewska);
Simone de Beauvoir and Jean Paul Sartre;
and other.
(For French people from that time is easier to find Astro data's than from any other country - many of them had their own Astrologer; some had Nostradamus, as a Astrologer).

From 2007 till 2010 I have read so many biographies, I don't know the number. First the book; after that I am looking for their Natal Chart. That is my way to study Astrology.

The best Synastry I have seen was between Napoleon and Josephine. He wrote her so nice love letters that they could be good example, how to write love letter today (to somebody, we love).

B.


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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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bonadea33
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posted March 15, 2011 05:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Few years ago, somebody (in one German Forum) wrote that George Sand looks more like ASC Aquarius. Now, I have found only one Natal Chart, where her birth time is 10:15 pm and not 10:30 pm. All other have the time: 10:30 pm.

George Sand, Khaldea Natal Chart: http://tinypic.com/r/1pgns6/7

I did it by Astro.com:

Sand and Chopin, Synastry Chart:

(it looks better, than other Synastry)

Sand and Chopin, Composite Chart:

I should write: who loves longer?

Date and hour of birth for Chopin: his father had birth certificate, where Chopin was born in February and not in March. It was Chopin, who wanted to have: March 1st.

George Sand, Natal Chart (10:15 pm): http://tinypic.com/r/308w774/7

Frederick Chopin, Natal Chart: http://tinypic.com/r/23kbtdw/7

Chopin's Chart shows his really life.

Bobbie

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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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bonadea33
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posted March 15, 2011 05:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Frederick Chopin:

His house of illness is really bad. No wonder that he always had problems with his health.

Ruler of 5th, Saturn in 8th: death because of love (Medical Astrology).
Here is also other explanation, but it is for somebody who has children. He didn't have any.

Bobbie

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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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Quinnie
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posted March 15, 2011 05:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Quinnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Composite venus and mars are conjunct her natal mars

composite Jupiter conjunct his natal Moon

Composite Saturn on her natal Sun

Composite node conjunct his Mars

It was a significant relationship for both of them but perhaps one that involved too much sacrifice and restriction for George Sand.

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bonadea33
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posted March 15, 2011 06:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonadea33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Quinnie,

Thank you for comment.

They had different lives, when they met:

She was divorced and had two children (her son didn't like Chopin),

He was engaged to one Polish aristocratic girl, but her parents were against him, as he was poor;
(btw, George Sand - Aurora was also aristocratic and rich),

She had more planets in 7th, means also more partners (it is not always so).

Some people love one person all their life; some people love more persons.

We all are different.
In any case it was romantic love story, but didn't last for ever.

B.

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A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
Elbert Hubbard

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