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Author Topic:   Earth, Wind, Fire, Water
crabclaws
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posted August 17, 2011 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crabclaws     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know the root of these concepts cause sometimes I could think that a Scropio can be fire. Do they come from a overall mood?

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Moonfish
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posted August 17, 2011 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonfish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Scorpio Sun, Mars, & Pluto conjunction in the 8th house. The difference between Scorpios & Fire signs is that Scorpios are more private, loners, interpersonal. etc. I'm not very outgoing or popular like a lot of the fire signs I see. Scorpios are just as sensitive as the other water signs, we just hide it better i guess?

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RedScorp
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posted August 17, 2011 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Weeeell, if ya look at it, they're the states of matter. Earth = solid, water = liquids, air = gas and fire is combustion, or energy, or changing from one state to another.

And yes, I have even heard some people say Scorpio is half-fire and half-water. But Scorpio is quite the emotional side, this one girl I know has a LOT of Scorpio planets and she is very emotional. Not like ONE MINUTE SAD, ONE MINUTE HAPPY, but she feels the very depths of every emotion (especially depression).

Fire is active and ready ta go and takes a lot less to be happy and optimistic. That's what I find.

EDIT! Oh wow, Moonfish, that's quite a combination! But I'm very outgoing and popular...must be the Ascendant conjunct Mercury in Libra?

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maira
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posted August 17, 2011 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maira     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before Pluto was discovered, the ruler of Scorpio was in fact Mars - which is the ruler of Aries. My opinion is that Pluto suits Scorpio better - Mars would be open fire, and Pluto would be slow combustion (eventually followed by a nuclear explosion )

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Ami Anne
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posted August 17, 2011 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes Darling
The root is in the Ancient Theories of Oriental though I am quite sure.
They divided the Universe by elements.

------------------
Do You Think This Psychic is Cute?


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Moonfish
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posted August 17, 2011 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonfish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
EDIT! Oh wow, Moonfish, that's quite a combination! But I'm very outgoing and popular...must be the Ascendant conjunct Mercury in Libra?

Yea that could be it, I have Ascendant Pisces & Moon Pisces 12H. I'm just shy x.x

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Betty Boop
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posted August 17, 2011 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Betty Boop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Maira said - the planet counts!
Scorpio is a feminine water sign - but it is co-ruled by masculine 'fire' planet Mars.


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sand
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posted August 17, 2011 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
scorpio is ice to me. fixed water= ice.

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Xiiro
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posted August 17, 2011 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xiiro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This Wikipedia link is pretty informative about the elemental system. Something to keep in mind however, is how many cultures have influenced our modern understanding of Western Astrology.

I think the modern Astrological Element system is based on the Greek Classical Elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element

Regarding Water and Fire, all elements are characteristically similar as well as different. In the example of Fire and Water, all fire and water signs share an emotional passion that Earth and Air signs have no use for. Fire's emotional passion rises, Water's emotional passion seeks depth.

If you think about it all fire and water signs share emotion, but utilize it differently.

Aries - Passionately pursues the cultivation of self
Cancer - Passionately pursues the cultivation of that which is considered "personal"

Leo - Passionately refines self using that which is considered "personal"
Scorpio - Passionately transforms self using experiences with environment.

Sagittarius - Passionately seeks the highest expression of self's relationship to environment.
Pisces - Passionately seeks the dissolution of separation between self and environment.


In the case of Air and Earth, they tend to share a spirit of structuring or reality building.

Gemini - Structures self via communication
Taurus - Structures self via collection and observation of qualities

Virgo - Structures that which is considered "personal" based on whatever makes self most efficient.
Libra - Structures that which is considered "personal" based on observation of difference between self and environment.

Capricorn - Structures the relationship between self and environment by utilizing experience
Aquarius - Structures the dissolution of the separation between self and environment by utilizing thought.


Weee Elements!

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Lotis White
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posted August 17, 2011 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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RedScorp
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posted August 18, 2011 04:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lotis White:

LEO is...how we shine on the stage of life.

Mars in Leo...I'm pretty dramatic and I LOVE attention. I love making people laugh and generally performing per se for my friends. Quite the explanation for some non-Scorpio traits? I think yes! Loved drama class.

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MyLibraWorld
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posted August 20, 2011 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyLibraWorld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing I always thought was odd is how in traditional astrology fire signs and water signs share planets and earth and air signs share planets

Leo-sun
Cancer-moon
Aries/Scorpio-mars(traditional)
Saggitarrius/Pisces-Jupiter

Gemini/Virgo-mercury
Libra/Taurus-Venus
Aquarius/Capricorn-saturn(traditional)


I think that fire signs and water signs only differ from expression. Water signs are more private, more felt like the water, something that can drown u. Fire is completely opposite. It burns you, heats you up and fo
Fire signs are open in expression. They both deal with the self, water signs on a more deeper level, fire on a more conscious level. Both are emotional, not like sobbing, but true to what they feel. The hardest thing for water signs to do is be more fiery, more open. Just like fire signs find it harder to retain things, to be more subtle.

Air signs deal with logic, the what ifs. We are evasive until conered. Earth signs are much more pratical preferring to deal with concrete facts. You can't hold air. It has no substance it is more freedom oriented. Earth you can feel, it has substance and gives you security. Air is totally opposite earth, just off of expression alone, earth is very pratical, taking the more established and practically sound, standing and fighting their turf strictly off of value and esteem. The hardest thing for earth is to deal with mom substantial things like theories, just like air has a hard time dealing with facts, because all is never proven.


That's my theory on why air is more opposite earth than fire and why water is more opposite fire them it is earth.


Water is private and retains fire is open and lets go
Air is more monsubstanial and theorizes, earth is more prAtical and fact based.

Just my opinion

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Betty Boop
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posted August 20, 2011 12:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Betty Boop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is not on topic, as such.. but 6 yrs ago (wow 6 yrs!) I made this thread, titled "solid, liquid, gas & plasma":
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006167.html

People were saying how they wouldn't really like to be called a "GAS" sign .. lol or a "Plasma" sign

I didn't really explain this at the time - but what I was wondering is whether we could attribute new (or more complex) personality-traits to the different signs based on the modern elements (rather than the outdated water/earth/air/fire). Any thoughts on this?


--------

The best interpretation I have found of the different elements is here: http://www.cosmic-imperative.com/elements.htm

quote:
DIRT, JELL-O, WINDY, AND HOT SIGNS

Copyright Gerald Baron 2003

A few years ago I attended an unusual lecture on the four elements of astrology (earth, water, air, and fire) by a famous astrologer from London, England. The famous astrologer said I could use the lecture content if I didn't use the astrologer's name. I accepted the condition, although I didn't understand the reason for it at the time. I only knew the astrologer was concerned about some repercussions if these astrology ideas were publicized with the astrologer's name attached. Later, I learned from gossip in my local astrology community that the famous astrologer had gotten (or I should say stolen) these ideas from a secret society of Hermetic magicians in London.

As with much magical knowledge, the learning tools are very simple and common. To help you understand and use the four elements of astrology, collect the following:

q glass of water;

q matches

q incense

q plate/ashtray

q piece of paper

q houseplant.

_____EARTH: Capricorn, Taurus, Virgo

Look at the houseplant for a few minutes -- or a few hours, the plant and its earth don’t seem to change. Move it around the room. Shake the plant a bit. Think about a patch of grass covered earth in a nearby park or backyard.

As you looked at the houseplant and thought about the patch of earth, the earth just seemed to sit there. When viewed for a few minutes, a patch of earth seems solid and stable without much activity; but under the thin visible crust of the patch of earth, insects, animals, and plant roots are very active.

Also, when viewed over a full year of seasons, a piece of earth with the right amounts of fire, air, and water produces plants and supports animal life. Rhythmic changes can be seen with the season changes. Earth is really very active and productive when viewed over a long time; remember those time lapse movies of plants with one frame shot every hour for a few days.

When we switch our time frame back to a few minutes, earth appears very stable and consistent. Shaking and moving did not disturb the plant. Earth people will shrug off minor surface disturbances; they are not easily distracted from their goals by minor physical, mental, and emotional shocks.

However, this stability is only skin deep. If you probe deeper down below the calm exterior, the earth is compressed under fantastic pressures which are continually adjusting themselves and occasionally escape in magmatic fury. Just like the contrast between the earth's calm exterior and its very active interior, the earth person is also a duality. You'll be destroyed by a volcanic eruption if you attempt to break through earth's reserved manner, go against its sense of justice, or force it to break its natural rhythms.

Earth people are here to learn the lesson of service. Earth's goal is to master work and the material world, and then use that mastery to serve their fellows better. As earth people move along their development path they are:

Good at finishing -- turn dreams to reality;
Enjoy applying experience to problems;
In touch with physical senses & material world;
Practical, patient, and dependable;
Stable, and resist change;
Endure and last; hang in there to finish up even the most unpleasant job.
_____WATER: Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces

Move a glass of water around quickly enough so some water spills.

As the glass of water is moved around, it is easily agitated by physical shock. Water people are easily upset by rough handling -- in contrast to the relative stability of earth. Water can be a paradox however: a violent surface storm can belie a calm stable depth -- or the reverse.

Because water is so sensitive to physical and emotional shock, it looks outside itself for security and stability. The glass gives the water shape and stability. Water people are attracted to discipline and structure. Sometimes a strong, dominant partner or demanding life style serves this purpose.

Another way water finds security and stability is to stay within its family. If some of the water spills on the table top, it will form blobs. The blobbing of the water is the clannishness of water people -- they like to be in groups.

Even though water is very sensitive to its environment, water takes a long time to heat up or cool down. Remember the last time you jumped into a swimming pool on a hot summer morning; the water was still cool from the night. Also, remember how long it seemed to take to boil the big pot of water for the pasta. Water people need a lot of stimulation before they get going (hot), but once going, they tend to stay hot. The reverse is also true: water needs a lot of cooling down time before it stops seething.

Steam gives a much worse burn than boiling water -- even though both are at the same temperature. When VERY heated up over something water is dangerous and difficult to handle.

Even without being heated up, water has much power to achieve its goals. Water will always seek its own level and reach its destination (often the sea). If an obstacle blocks water sign people in the pursuit of their goals, they will use slow, constant pressure to wear the obstacle down (a river wears down rocks). Water expands when freezing, so very strong containers can't hold water forever. Water can seep under and evaporate over barriers.

The next time you are with a water person, keep in mind how much power is latent in the seemingly placid water. It has a potential to do great amounts of work, as when it is directed to flow through a generator in a dam.

As well as being a source of vast potential energy, water also serves as a mirror. You can see your reflection in water. Because water people quickly absorb the character of people they contact, others can see themselves mirrored in the water people. Often this mirroring is therapeutic.

Water people are swayed by feeling and emotions. The goal of water people is to control their emotions so they can find peace. Water has a lot to offer on its path to peace:

· Sensitive to atmosphere;

· Strong sense of values in human relationships;

· Capacity to bring individuals together and instinctually understand their needs;

· Personal, subjective judgment;

· Can persuade, sell, and teach;

· Empathy, compassion, feeling for others;

· Senses inter-dependence and connectedness of all life;

· Feelings are very strong, but dealt with internally;

· Focuses on security; on their own needs if into dependency, on protecting others if into nurturing.

_____AIR: Libra, Aquarius, Gemini

Light an incense stick. Watch the smoke rise. Notice how quickly people can smell the incense. Although air is invisible, the behavior of the visible smoke shows the air currents and the motion of the air molecules. The smoke moves in ever expanding complex patterns, eventually spreading out all over -- just like the invisible air molecules are doing.

Just like the smoke, air people want to see more, do more, hear more, and travel more. Even when seemingly at rest, air is thinking about a myriad of things. While fire only moves to what interests it (fuel), and water runs off water-resistant materials (things it can't get emotionally involved with), air approaches all surfaces equally (truly egalitarian -- but doesn't stay long).

Air people should be encouraged to explore. To see what happens if air is trapped, inflate a balloon and let it go. This is what happens to air people in a confined mental and physical space. Air can be compressed and contained in a specific space such as a balloon, but when an escape is permitted, the air will quickly leave.

Air people want others to know about their explorations. Air is an excellent communicator. Although the smoke is visible, air itself is transparent. Air people generally transmit facts clearly, easily, and without emotional distortion.

We need air to speak to each other. A vacuum doesn’t transmit sound, air is needed to carry sound. Air people enjoy speaking and listening; they often dislike writing because a written message is fixed and unchangeable.

When speaking to air people use logic, not emotional and practical argument. Air must be related to through its mind and intellect. Air doesn't buoy very much solid matter (practical concerns) unless air is approached properly. Hold up a book and let it go. It falls to the ground. However, a plane wing can support tons because it is designed to approach air in a way air can "understand".

Air people's goal is to learn how to use their mental gifts to create connections between people. Unfortunately some air people use their mental gifts to manipulate others or isolate themselves from their fellows. When air is clearly communicated with, it will show its best qualities:

· Fair, assesses situations impersonally;

· Appreciates culture, structure, and systems;

· Courageously adheres to principles;

· Objective, detached judgment;

· Doesn't get heavily involved in other's worries and emotions;

· Lives in head; thinks about logical and abstract ideas -- which may not be practical;

· Enjoys people, ideas, communications, but not absorption or intensity of feeling;

· Understands and accepts, without having to change anything or anyone.

____FIRE: Aries, Leo, Sagittarius

Rub a match lightly a few times on the ignition strip of a matchbook -- no ignition. Next, apply more pressure until the match ignites and suddenly burns brightly. Hold the burning match for a few seconds, then light a piece of paper with the burning match. Let the match go out after it is placed on a fire resistant surface (plate, ashtray, etc.). Light other matches and extinguish them by putting in water, blowing on, and smothering.

At first, the match does not ignite when lightly struck, but with harder rubbing (more friction, thus higher ignition temperature) does start burning. Fire people need the proper amount of stimulation before they will show any interest in a situation, but once "ignited", fire people get intensely involved. Before ignition, fire seems completely disinterested. The only speeds on the fire gearshift are stop and ahead fast; the gear shift is made suddenly.

Once the fire has started to burn, the flame only burns along the match (fuel), not out into the air or along the plate when the match is placed on the plate. Fire only moves toward what interests it personally (fuel) and ignores the rest (non-fuel: air, plate) as if it didn't exist.

The lit match gives off heat and light. Fire can warm and inspire those nearby. Unfortunately too much heat burns up others -- all that is left is ashes. Fire is best as a stimulator when it enthuses people, rather than burning them up. If too enthusiastic and left to burn unchecked, fire can completely consume and destroy all the human and material resources.

A fire can't control its own burning. Fire people are often very generous with their time, energy, and money -- provided the activity interests them (fuel)

Fire people are here to learn the lesson of love and wisdom. Love can cleanse, purify, heal, and inspire, but love without wisdom can destroy. Encourage fire's creativity, passion, and enthusiasm, but also help fire see the results of their "burning", so that fire can learn wisdom. Fire people on the path of love and wisdom are

· Vital and spontaneous -- envied and sometimes resented by more peaceable types;

· Children at heart;

· Burns, often very quickly, and then is gone;

· Confident, generous, outgoing, active (physically and emotionally); -Impulsive and gets bored quickly;

· Loves starting projects and relationships, but may grow tired and leave rather then finish;

· Can lack self-control and sensitivity to others;

· Dramatic, intense, likes change;

· Brings up new possibilities;

· Sees how to prepare for future.

The natural world has many lessons about the elements of astrology. Next time you're barbecuing think about fire sign people. What does champagne have to do with water people? To learn more about earth people, take a close look at the park next time you take a walk there. Contemplate what air has to offer the next time a breeze cools you off on a hot day.


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freebrainstorms
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posted August 21, 2011 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for freebrainstorms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always think of the elements in terms of actual natural elements, I know they may not all apply correctly and some of them i haven't quite figured out yet but i thought i'd share.

Air:
Aquarius: the stars - the unknown, the mystery, the science, i don't know they've just always spelt out aquarius to me
Gemini: the wind - duh, it's constantly changing...
Libra: ? i don't know

Water:
Scorpio: the Ocean - can be calm and gentle or wild and fierce but always bubbling beneath the surface.
Pisces: Rain - can come gentle or strong, warm or cold, etc.
Cancer: a lake...I don't know how to describe it but cancer's always felt the most earthy of water signs to me and lakes embody that for me.

Fire:
Aries: Volcano - but one that explodes a lot haha or maybe just a candle that can be lit or doused very quickly but burns the hottest white flame
Leo: a bonfire - a blazing massive fire that puts on a show and holds your attention while it rages
Ssagittarius: a camp fire? warm, cozy but bright and in your face

Earth:
Taurus: Moss - rich, warm, soft, tactile and cozy
Virgo: ?
Capricorn: Trees - strong, proud, straight, un-waivering

@ Lotis White - I really enjoyed your reply. word.

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Lotis White
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posted August 22, 2011 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Venus
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posted August 22, 2011 04:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freebrainstorms:
Air:
Libra: ? i don't know
.

depends on how the scales dip, sometimes a cool breeze other times a tree-plucking sand storm!

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maira
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posted August 22, 2011 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maira     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great replies guys!
freebrainstorms, Cancer always struck me as fire, I think it may be the cardinal/initiator energy, but I may be biased since I have a lot of fire in my natal.

For Virgo, I pictured a clean, polished white rock, but I may be wrong since their energy is mutable and the rock would be fixed

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freebrainstorms
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posted August 22, 2011 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for freebrainstorms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm interesting about the Cancers being fire...i really don't see that in the cancers I know but maybe they have a lot of earth in their charts - i can't really remember.

I was actually thinking of a rock for Virgo as well but i thought it might come out in the wrong way and it didn't completely seem to fit for me.

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Lotis White
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posted August 22, 2011 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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insideintrovert
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posted August 23, 2011 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for insideintrovert     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aries energy is like a bomb going off or fireworks and Scorpio energy is like a volcano going off and lava seeping out slowly.

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maira
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posted August 23, 2011 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maira     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Virgo could be an ant nest

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freebrainstorms
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posted August 27, 2011 04:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for freebrainstorms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HAHA i love it, totally!

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted August 27, 2011 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it is a chinese concept predominantly, but I may be wrong.

I know the elements feature very much in their writings, and their philosophies are some of the oldest surviving writings we are aware of.

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sand
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posted August 27, 2011 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^chinese has no air element but they have wood and metal.

so it's fire, earth, air, water for western.

and fire, earth, wood, metal, water for chinese. also very different meanings.

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freebrainstorms
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posted August 30, 2011 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for freebrainstorms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry I'm ignoring that bit about Chinese astrology because i don't know anything about it apart from the elements they use.

I had a brainstorm - Virgo is GRASS.
think about it, it works perfectly. even when it's gone wild it's still straight and defined.

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