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Author
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Topic: For Plutonians: Please explain the concept of pluto and personal power
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polysigh
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted November 21, 2011 07:11 PM
  
For example: I have Sun conjunct pluto (4 degrees) and venus conjunct pluto (almost exact)in my natal chart. I have been told that I am unapproachable, not easy to know, and intense. I don't think this is true at all but apparently this is the first impression I give off. I have read that sometimes people find plutonian energy off putting, somewhat scary and powerful. I do see a lot of power struggles in relationships, it never fails that this energy rears its ugly head. So for the pluto people here: why is it that people see this energy in me and what exactly does it mean especially when it comes to relationships? what exactly are they thinking when they meet me-Lol?IP: Logged |
maira
Knowflake Posts: 770
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted November 21, 2011 07:21 PM
They are thinking "man, if I'm not careful, she'll bite my head off" 
Haven't you ever met someone who intimidated you? Think Marlon Brando in The Godfather. Truth is Plutonians usually grow into thier power. You'll eventually realize that not everyone is so intense and find yourself another nice Plutonian to play with - since I stated film referencing, Blair and Chuck from Gossip Girl are a good example.IP: Logged |
polysigh
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted November 21, 2011 07:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by maira:
They are thinking "man, if I'm not careful, she'll bite my head off"
Haven't you ever met someone who intimidated you? Think Marlon Brando in The Godfather. Truth is Plutonians usually grow into thier power. You'll eventually realize that not everyone is so intense and find yourself another nice Plutonian to play with - since I stated film referencing, Blair and Chuck from Gossip Girl are a good example.
tee-hee, thanks for that! Made me laugh! Yes, I have met people who have intimidated me but its kinda rare, not too many scare me. yeah, I definitely need another plutonian to play with and I have in the past but again the power struggles are just relentless. I am trying hard to get this under control but it is very difficult; its like second nature to me.
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maira
Knowflake Posts: 770
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted November 21, 2011 07:32 PM
I think that the games will stop once you accept and embrace your own vulnerability. In my opinion this is the most difficult task for a plutonian. They are terrified of letting others know how much and how deeply they really feel. It's a very long and difficult journey, but it isn't impossible.IP: Logged |
enchantress299
Knowflake Posts: 317
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted November 21, 2011 07:34 PM
Maybe I can help give a bit of perspective, as I have a Scorpio friend whose Pluto conjuncts his Sun by one degree...Essentially (and I really think that this is something that he is not fully aware of), a large part of it is the body language and tone. In fact, I almost think that it's the body language more than anything that makes him give off an 'intense' vibe. When he focuses on you, it is LASER LIKE focus. He will bore into you with his gaze, but ALSO, his body will become very still and rigid. He is totally focused. It's almost uncomfortable- like being under a microscope. Also, his tone will get harder and harder if he is trying to prove a point. What's funny is that he doesn't realize this, and so he claims that I am being defensive (which I AM, but only because I feel like I'm being ATTACKED or COERCED instead of ASKED). If you think of most air signs, let's take Gemini for instance, they tend to be a bit looser and more shifty eyed. Their eyes are constantly darting around and you know that they are taking in the situation. Whereas with certain Scorpios and Plutonian types, I find that they are the opposite. They tense up, focus intensely, and (depending on the Scorpio/Plutonian type) ask many personal and/or inappropriate questions. It doesn't help that they are often able to focus directly on your flaws and failings (usually after they've gotten to know you a bit)and they often want to push their 'advice' on you. I am slightly Plutonian myself, since I have a Scorpio rising, however, my chart ruler (being Pluto) is in Libra, so I think that helps to soften me a bit. I understand the Plutonian types, but they can even make me uncomfortable if they are on the extreme end of their beliefs/thoughts/etc. I would also ask you why YOU think that power struggles play a part in your relationships? To be honest, I've known quite a few Scorpios, and not all of them have this dynamic in their relationships. I think the ones that do are usually a bit insecure in themselves or they feel that they 'need' to control or have power over the other person in order to have a stable relationship (this usually backfires big time). So I'm just curious to see what your take is on it... IP: Logged |
polysigh
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted November 21, 2011 07:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by maira:
I think that the games will stop once you accept and embrace your own vulnerability. In my opinion this is the most difficult task for a plutonian. They are terrified of letting others know how much and how deeply they really feel. It's a very long and difficult journey, but it isn't impossible.
I agree 100%. this is what I have been trying to work on. I know that this is the only way to overcome this tendency but I find it sooooo difficult. I hope to get there someday. Thank you!
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polysigh
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted November 21, 2011 07:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by enchantress299:
Maybe I can help give a bit of perspective, as I have a Scorpio friend whose Pluto conjuncts his Sun by one degree...Essentially (and I really think that this is something that he is not fully aware of), a large part of it is the body language and tone. In fact, I almost think that it's the body language more than anything that makes him give off an 'intense' vibe. When he focuses on you, it is LASER LIKE focus. He will bore into you with his gaze, but ALSO, his body will become very still and rigid. He is totally focused. It's almost uncomfortable- like being under a microscope. Also, his tone will get harder and harder if he is trying to prove a point. What's funny is that he doesn't realize this, and so he claims that I am being defensive (which I AM, but only because I feel like I'm being ATTACKED or COERCED instead of ASKED). If you think of most air signs, let's take Gemini for instance, they tend to be a bit looser and more shifty eyed. Their eyes are constantly darting around and you know that they are taking in the situation. Whereas with certain Scorpios and Plutonian types, I find that they are the opposite. They tense up, focus intensely, and (depending on the Scorpio/Plutonian type) ask many personal and/or inappropriate questions. It doesn't help that they are often able to focus directly on your flaws and failings (usually after they've gotten to know you a bit)and they often want to push their 'advice' on you. I am slightly Plutonian myself, since I have a Scorpio rising, however, my chart ruler (being Pluto) is in Libra, so I think that helps to soften me a bit. I understand the Plutonian types, but they can even make me uncomfortable if they are on the extreme end of their beliefs/thoughts/etc. I would also ask you why YOU think that power struggles play a part in your relationships? To be honest, I've known quite a few Scorpios, and not all of them have this dynamic in their relationships. I think the ones that do are usually a bit insecure in themselves or they feel that they 'need' to control or have power over the other person in order to have a stable relationship (this usually backfires big time). So I'm just curious to see what your take is on it...
enchantress, thank you...I agree with almost everything you wrote. especially about the body language and tone of voice, absolutely I do this. The one thing I don't do especially in the beginning of a relationship is ask too many questions and probe too much. Perhaps because I don't want them to do the same to me. I am intensely private. Or...maybe its because I don't want them to think I care too much...hmmm...as for the insecurity, yes, I think this definitely plays a part in the wanting control. As maira wrote, I feel so out of control to feel vulnerable, it scares the living daylights out of me and the only thing I can think of is that this is rooted in insecurity. Pluto...a cross to bear! lol IP: Logged |
Capriquarius
Knowflake Posts: 201
From: So. Cal
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted November 21, 2011 08:20 PM
Pluto is about ruthlessly stripping you of all of your "security blankets" that you have been conditioned to lean on for personal identity. You are not your job. You are not your relationships. You are not your possessions. You are not the activities you do for entertainment. You are not the religion or politics you side with. At your core, you are infinite possibilities, independent of all, and that is what true personal power is.Scary stuff. People get defensive about having their security ripped from them (e.g. fear of communism). So they would feel uneasy around someone who gives off this vibe - that you can survive without all those trappings and niceties they (think they) need. It probably disturbs them that you don't seek their approval by smiling. I paraphrased that from a book by Howard Sasportas (R.I.P.) called The Gods of Change. His books are awesome, highly recommend that one, especially for understanding Pluto. IP: Logged |
frankie2912
Knowflake Posts: 324
From: yep,ks,usa
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted November 21, 2011 08:36 PM
People have told me I put off a strong presence ....and that I can be scary when I'm not smiling/being social. I have resting-b*tch-face. People can tell when I'm angry, too...I don't have to say a thing and people I guess can just feel it and I get a lot of stares and people walking away from me when I'm super angry..this happened to me at Wal-Mart once LOL.I also have a look in my eye that I give people when I'm feeling hateful ...my mom used to literally slap me across the face when I'd look at her that way. I've had people tell me to stop looking at them that way when I'm p*ssed at them, too. Pluto in Scorpio conjunct ASC, sextile Sun. Thank gods for my venus in 1st house or I don't think anyone would ever approach me lol IP: Logged |
sand
Knowflake Posts: 1522
From:
Registered: May 2011
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posted November 22, 2011 07:19 AM
i hear so much about pluto's depth but then i think i am shallow lol! but i have an opposition-y chart so perhaps not all the time..my pluto is at 0 degrees scorpio same as my ascendant. IP: Logged |
polysigh
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted November 22, 2011 09:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Capriquarius:
Pluto is about ruthlessly stripping you of all of your "security blankets" that you have been conditioned to lean on for personal identity. You are not your job. You are not your relationships. You are not your possessions. You are not the activities you do for entertainment. You are not the religion or politics you side with. At your core, you are infinite possibilities, independent of all, and that is what true personal power is.Scary stuff. People get defensive about having their security ripped from them (e.g. fear of communism). So they would feel uneasy around someone who gives off this vibe - that you can survive without all those trappings and niceties they (think they) need. It probably disturbs them that you don't seek their approval by smiling. I paraphrased that from a book by Howard Sasportas (R.I.P.) called The Gods of Change. His books are awesome, highly recommend that one, especially for understanding Pluto.
Thanks! Think I am going to have to pick up that book. I have never heard it put that way! IP: Logged |
enchantress299
Knowflake Posts: 317
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted November 23, 2011 07:40 PM
quote:
As maira wrote, I feel so out of control to feel vulnerable, it scares the living daylights out of me and the only thing I can think of is that this is rooted in insecurity. Pluto...a cross to bear! lol
Hmmm... I don't necessarily think that feeling super-vulnerable is insecurity. And actually- thank you for that insight, as it does explain several of the Pluto/Scorpio types I've known. It didn't occur to me to think that they were very vulnerable, as they usually come off as the opposite. However, having a huge amount of defenses would make sense for someone who felt really really vulnerable. To be honest, Scorpio/Plutonian types often seem very well adjusted to me, and they usually seem to know what they are doing, so it's hard for me to see the deep vulnerability that they feel. However... Some of those types do try to bring out MY vulnerability, which, with my Scorpio rising, usually just p*sses me off. lol.  IP: Logged |
lindisfarne
Knowflake Posts: 423
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted November 23, 2011 07:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by maira:
I think that the games will stop once you accept and embrace your own vulnerability. In my opinion this is the most difficult task for a plutonian. They are terrified of letting others know how much and how deeply they really feel. It's a very long and difficult journey, but it isn't impossible.
could not have said it better IP: Logged |
maira
Knowflake Posts: 770
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted November 23, 2011 08:14 PM
It is said that if you place a scorpion in a ring of fire, it will sting itself and die. Whether that's true or just a legend, I think it describes quite accurately the real life Scorpio placements. If feeling threatened, Scorpio will try and sting to death (destroy) whatever or whomever does that. If that fails, they will auto-destruct (and rise again from their ashes, but that's another story). Scorpio prefers to die (even metaphorically) than show weakness. The problem is that most of the time the threats are not real.
When Scorpio learns to replace fear with love, life gets good. As in real good.But to overcome such fear, such shame of being so vulnerable... some never make it. Lots of them never do. Lots of them are oblivious as to why they do it. And it's a lifetime struggle. That being said, with the dark moon in Scorpio, my urge is to destroy a relationship that I value very much. And I know rationally that it is my fear of abandonment that makes me do that, not the objective truth. I'm at a point where I'm negotiating with my Lilith in Scorpio, asking her to play nice. As I've said... lifetime struggle.
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