posted November 22, 2011 11:31 PM            

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God Or Monster?
Jupiter rules our personal philosophy and wisdom, the area in which we have the deepest, natural understanding. By planet, Jupiter tells us the area where our personal philosophy centers in and is born of; the area in our lives we are most comfortable and "lucky." The house Jupiter falls in indicates how we bring this wisdom to the world. Jupiter stays in each sign for roughly 12 months, and is so considered a "generational planet," although not to the extent that Neptune (stays in sign 14 years), Uranus (7 years), Pluto (14-30 years, depending) and Saturn (2.5 years) are.

When Jupiter is found in the sign of Scorpio, a hypnotic quality is added to the personality. Scorpio, ruled by Pluto, in the planet Jupiter bestows natives with a deeper understanding of what it hidden away from others, and individuals with this placement therefore have a clever, charming and somewhat underhanded quality to them that can be difficult to pin down. There's almost always a degree of social power evident in these individuals, mostly due to their ability to clearly see (and exploit, if they choose to) the ugly, hidden parts of everything around them- people, situations, etc. This overwhelming need to both uncover and possess the absolute, dirty truth of every circumstance sounds daunting and a little scary, but to Jupiter in Scorpio natives the quality is so ingrained in who they are (and have always been) that it generally ceases to trouble them. Instead, it's what they choose to do with this deeper wisdom that inevitably makes or breaks them.

Jupiter in Scorpio straddles a serious fence between good and evil, arguably moreso than any other planetary placement (aspects are a whole other thing, naturally). In the (long ago) past, children born in the years where Jupiter was placed in Scorpio were considered marked by the devil. Although it always endows it's natives with a certain "badass" quality, it can manifest in drastically different ways depending on how it is aspected elsewhere in the natal chart. If well aspected, Jupiter in Scorpio's are often gifted investigators, artists/writers and political/spiritual leaders. If afflicted, there is a tendency toward extreme violence, cult leadership/mind control and exploitation of power. There has been extensive study on this offbeat placement because of it's extreme polarity- there is a wealth of information available on the internet if you're interested.

EXAMPLES OF "GOOD" BADASS VS. "BAD" BADASS

Charles Manson (cult leader), Ted Bundy (serial killer), Erik Menendez (murdered parents), Al Capone (gang leader, murderer) , Joseph Mengele (infamous nazi doctor called "The Angel of Death"), L. Ron Hubbard (cult leader), OJ Simpson (murderer, wife beater), David Koresh (cult leader, child molestor), Aleister Crowley (cult leader), and Joseph Fritzel (locked daughter & children she bore him through rape in a windowless cellar for almost 30 years) all had/have their Jupiter in Scorpio, for example.

On the other hand Patti Smith (singer/performance artist/poet), Kurt Vonnegut (author), Edvard Munch (expressionist painter), Leo Tolstoy (author), Rainer Maria Rilke (poet), Tchaikovsky (composer), Claude Monet (impressionist painter), Vladimir Nabokov (author), Deepak Chopra (spiritual guru), Carl Sagan (atheist leader/ideologist) and the Dalai Lama XIV also do.

Strangely, it's somewhat easy to see the elusive quality that all of these people share- all of them deal/t in the darker side of life. Jupiter in Scorpio always feels most alive when walking the thin line between good and evil. What can't be denied is that this placement instills in it's natives an almost perverse fascination with (and understanding of) the underbelly of humanity. They feel a deep sense of satisfaction in forcing the darkness of life into the light, even moreso if it happens to also scare the **** out of everyone else. What separates the good from the bad (or the "gods" from the "monsters") is that where most natives are satisfied in expressing this darkness through music, poetry, art and non-oppressive spirituality, others seem to need to "go the extra mile" (so to speak) by expressing it through absolute human cruelty and religious extremism.

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posted December 15, 2022 07:44 PM            

It was a weird and magical date filled with charm and bliss. And he kissed me wonderfully in the street after we left the restaurant.

Within the date though and all the wine he continued to order, he interjected subliminal suggestions into the conversation.

Such as:

"I'm in love with you and you're in love with me".

When he kissed me he told me to "relax" (which I def was after all the wine anyhow, lol).

Through the night he never stopped telling me how beautiful I was. And gave a lot of intense and attentive eye-contact.

All the time I was just watching him.

So, yes, using mind-control to get what he wanted. There are people out there who will do it.

In retrospect, the date felt kind of "rapey".

His actual natal Jupiter was late Libra. It had well progressed into Scorpio though and obviously all things Scorpio was who he had become.

posted December 15, 2022 08:58 PM            

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
I went on a first date with a man with Jupiter Scorpio.

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I'm a Scorpio Jupiter.

It's the ruler of my 5th house and I'm a Leo Ascendant, disposited by my Sun in Scorpio.

Jupiter loves pursuit. Scorpio is rape. I can see how there's a collision course of ideology here.

And no, I've never raped anyone. But numerous times have I enjoyed seducing a woman out of her better judgment and I don't believe there was regret for either of us.

posted December 16, 2022 04:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
I went on a first date with a man with Jupiter Scorpio.

It was a weird and magical date filled with charm and bliss. And he kissed me wonderfully in the street after we left the restaurant.

Within the date though and all the wine he continued to order, he interjected subliminal suggestions into the conversation.

Such as:

"I'm in love with you and you're in love with me".

When he kissed me he told me to "relax" (which I def was after all the wine anyhow, lol).

Through the night he never stopped telling me how beautiful I was. And gave a lot of intense and attentive eye-contact.

All the time I was just watching him.

So, yes, using mind-control to get what he wanted. There are people out there who will do it.

In retrospect, the date felt kind of "rapey".

His actual natal Jupiter was late Libra. It had well progressed into Scorpio though and obviously all things Scorpio was who he had become.

We're lucky to have Astrology to be forewarned. A woman younger than me would've fallen very easily.

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Lol. 🤣 I think Venus/Mars in Scorpio people are similar to Jupiter in Sco in this regards too. They like to hypnotize and "seduce" in covert ways.

I once had this massive eye contact thing happen with a Mars in Scorpio guy. I am Venus in Scorpio. And it's like we were having a covert conversation that went on the lines of...

Venus(Me): Stop it. I know what you are doing to me

Mars in Sco: Why should I ? You don't want me to. And besides, you are doing the same thing to me too.

I think water placements can have full "conversations" via eye contact and subtle signals/codes which (if the other is not receptive of) can be easily missed.

Jupiter in Sco may have the luck and good fortune(Jup) of transformation or the power of revival (Sco).

So they have the ability to bounce back (Jup)from what was considered "ruin". Or even death itself- either metaphorically in their career. Or physically after a terribly debilitating illness.

Luck(Jup) may come through some form of transformational project i.e turning trash to treasure OR restoring vitality to what was once "dead" etc.

Amy Winehouse (Jupiter in Sco) transformed her painful relationship experiences (Sco) into song that touched many people and earned her wealth (Jup).

Hillary Clinton (Jupiter in Sco). How many times have we thought she's "done" before she bounces back with a "i am not dead yet suckers" attitude? I thought after the Trump loss, she was finished. But she is still there within politics as a powerhouse 🤷🏿‍♂️

Carrie Fisher(though Jupiter in Virgo, it is in her 8th house)She is known for her bestselling novel "Postcards from the Edge" & screenplay for a film of the same name & her autobiographical one-woman play and the non-fiction book "Wishful Drinking" she based it on.

I read "The best awful there is" and there is a lot of pain (Sco) told in a very artfully humorous way(Jup). Like she wants the reader to find humour(Jup) in the pain (Sco).❤

posted December 17, 2022 04:42 PM            

My humor is dark, but I see that as a defense mechanism (a healthy one, though it upsets some people--and the media and social narratives about it not taking problems seriously or trying to hide fear are woefully incorrect to the point I marvel at how so many can be so wrong). I've mentioned in my Inspiring Songs (or whatever it was called) thread that I skipped over some I found inspiring as others might find them bleak, even depressing, and stuck to those I thought would be "safe" for others.

I've become darker over the years. I never fully hid from it (though neither did I see a reason to trumpet it--in fact, I saw many reasons not to), but I'm becoming more so with age. I recently mentioned a dream of being friendly with skunks in the dream forum, and I do believe it's my making peace with the darkest side of myself that I was never proud of (though not necessarily ashamed of it either). Some things I used to consider child abuse of myself I now see as a blessing, and perhaps it's for the best (or maybe not) that I didn't come to this view until after kids I was helping to raise are adult (or close enough for one).

It's very difficult for me to pick a side because I see the devil in all of us, and on all sides (who hates its own reflection in the rivals).

I realized that the reason I've been a fan of the Addams franchise since like forever (even liking some of the comics before it debuted on TV) is because it's about people who can embrace their dark side while retaining their humanity, and still loving themselves and each other for it, flaws and all. The veneer of "kookiness" is just to keep it from feeling threatening to the dominant social narratives.

I hear people make a big deal about certain levels of fan service, but I can think of even cartoons as far back as the 1920s having it, and it being present in many shows many don't think of (like Star Trek: the Next Generation, such as Troi and Crusher in tights stretching with mirrors for the best angles while discussing sex and romance, if I recall right, as just one example, and The Original Series got even more blatant). But then I'm still trying to figure out why other shows that are even more blatant than what's condemned somehow get a pass.

x

That's just the trivial stuff. There's much deeper stuff I could go into, but most can't handle it. I'll share just one.

When I was a kid on the street, I could not go to my grandmother's because my father's family would report me, and then Mom would lose her child support (to fund her vices, and she didn't report me missing for fear of losing it), and I'd be forced back to my mother. So, I was stuck on the streets (unless I wanted to submit to a system I learned to distrust, and though I wasn't paranoid about it as many other kids, and adults, I can say with confidence it did not have my best interest at heart, and once acknowledging what humanity is really like, it makes sense).

I was close to one who I used to think was a psycho, but now realize she just wanted (extreme) justice for the extreme trauma inflicted upon her by the system. In her case, her family had been killed (she saw one of them killed right in front of her by cops when she was like 5), the rest imprisoned and/or deported to Mexico. Not to say they were martyrs, but she felt love and security while they were alive, and that was taken from her, and then she was placed in abusive or exploitative foster homes and orphanages until she fled an extreme abuser...she had far more to fear than me by going back.

One thing we had in common is that we both knew what love was, we were just blocked from it. I asked her once who had it worst...those like us who had love and safety once but lost it, or the other kids (in our gang) who never knew love or safety their entire tragic lives, and therefore did not know what they were missing?

She said she envied them. It took me over a decade to figure out my own answer, and I think we were the lucky ones, despite that the pain was that much more acute. I pity the ones who never knew it despite that they also didn't know the grief and heartbreak as they never had the love and security to lose. (At the same time, I realized she wasn't a psycho as I'd assumed, just deeply hurt, and knowing justice was not in the system, she sought vigilante forms of it that manifested in extreme criminal and violent behavior.)

But then pleasure & pain are so often interlinked. Even just being in passionate love, requited or not, can demonstrate this, let alone the erotic aspects (any nerve sensitive enough for pleasure is also sensitive enough for extreme pain, and vice versa).

x

On that note, I'll add something else that I think puts me out of synch with many by saying why I don't like the idea of utopia (and never believed it possible, though there was a time I thought we could be doing a lot better than we have been, which I no longer believe save for specific and temporary circumstances).

The primary reason I dislike the idea is that when people get used to it, they cease to enjoy it and feel entitled to it, meaning they don't benefit from it, or even appreciate it, and it makes them weaker for the inevitable disappointments and regrets in life. (And at least currently, others must pay for those who benefit, the symbolic symbolism in so many shows of a floating city over an exploited slum, those who suffer growing stronger and more passionate while the others become decadent and complacent until the Fall becomes inevitable, rinse and repeat, history in a nutshell.)

Even if that could be stopped somehow, it takes risk and loss to enjoy the good things in life, there can be no true virtue without compelling temptation (and romanticized innocence is just untested virtue in my book, and not necessarily a good person in part because they lack sufficient awareness to make informed decisions to be one way or another, and can be thoughtless and easily deceived by manipulators), no strength without suffering (I think there's a recent thread here on why so many are getting sick now, because they've overprotected their immune systems for too long, as just one simple example), no courage without the risk (and especially experience) of anguish. What hero's journey or appreciation of the finer things can exist in such a bleak utopia?

Necessity (particularly in war, and that includes the internet we use) motivates invention, at least to the point that society is changed. I don't think a peaceful civilization would ever become interstellar (at least not by technology as we imagine it), but at least the more aggressive and predatory who would develop it are more likely to destroy themselves with it before becoming a threat to others (as I believe humanity ultimately will).

People want Heaven, but what would the point of that, especially when the natural inclination is to take such things for granted and thus not enjoy it? Might as well wish for the drug soma from Huxley's Brave New World as at least that's possible, and more likely than some utopian society in making you so blissfully happy (though plenty of people who seem to have the perfect lives and every material need met take more psyche meds than the rest of us, and are also prone to suicide, especially if they lose what they took for granted). At least in a world of imperfection there are still things to strive for, a reason for being than utter bliss.

But that doesn't mean that Kropotkin was wrong about the value and necessity of cooperation in society (and among animals), but it is the harshness that makes it necessary, and the temptations to take the easy path (at least immediately so) that makes virtue out of those who can transcend their own petty selves, and defy a cold universe by being better than we are...at least as much as we can be, and trying not to accidentally make things worse in the process, including in making future generations unprepared for hardship by coddling them too much as their brains are at their most active in learning to adapt to the world (though those who viciously abuse their children to toughen them up go to the equally destructive opposite extreme).

Though I'll leave one final difference between me and so many others. Many think you must believe in a higher power to be charitable, or karma. But the way that's normally worded, everyone is taken care of anyway, and given their just treatments by higher powers, so if they believe that then they are defying those powers, or at best, being mercenary rather than charitable by trying to earn good karma or entrance into Heaven (not that I'm against this--good deeds that are seen as profitable are the most endurable, and most likely to be practiced).

But to me, it's BECAUSE the cosmos is so harsh, and no higher powers to intervene on our behalf (at least under normal circumstances for most people) that it's important to reach out to each other, as Kropotkin said (not that his politics are my politics, but I see him as more sensible than many romanticized hippies). Because we are all that we have. Ironically, if there is some higher power that wants us to practice selfless love, I think it would be more pleased by my charitable actions that truly expected no reward than those who thought they were earning some great reward in this life or the next for it.

(And if such forces are too offended that I don't believe in it, then it's too petty to be good, and with less excuse than the rest of us...unless there are so many more layers above that one that ultimately we become little different than microbes--including the microbes that make up our bodies--to beings that transcend even mortal concepts of divinity.)

x

Okay, one last thing, and back to the trivial, about one of my favorite shows (which I hope is never remade) Babylon 5. I see it as an incredibly optimistic show despite terrible tragedies and injustices that cannot be undone (and it is because of the good fight in spite of that which is part of why I love it), but others see it as way too pessimistic to fully enjoy. And it's become more relevant to real life as I've gotten older. A few things I found on the silly side for humanity to be that bad and stupid (and figured it was just to move the story along faster), but now I've experienced enough real life to see it as actually accurate.

I know many loved it when it was out, but it's hard to find fans of it today, and at first was surprised when I heard it was too depressing to enjoy when I saw it as the exact opposite, truly heroic in that the worst can bring out the best in us, and we can reach something close to perfection...but never perfect, not even in a million years after becoming beings of pure light. And so, like with some of my humor and even more of songs I'd share to be inspiring, I'm careful about recommending it until I know a person better.

x

Hope this wasn't too long or rambling. And I wonder why I share as I think even the few to read through it will be disturbed or baffled by it (I suppose it's someone who said he wished I posted here more).

At least I hope it gives insight into Scorpio Jupiter, but then again, I was a different person 20 years ago, and expect to be a different person 20 years from now who may feel very different on some or many of these things (it's funny, I think my 15-year-old self would like who I've become, but my 20-year-old self would consider me a future to avoid somehow ), so if even me at different stages in my life would react differently to what I've shared (I wish I could say more), then what of other Scorpio Jupiters, let alone others that want to think we live in some loving arms of divine forces?

posted December 18, 2022 07:22 AM            

But seriously interesting and helpful. I am so uneducated about Pluto energy. And I am quite frightened of Scorpio people, lol. I just don't understand them at all. Why they got to be like that?

My Jupiter is in Sag, and when it comes to outer planets Uranus is my guy - most heavily influenced in my chart. I don't cope well with Pluto energy at all.

Maybe I have just had too much of Pluto "raping" me in my life.

The years of my analysis of Pluto energy has had me considering it an energy that is hell-bent on breaching other peoples free will. And that offends my code of conduct.

But, actually, maybe that can be said about any of the outer planet energies, right? They all push and try to breach free will? Uranus incites and disrupts (I know I like to).. Neptune fogs and deludes.

As a side note, I've noticed that people who like to flirt with darkness (if that's what we're agreeing Pluto is) are often those who have not had real darkness in their lives. Sheltered people who have had easy lives.

Also, (those same people perhaps) are sometimes gratuitous observers who experience vicariously other people's suffering so as to develop their own personal resilience. I don't need to comment what I think about that.

I'll say though that I find it more courageous (and more regenerative) to help people who are suffering. But ignore me, with Jup in Sag, I tend to enjoy taking the high moral ground, lol.

Honestly though, I probably would be quite happy on clouds playing harps. I've seen more than enough darkness.

This is my rigid thinking, fwiw from someone with hardly any Pluto in their chart. But of who nevertheless, the world has drenched my life, uninvited and unarmed, with Pluto. As is what happens with elevated (on my MC) and "un-aspected" (yes we know there is no such thing) outer planets.

posted December 18, 2022 11:43 AM            

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
Wow, thanks for your insights. All interesting. I was worried that I'd be shot down for saying rapey.

But seriously interesting and helpful. I am so uneducated about Pluto energy. And I am quite frightened of Scorpio people, lol. I just don't understand them at all. Why they got to be like that?

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quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
I don't cope well with Pluto energy at all.

Maybe I have just had too much of Pluto "raping" me in my life.

The years of my analysis of Pluto energy has had me considering it an energy that is hell-bent on breaching other peoples free will. And that offends my code of conduct.

But, actually, maybe that can be said about any of the outer planet energies, right? They all push and try to breach free will? Uranus insights and disrupts (I know I like to).. Neptune fogs and deludes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
As is what happens with elevated (on my MC) and "un-aspected" (yes we know there is no such thing) outer planets.

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I have a very hard time relating to Uranian types, being highly Plutonian myself. But I'll also say that I'm fascinated with Aquarian energy.

I'm a Leo Asc. If you use traditional sign rulerships, my Aquarius descendant has its ruler, Saturn, conjunct my Moon & Pluto. If you use modern rulers, my Uranus makes no interplanetary aspects, only a 5-degree trine to my Asc. So, two co-rulers integrated in very different ways in my chart.

Uranus frustrates me endlessly. Of the outer planets, it is by far the most self-centered, most preoccupied by "free will." And here is where *my* code of conduct is offended.

All of the outer planets are difficult to fathom. I consider them all malefics and find their results generally occur without any benefit. They shake things up and leave it to your personal planets to cope without any apparent lesson. At best they force the "evolution" of an individual but for reasons unlikely to be understood in one lifetime.

As a Scorpio, I can grapple with the urge to destroy. Uranus/Neptune/Pluto all destroy in their own special ways. I often yearn for oblivion. With life being so short, I can't tell you why I'm fixated on the end. Some might call that a waste of time. I struggle mightily with the pointlessness of existence and perhaps therein lies some clues as to the Scorpio fascination with sex (rape, procreation, etc.).

posted December 18, 2022 05:06 PM            

Feel free to share more. I for one, am all ears.

It's not fair that Pluto gets "powerful", and Uranus gets "eccentric" (at best). Maybe I'm jealous?

Although I should remember, Uranus can certainly dazzle.

I wonder which big guy would come out on top in an octagon.

Where Uranus is about brotherhood communion, information sharing, and flashes of inter-dimensional insight. Neptune is about compassion, and sophisticated imagination. And Pluto is about _________ .

I guess you'll say "regeneration" (Aries already did).

posted December 18, 2022 05:33 PM            

What a great response. Wonderful that my experience (and hopefully my dry delivery) amused you.

I did say to him in the evening: "I CAN stare you down, you know".

Unfortunately, it was only in hindsight that it occurred to me that a slap to the face would've been a fantastic memory for both of us to keep from that night.

And yes, I had alternatively been thinking something quite similar: if he kissed me again I would ask him "can you please stop doing that", while coincidentally fall into the kiss, just as I did that night.

But honestly, instead, if he asked me out again, I think that I will be telling him that he is too "rapey" for my taste.

posted December 24, 2022 02:14 AM            

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(And if such forces are too offended that I don't believe in it, then it's too petty to be good, and with less excuse than the rest of us...unless there are so many more layers above that one that ultimately we become little different than microbes--including the microbes that make up our bodies--to beings that transcend even mortal concepts of divinity.)

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I was just saying this to my dad, the other day, and I've said it before. If the most powerful force in the universe (if it exists) (that the most powerful force in the universe, if it exists, and being petty if it was ****** that I didn't believe).

The immune system thing: the same people who were yelling that masks don't work, are the same ones stating they worked and protected us, and now we're all getting sick. I'm not, so far, and I'm still masking. Covid was apparently just declared an auto-immune disease, that it leaves us more susceptible to getting sicker than we would have been before.