posted December 14, 2011 03:23 PM            

My Venus and Saturn are both Aquarius in the 12th House.

I generally understand either one in isolation, but what I am struggling to know is the cause and effect one has on the other.

Specifically, I am concerned about Venus in 12th being the bases for secretive love relationships and have struggled with that concept for over half a year now. I have yet to come to terms with what I consider almost uniform conclusions that I will eventually start straying (Pluto and Uranus in Virgo in 7th). So far, I have been steadfast.

I'll post the chart later (after I leave work because work blocks all the image hosting sites).

I can deal with being a loner. Its true that my modus operandi is to fly solo. However, I cannot deal with being a philanderer.

These are the generic interpretations (I disagree with about one-third of it):

Venus in 12th house

Your love of solitude and being your own best company may cause you to want to retreat from society. Pleasures are enjoyed in secret or behind the scenes. Clandestine relationships are possible. Self-indulgence through drink, drugs or sex can bring on self-undoing. There is a strong sense of compassion and a willingness to help and serve others. You may be a sucker for a good sob story. Success by social standards is unimportant to you. You want an understanding of the meaning of life. There is a tendency to keep relationships with
the opposite sex a secret. You seldom reveal your innermost feelings. This position usually gives an interest in psychic or occult subjects.

Saturn in 12th house

posted December 14, 2011 04:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by maira:
I see planets in the 12th as that which is hidden from us. So I think Venus would mean that even though you are loved very much, you might not feel loved or valued. As for Saturn, I read on Bob Marks that it suppresses depression (kind of true), but in my opinion it's the worst placement of Saturn ever. You have to work a great deal at spirituality, have a solid foundation - otherwise, you'll feel lost and be the cause of your own miseries. At least in my personal experience, I've come to loathe Saturn.

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Thank you.

You have provided me with a fresh perspective on Venus in 12th. I've never seen it from the angle of not feeling loved/valued. Something that I need to consider.

posted December 14, 2011 05:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by maira:
Let me get that link for you, my mercury in Pisces in incoherent most of the time :

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/twelthhouse.htm

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posted December 14, 2011 05:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
With other people, I very rarely feel loved or appreciated. With certain people, I feel like I don't even have the right to talk to them, and I never feel like I have the right to bother people. I feel like I have to try hard with some people, though I never succeed. However, as per a book that I have read recently, I'm realizing more and more that I have to let go of people who don't make me feel loved or appreciated and stop putting any kind of effort into those relationships, because it's just draining.

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I think there is a catch here. Is it them or is it you? As an 8th mooner, I know that I tend to feel unloved and not nurtured no matter what the others do. I read about Venus in the 12th when I was reading about my moon, there was this couple who came for astrological advice - they were in fact happily married, but the lady felt unloved. Once she realized that the problem was in fact with her feelings, and not the way her husband treated her, they were ok.

posted December 14, 2011 08:14 PM            

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I'm an 8th mooner myself--in *drumroll* Cancer.

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Hehe, I have moon in Taurus, but it's unaspected and conjunct Chiron and it is said to be more sensitive than a Cancer moon. I think that you are on the right path. I used to worry too, but then I realized that am bound to rub some people the wrong way since I'm a Plutonian. And it is not a natural law for people to like other people - it's not even personal, it's chemistry that works or it doesn't. I figured since I don't like all the people I interact with, they also have the freedom of no liking me (sometimes not liking me back).
Have you had your first Saturn return yet?

posted December 14, 2011 10:18 PM            

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Originally posted by maira:
Also, about Coffee, I let him (her) slide the last time he got banned, but now I'll express my views whenever we meet in topics. It is my opinion that his way of "reinventing" astrology is complete and utter BS.[/B]

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I haven't been banned from this forum yet. If that's what you are referring to.

The big difference with looking at astrology in the way I have is from a house perspective as opposed to a planet perspective. A planet perspective astrologer will look and say that Venus is all about love as this is what Libra represents. A house perspective looks at 7th house for love as that is where Libra (love) is naturally.

Op, you can look at the Saturn ruled house and say it's Venus influenced - the reverse too. Or, like I said before, you can link the houses together as one. Looking at the Saturn ruled house with Venus influenced, or Venus ruled houses with Saturn influence is called isolation.

posted December 14, 2011 10:27 PM            

------------------
Want a peek in to my journal?

posted December 15, 2011 12:57 AM            

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I've been struggling to understand the implications and the general interpretations have been vague and hazy, to say the least.

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Yeah, there are certain houses that generally have more vague definitions than concrete ones. The 12th house is one of them... I find that it helps me to think of the sign that traditionally corresponds with the house (12th house = Pisces). That often helps to understand the concepts of the house, since I usually understand the concepts of the sign.

With Venus and Saturn in the 12th house, I would tend to think that you probably hide or guard your feelings quite closely and you might be something of a stoic type. You won't necessarily want to reveal all that emotionally is going on with you, especially your loving feelings towards others. Those feelings may feel too intense or 'larger than you' in a sense and so you have difficulties expressing them in words or actions.

That's just my first reaction to both Venus and Saturn in the 12th. I don't think that it necessarily means you will have some sort of secret affair, as we all have choice in life. A lot of people around this site seem to make the 12th house into this big hyped up house of lies and deceit (Neptune too). Heaven forbid someone else's Venus fall into my 12th house! Oh the horror!!! They will cheat! They must cheat for they fall into your 12th house and they will LIE to you!!! *cue melodramatic music here*

Honestly though, and I've said this about the 12th house before, if you are aware of your planets/issues with the 12th house and you keep everything above board, things usually go ok. I've known quite a few people whose planets have fallen into my 12th. Some have lied to me, but many have not.

I also have Saturn in the 12th (incidentally sextiling my own Venus on the 10th cusp), so I can relate to some of the Saturn-Venus 12th stuff. Mostly for me, Saturn in the 12th means that it can often be difficult for me to see my own ego problems. I want to sublimate my ego desires so I can be helpful and loving to all, but at the same time, I end up blinded to some of my own selfish tendencies that slip out when I least expect them. It usually takes someone else pointing them out to me for me to realize the effects of my actions or words (usually words, since my Saturn in the 12th rules my 3rd house).

posted December 15, 2011 06:39 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
maira,

Sorry I'm too new to astrology to understand transits and their implications.

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posted December 15, 2011 06:44 AM            

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Originally posted by Coffee:
I haven't been banned from this forum yet. If that's what you are referring to.

The big difference with looking at astrology in the way I have is from a house perspective as opposed to a planet perspective. A planet perspective astrologer will look and say that Venus is all about love as this is what Libra represents. A house perspective looks at 7th house for love as that is where Libra (love) is naturally.

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posted December 15, 2011 09:16 AM            

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Originally posted by enchantress299:
With Venus and Saturn in the 12th house, I would tend to think that you probably hide or guard your feelings quite closely and you might be something of a stoic type. You won't necessarily want to reveal all that emotionally is going on with you, especially your loving feelings towards others. Those feelings may feel too intense or 'larger than you' in a sense and so you have difficulties expressing them in words or actions.

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The most curious part is that I have the *reverse* problem. I am expressive to the utmost and a bit much. Yes, outside of affection, I am guarded and reserved, but the difficulty in expression is definitely not true. I used to write original romantic poetry as a hobby. I say ILY readily to everybody, and those who don't know me get all uncomfortable.

posted December 15, 2011 09:39 AM            

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Originally posted by maira:
Saturn return happens roughly every 30 years (usually when the person is 29 and a half and 59 and a half, but it can happen as early as 27 years old, I think). Saturn return is a milestone - major events happen (divorce, career change, marriage). The reason I asked you is because Saturn's return in 12th was a very difficult milestone in my life, and I've read similar stories. It's easier for me to take a look at your chart and tell you the date when it happened than explain how it's done, so if you want to put up your numbers, I'll take a look for you.

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Thank you very much.

My 30th birthday was extremely eventful. On my birthday itself around Christmas, my boss hosted an afternoon party for me. During the party at the financial services company I worked (a venture capital firm), a team of interior designers dropped by to take a look at the new offices that they were supposed to decorate.

My birthday cake was large and there was champagne, as was typical of everything my boss did and his millionaire extravagance, and this group of interior designers were invited into the conference room for a slice of cake. There were three extremely pretty women in this group but I had my eyes fixated on one in particular. However, as per professional decorum, I refrained from being overly flirtatious and couldn't get to her from opposite a crowded conference room. I didn't see her for two months after that.

Fast forward to the end of February, my future wife showed up briefly for two days. I was in my office working and we didn't speak. At the end of the second day, we decided that we would go to lunch the next day, and then dinner that night. And then lunch the next day, and dinner again that night. And she said "I Love You" first in 12 days, and we agreed in principal to get married in 25 days. 11 weeks after we started dating, we were officially married when I was 30 years and 5 months old.

posted December 15, 2011 08:34 PM            

your mercury conjunct mars (i have this; it's very thinky/talky) is in your 11th house of friends and groups trining your uranus pluto conjunction. all of that seems to be extreme extroversion, and intense need for connection to others.

also, your venus is on the exact cusp of your eleventh/twelfth house in aquarius which is, again, social and in its own house (barely, sort of. even a couple of minutes off on your birth time and it would be in your 11th).

all of that, in my opinion, would quell the depressive tendencies of saturn in the 12th. saturn in the 12th can also be control issues, as far as i know, or repressed dreams, etc.

posted December 15, 2011 11:03 PM            

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Originally posted by woah cakes:
i see many indications of expressiveness in your chart, beginning with your 3rd house gemini moon. that is emotionally inspired commnication in the house of communication!

your mercury conjunct mars (i have this; it's very thinky/talky) is in your 11th house of friends and groups trining your uranus pluto conjunction. all of that seems to be extreme extroversion, and intense need for connection to others.

also, your venus is on the exact cusp of your eleventh/twelfth house in aquarius which is, again, social and in its own house (barely, sort of. even a couple of minutes off on your birth time and it would be in your 11th).

all of that, in my opinion, would quell the depressive tendencies of saturn in the 12th. saturn in the 12th can also be control issues, as far as i know, or repressed dreams, etc.

cancer north node would compel you to be very emotionally expressive (and you would feel best in so doing). it is in your 5th so is extremely romantic, and again, expressive.

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Woah! woah cakes !!

posted December 16, 2011 12:17 AM            

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The most curious part is that I have the *reverse* problem. I am expressive to the utmost and a bit much. Yes, outside of affection, I am guarded and reserved, but the difficulty in expression is definitely not true. I used to write original romantic poetry as a hobby. I say ILY readily to everybody, and those who don't know me get all uncomfortable.

Thank you very much for your contribution!

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Well... You know, it manifests differently for different people of course, and also of course, I don't also have Venus in the 12th, so I only really know how the Saturn in the 12th manifests for me...

However, I would say, what you have said does make SOME sense, because, as I have said, I typically relate the 12th house to Pisces (which traditionally rules the 12th). Pisces is all about very loose boundaries, and not recognizing boundaries, if not outright dissolution of boundaries. So, I could see it manifesting in the sense of being overly expressive of love or compassion (to the point of being uncomfortable to others) because you simply don't recognize those boundaries. They don't register for you. Does that make sense?