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Author Topic:   Sun and Saturn both can Represent Father
amelia28
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posted December 18, 2011 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32344

4th house is ruled by cancer/moon so naturally it represents the nourishing mother who loves you unconditionally.

10th house is ruled by capricorn/saturn: the parent who disciplines and provides for the family.

Saturn is the disciplinarian and works hard to provide for his and her family. Saturn teaches you lessons and your parents teach you lessons since you are born and work hard to provide for you and discipline you and punish you when they need to teach you a lesson.

Based on link and deductive reasoning it makes perfect sense that traditionally speaking father represents saturn and moon represents mother bc of the traditional roles of both.

Further more we all have karma with our parents or with at least one of them naturally since we exist bc of them so saturn representing one of the parents makes sense from this light as well.

Why does the Sun represent the father? What is the logic behind this one?

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athenegoddess
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posted December 18, 2011 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for athenegoddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"All aspects from the Moon tell us what mother was like and all aspects from the Sun dictate our father’s legacy to us."
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_family_e.htm

In astrology the Sun has great significance. It signifies Father. It represents 'individuality' and 'the energy', which initiates all action. Without the Sun our solar system would not exist. It describes our life force. The Sun is an important factor when considering the health of an individual. It rules vitamins A and D and the minerals Iodine and Magnesium. On entering the sign Leo, the Sun is said to exemplify cosmic splendor. The meaning attached to this seems to be that both the good and bad characteristics associated with Leo are perpetual. Sun governs confidence, authority and status. The Sun reveals a person's character and is the prime indicator of what the individual is trying to achieve.

Key concepts for the Sun are Individuality, Vitality, Father (also the husband in a woman's chart), Creativity and Will/Determination/Confidence etc.
http://www.whereincity.com/astrology/sun.php


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amowls**
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posted December 18, 2011 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls**     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's better to think of these things in more abstract terms, especially in this century when there are a lot of households with two working parents.

I think Saturn/10th house can represent HOW you were discplined/financially supported instead of WHO. Same with 4th: HOW you were nurtured instead of WHO did the nurturing.

Really, my 10th could be EITHER my mom or my dad. My mom is the one who works to give me money. My dad doesn't really support me financially at all (they are married). My 10th is in Pisces (my mom is a Pisces Sun/ASC). Saturn is in Sagittarius (my dad is a Sag Moon/ASC). My parents were very lax with discipline (Sag) and weren't home a lot of the time (Pisces) so I was basically free to do whatever... within reason of course.

The Sun is the opposite of the Moon, and in a lot of mythology, represents Man (Moon is Woman), hence why the Sun represents the father. A lot of things, including astrology texts, were written with the idea that a man was the primary audience (women are always afterthoughts to a lot of ancient scholars/philosophers), which is why the Sun (Man) is the Ego/your Father because you want to grow to be your dad (somewhat Freudian before Freud existed).

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amelia28
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posted December 18, 2011 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amowls**:

I think Saturn/10th house can represent HOW you were discplined/financially supported instead of WHO. Same with 4th: HOW you were nurtured instead of WHO did the nurturing.


I think you are right on! This resonates and makes perfect sense given modern society.

I think when we look at the chart to see relationship influence of mother and father is good to keep in mind that were you find the father or mother will have some degree of variation.

Personally I Have 0 daddy issues. My dad's saturn conjuncts my sun and I have MC in virgo and his saturn is in virgo. The only aspect I have to saturn is saturn conjunct pluto. Dad is a psychologist and I am studying psychology. He has been a positive influence in my life but never in a controlling way. He is a good listener and I always felt accepted and understood by him even if we see some things different. With mom I felt she never listened to me but now she is better at this.

I had mommy issues for a long time and my moon conjuncts IC and I did have everything I needed growing up and felt nurtured by both but my moon opposes sun and mercury and my mom wanted to turn me into her ego wise and intellectually so there were power struggles growing up and poor boundaries bc of her (my moon squares my neptune). She is the moon and I am neptune I feel as My strongest planet is neptune in my chart and strongest sign sag.

My dad works from home and my mom is the workaholic. Her approach in discipline is more saturnic and my dad's approach is more pisces but this is bc her 5th is cap and his 5th is in pisces.

Its all very abstract and personal like you say when it comes to charts and finding the paternal and maternal influence and how is played out bc MC in virgo is my dad whose saturn conjuncts my sun so I see MC, Saturn and Sun been related to my dad. My mom is IC in pisces as her jupiter is in pisces and she is nourishing but she did more of the discipline than my dad and my dad is the one that would cook dinner for us but cooking dinner for us very moon in virgo.

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Capriquarius
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posted December 18, 2011 10:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to think that Saturn represents the father because of the equivalence to Kronos, the father who swallowed his children. But I guess the theme of the myth is more about limits and boundaries (being imprisoned, restricted) rather than being a parent.

Makes sense that Sun would represent the father and the energetic self when you look at it from a biological perspective. You can't be brought to life without the sperm donor. Saturn might be an authority figure in one's life.

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amelia28
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posted December 18, 2011 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=201&orig=
http://www.astrology.com/finding-father-where-dad-your-horoscope/2-d-d-359028

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lindisfarne
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posted December 18, 2011 11:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lindisfarne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Uranus can be the father too


Saturn and Uranus are both fathers, just think of their parenting styles as polar opposites.

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Capriquarius
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posted December 18, 2011 11:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindisfarne:
Uranus can be the father too


Saturn and Uranus are both fathers, just think of their parenting styles as polar opposites.



You got a point there. Uranus was the original father.....the unlimited sky.

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lindisfarne
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posted December 18, 2011 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lindisfarne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Capriquarius:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lindisfarne:
[b]Uranus can be the father too


Saturn and Uranus are both fathers, just think of their parenting styles as polar opposites.



You got a point there. Uranus was the original father.....the unlimited sky.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes a few days I kind of stumbled upon this in the car. for some reason.

Ouranos according to mythology was the father and he had Cronos (saturn) saturn just got rid of him and became the father. but i generally think of Uranus as the REAL father. But altogether both have two VERY different parenting styles, polar opposites.

One will let you go out and experiment and live your life as long as you're being YOU.

The other will warn you, and probably give you all these forewarnings about the path you wanna take in life, and if you obviously don't listen you'll get punished

thats how I think of it.

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amelia28
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posted December 18, 2011 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It makes sense that Uranus was the real father bc parenting is suppose to be about helping your children find their own voice and carve their own path not about controlling and trying to mold them into yourself which is more saturnic.

Great input Lindis about the Uranus father ...

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PhoenixFire
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posted December 19, 2011 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PhoenixFire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would Saturn and the Sun represent only the biological father, our is it the father figure in a child's life? My biological father has never been in my life, and I do have harsh aspects involving Saturn/Sun/Moon.

I do however have a wonderful father figure, as my mom and adopted father have been together in my life since infancy. I see and call my adopted father dad, and am actually closer to him than to my mom.

I'm curious if the hard contacts involving Sun/Saturn/Moon indicate the circumstances around my conception or if this applies to my relationship with my adopted father? The subject is very intriguing to me, as now a days divorce and step families are quite common.

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athenegoddess
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posted December 19, 2011 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for athenegoddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Think logically about this one.
If an outer planet is the father, that means everyone is going to have the same father that was born around the same time as you. Makes zero sense.

My gawd.

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BelligerentPygmy
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posted December 19, 2011 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BelligerentPygmy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Think logically about this one.
If an outer planet is the father, that means everyone is going to have the same father that was born around the same time as you. Makes zero sense.

My gawd.


You think too simplistically and too literally about this, and that's where you end up going off the rails. You have to look at the aspects to the planets. Aspects. A lot of times those WILL tell you stuff if you know what you're doing. But yeah if your mind goes as far as "That's generational so it means everyone has the same daddy so it's BS" then yeah you'll miss the point.

My 10th house is Sag and Jupiter is in the eighth conjunct Saturn and honestly it fits to a tee when the aspects it's making are taken into account.

Incidentally I went into all of this in detail over on the Astro boards, and pretty much successfully proved that dad is 10th, mom is fourth (and the moon) and pretty much blew a hole in any and all theories otherwise but people still want to try and insist on something different.

But then again like I said - amateur astrologers love to try and rewrite the science. Which is why astrology has such a c.rappy rep among the public at large and most insist that it's just a bunch of bs, because you have a crapload of novices changing up all the rules and then getting a bunch of faulty, inaccurate readings as a result.

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athenegoddess
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posted December 19, 2011 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for athenegoddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BelligerentPygmy:
You think too simplistically about this. You have to look at the aspects to the outer planets. Aspects. A lot of times those WILL tell you stuff if you know what you're doing. But yeah if your mind goes as far as "That's generational so it means everyone has the same daddy so it's BS" then yeah you'll miss the point.

My 10th house is Sag and Jupiter is in the eighth conjunct Saturn and honestly it fits to a tee when the aspects it's making are taken into account.

Incidentally I went into all of this in detail over on the Astro boards, and pretty much successfully proved that dad is 10th, mom is fourth (and the moon) and pretty much blew a hole in any and all theories otherwise but people still want to try and insist on something different.

But then again like I said - amateur astrologers love to try and rewrite the science. Which is why astrology has such a c.rappy rep among the public at large and most insist that it's just a bunch of bs, because you have a crapload of novices changing up all the rules and then getting a bunch of faulty, inaccurate readings as a result.


Doesn't matter. The Sun is the father any way you look at it. And if it's not, then what is it?

You know how people who are religious see God as a Man? Well, there is a reason for that. Because the Sun is a man and the Sun fuels all living things.

You know when they pray and say 'father' they are calling God father but they are actually praying to their Sun signs and their Sun's egos.

The Sun is the father because he creates with the Mother and they are separate from the rest of the planets. Saying the father is an outer planet is only what an amateur would do.

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Cynnared
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posted December 19, 2011 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cynnared     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will be putting down a strongly recommended book suggestion here as it expands on this further with some good details. I have this book myself and I just LOVE it!


Astrological Insights into Personality, ACS Publishing, 1980; By the talented Betty Lundsted!

On another note I can see the Sun/father influence in my chart quite clearly and can relate to what Betty has written in her books about certain aspects. I have sun opposite uranus square to mars - my father is an extremely violent and hotheaded person. If I didn't do anything right, in his eyes, even a little thing he would try and tear the life out of me. He was never around and is a very eccentric person. He did dare devil things like demolition derbies during his stock car days. I have Saturn in the 12 - it shows a lack of father figure in one life in some interpretations.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted December 19, 2011 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah.

My Sun in Capricorn is in my 10th House too. Family provider. My Saturn is in the 12th House, so the discipline is there but subdued I guess.

But please keep my father outta my sun lol Can't stand him! Although I'm fast becoming like him

I don't have any planets in my 4th House. But my NN is Cancer in the 5th House, and it conjuncts my wife's ASC in Cancer. My wife's Moon is Gemini (hers is in 12th House) and sits in my 4th House (my moon is also Gemini).

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VenusDiSirius
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posted December 20, 2011 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amelia,where's your Saturn/Pluto thread?

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amelia28
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posted December 20, 2011 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Amelia,where's your Saturn/Pluto thread?

excellent question! I am looking for it myself LOL........LL was acting crazy last night. I keep posting things and it will then erase. hopefully it will show up.

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amelia28
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posted December 20, 2011 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cynnared:
I will be putting down a strongly recommended book suggestion here as it expands on this further with some good details. I have this book myself and I just LOVE it!


Astrological Insights into Personality, ACS Publishing, 1980; By the talented Betty Lundsted!

On another note I can see the Sun/father influence in my chart quite clearly and can relate to what Betty has written in her books about certain aspects. I have sun opposite uranus square to mars - my father is an extremely violent and hotheaded person. If I didn't do anything right, in his eyes, even a little thing he would try and tear the life out of me. He was never around and is a very eccentric person. He did dare devil things like demolition derbies during his stock car days. I have Saturn in the 12 - it shows a lack of father figure in one life in some interpretations.


I am starting to lean more towards the idea that the 4th cusp represents your mom and the 10th cusp your dad. A rulership approach. My mom is neptune and my dad mercury. Interestingly both my 7th and 10th are ruled by mercury. 10th cups in virgo and dad has moon in virgo and is a psychologist and I am also getting my masters in psychology so he influenced my career path bc intellectually we are a lot more similar than my mother and I hence why he rules mercury as my mercury is in the 9th, higher learning.

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violet7887
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posted December 20, 2011 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for violet7887     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very Interesting Amelia

This makes incredable sense in my natal chart. My 10th house is Leo and my Dad is a Leo Sun. I'm veryy close to him. Whats even more interesting is my Mother has her Moon in my 4th housse!! My dad has always been an outsstanding provider and i love him for his openhearted teachings. I have more fun with him though cuase he also has moon in my 5th! And of coarse my mom is a true nurturer and very warm when i need mommy time(moon in cancer lol!) Love them both with all my heart. Thanks for posting

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amelia28
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posted December 21, 2011 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by violet7887:
Very Interesting Amelia

This makes incredable sense in my natal chart. My 10th house is Leo and my Dad is a Leo Sun. I'm veryy close to him. Whats even more interesting is my Mother has her Moon in my 4th housse!! My dad has always been an outsstanding provider and i love him for his openhearted teachings. I have more fun with him though cuase he also has moon in my 5th! And of coarse my mom is a true nurturer and very warm when i need mommy time(moon in cancer lol!) Love them both with all my heart. Thanks for posting


You are welcome! Thanks for participating!

awwwww moon in cancer is so nice isn't it? You feel safe, protected, accepted and looved by the moon in cancer person. The best hugers I bet are moon in cancer.

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blueskiez06
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posted October 06, 2013 02:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiez06     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i was thinking about this ... totally true, Sun part- my dad was big on family, especially extended family, he'd give the world for them, literally jump oceans to help them, saturn part ... indicates he truly was a workaholic...to him work kept him sane and he said it builds charachter

i have sun sextiles saturn, all in all a positive effect in life

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23
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posted October 06, 2013 05:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I follow traditional meanings so the 10th rules the mother and the 4th rules the father. So, the rulers of those houses in your charts would rule the respective parents and in a natural chart (which is roughly mine), mother is Saturn and father is Moon.

I back this up by saying that traditionally, children would spend more time with their mothers and hence, the mothers would shape them more - 10th, which is more future orientated. One's heritage is often dictated paternally and hence the 4th for the father - your roots.

I see the Sun as the life partner you seek, a male partner and not the father (while Mars represents the sexual partner, the hottie you sought out in your younger days - boyfriend, lover).

Following what I said, this fits in perfectly with what has occurred in my life with my father and mother and life partner.

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PeterPan
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posted October 06, 2013 06:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeterPan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, i even see a connection between my saturn and my father, as he's sun is conjunct my saturn.

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IrisRainbow
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posted October 06, 2013 06:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IrisRainbow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's why a hard aspect between Sun and Saturn indicates a distant father or problems with the father and the authority.

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