posted December 20, 2011 06:15 PM            

I think we need to start focusing less on "story telling" to explain the meaning of the Zodiac and graduate to more literal meanings. If every symbol (ie Crab for Cancer) represents the natural forces that create our reality, then why don't we use a more literal representation for each sign?

Another example is Aquarius. I cannot tell you guys how many times I've had to explain that Aquarius is an air sign and not a water sign. They're always like, "But Aquarius is a water sign. It's the water bearer!" And I'm like, "Um, yeah, (mythology story)." And they're all like:

And then I'm all like: *FACEPALM*

Aries is Cardinal Fire. Instead of saying that Aries is represented by the Ram because Zeus did blah blah blah because of etc etc, I liken Aries to a wild, uncontrollable forest fire, sweeping across the land, creating change and rebirth. The spark of life. That's why Mars once ruled over Scorpio. Some say that Mars (Aries) brings about death, while Pluto (Scorpio) brings about rebirth. Interesting, eh?

And it makes so much sense! Here are the rest of the Zodiac. I use these all the time now to explain astrology to people.

Aries - Cardinal Fire. Spark of life. Forest Fire. A Newborn Star.
Taurus - Fixed Earth. The Earth itself. The Mountains. Natural resources. Oil. Diamonds. Precious Jewels. Minerals.
Gemini - Mutable Air. The weather and changing skies.
Cancer - Cardinal Water. The ocean tides.

Leo - Fixed Fire. The Sun (duh). A bonfire in which people surround themselves for warmth.
Virgo - Mutable Earth. The diverse plants and animals that cultivate our earth.
Libra - Cardinal Air. The Easterly and Westerly Winds. The trade winds that move across the earth to create balance.
Scorpio - Fixed Water. The deepest parts of the ocean. Strong ocean currents. The mystery of the origin of life. (Life began deep in the ocean)

Sagittarius - Mutable Fire. Electricity. Shooting stars that remind us to look up at the sky to discover life beyond our own world.
Capricorn - Cardinal Earth. A tree that started out as a small seed and grew with many years into a mighty, everlasting Oak.
Aquarius - Fixed Air. The invisible world around us. The unchanging forces that create the world around us. Physics. Gravity. Time. Energy. Inertia.
Pisces - Mutable Water. Rivers and the rain, bringing rejuvenation to all the living creatures of the land.

Does any of this make sense? Hopefully, I didn't offend anyone. I just think there's a more practical way of explaining the divine art of Astrology. Quite frankly, I think the mythology stories are a bit silly. :\

posted December 20, 2011 10:32 PM            

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Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Capricorn is more of a Dragon than a goat. The Animals used in the Zodiac signs have strong esoteric meaning to them and you must know the deeper symbolism.

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I think the biggest issue I have with explaining esoteric astrology is that it's not the most practical way of explaining the meaning behind the Zodiac.

For example, like RegardesPlaterno said: The Scales. But what do the scales have to do with Cardinal Air? I know it sounds silly and ignorant, but from an outsider prospective it all seems very... convoluted.

I remember when I started learning about astrology like 7 years ago... I used to just know each sign for what it was. Cancer is a crab, so they have a protective shell and are indirect. Aries is a ram, so they are forceful and bold. As soon as I started learning about modalities, elements, and houses... all I could wonder was, "How does this tie into the actual symbols of the Zodiac...?" How does one know that Taurus is a fixed earth sign? Because it's represented by Venus? But why is Venus a fixed earth sign? And where in the mythology did this all come from?

An acquaintance in college is an Aquarius and I remember explaining to her why Aquarius is Air and not Water. It didn't make sense to her because 1) It's represented by the Water Bearer, which is confusing, and 2) Elements are very rarely explained in horoscopes. That's another post for another day... My point is when I have to explain elements and modality, I find it difficult to explain the coherence between the mythology and origins of the Zodiac and how one analyzes celestial phenomenon.

I just think stripping everything down to the bare essentials is the way to go. For example, I'd say: The Zodiac represents natural forces that create the world as we know it. Scorpio represents fixed water - The deepest parts of the ocean.

posted December 21, 2011 01:43 AM            

There are so many weird intricacies which seem to just pan out when considering the current symbols. Take Capricorn for example, she is not just a goat, she is a goat with a fish tail. The image represents not only the methodical and calculated mountain climber, but the intuitive/emotional force which trails behind (constantly challenging Capricorn to synthesize utility with humanity).

I love the idea of Sag as a shooting star, as it often inspires in people the same feeling Sag so desperately wants to inspire. What of the alchemical struggle Sag faces, taming and integrating it's base urges? The centaur takes a skilled and broad-sighted human and glues it to the body of a wild fat-legged horse (Perhaps that's why Sag is always laughing because we are a walking cruel joke LOL). Part of the archetype is expressed in that horse/rider relationship, the struggle to teach one's self dressage HAha.

posted December 21, 2011 03:17 AM            

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I like the idea, I just feel the traditional symbols are ironically perfect for describing their archetypes.

There are so many weird intricacies which seem to just pan out when considering the current symbols. Take Capricorn for example, she is not just a goat, she is a goat with a fish tail. The image represents not only the methodical and calculated mountain climber, but the intuitive/emotional force which trails behind (constantly challenging Capricorn to synthesize utility with humanity).

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posted December 21, 2011 03:29 AM            

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Take Capricorn for example, she is not just a goat, she is a goat with a fish tail.

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*laughing*

Oh, psshhh! No it's not. You might be thinking of the next sign over - Pisces.

Everybody knows Cappies are the hard-a$$es of the zodiac and an earth sign. They have nothing to do with intuitive ability or any of the Piscean traits you're trying to give them.

posted December 21, 2011 04:12 AM            

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As the cardinal earth sign Capricorn portrays the enduring and irrepressible spirit of nature. There is a productive fecundity inherent in the symbolism of the goat-fish that is dismissed too lightly if we fail to explore the deeper meanings of this complex ancient symbol.

Many astrologers consider Capricorn to be the most enigmatic and mysterious sign of the zodiac. All of the cardinal signs indicate seats of power and in a creature with the forelimbs of a goat attached to the tail of a fish, the abyss of the ocean is combined with mountainous terrain. This represents a 'cross of matter' between the psyche and its manifestation in the material, drawing the soul out of its collective stupor to confront the challenges of reality and individualism. The ocean, besides symbolising primordial roots, relates to instinctive wisdom, secrets, and knowledge that lies buried within the depths of consciousness. Capricorn, bearing only the tail of an aquatic creature, keeps a head that is free from impressionable thought - at a rational level Capricorns are affected only by what they can define through logic and reasoned assessment, but unconsciously, spiritually and emotionally they draw from the deep. This is a sign that is anything but shallow and superficial; beneath the Capricorn's cool, reserved and calculating exterior lies a profound resource of emotional strength, psychic resilience and earthy endurance. The recognisable character traits of the sign reveal compulsion, dedication and perseverance in its aims and interests. Capricorns may not impress others by their motivation but neither do they seek the easy approval or widespread attention of others. Their ambitions - in relationships, career and personal growth - are rooted in an 'inner' motivation that runs too deep to be easily shaken. Their strengths (and their faults) are based upon the qualities of stamina, fortitude, staying power and survival.

Some see the Capricorn's scaly tail as that of the sea-serpent, a creature of 'old knowledge', wise in matters of the occult and offering a potential for understanding beyond limited, earthly experience. Capricorns are known for being 'older than their years' and those who take up the study of mysteries and traditions gravitate towards a masterly knowledge of their craft just as the business minded Capricorn will gravitate towards the managerial position. Mastery and power are the understated keywords of this sign. Even the earthy aspect of the goat is frequently underestimated in its potential for symbolising hidden reserves of strength.

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posted December 21, 2011 04:50 AM            

As for you BelligerentPygmy... Oh wait... I don't care.

posted December 21, 2011 04:18 PM            

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Originally posted by ElizabethO:
Not to deter from more serious discussion, I just have to say that sea goats... are WEIRD. I mean - a goat... with a FISH TAIL? No wonder so many people think we're weird, lol.

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Seagoats are not weird!
I haven't heard anyone calling them weird...

posted December 21, 2011 04:50 PM            

For instance, you suggested electricity for Sag. However, we associate Uranus/Aqua with electricity. See what I'm saying? It comes a confusion of symbolism.

There is no such thing as "literal symbolism". You either are symbolic (even when inventing new symbols) or you are literal.

posted December 21, 2011 05:31 PM            

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Originally posted by anongrl10:
Fascinating question but looking for new symbols is not a process without many potential problems.

For instance, you suggested electricity for Sag. However, we associate Uranus/Aqua with electricity. See what I'm saying? It comes a confusion of symbolism.

There is no such thing as "literal symbolism". You either are symbolic (even when inventing new symbols) or you are literal.

The Zodiac is a symbolism.
Like the cards in a Tarot deck, they tell a story. Perhaps the symbols are ancient but their rich symbolism is due to their centuries-long lineage.

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Hmm, this discussion reminds me of my Christian friend in high school. She's very, very religious and studied religion in college. I'm not religious at all, so often she would make an extra effort to spark some interest in me. Never worked. Silly Aries. Seven years later and she still hasn't given up. :P

I remember her and I talking about the bible and how it bothers me that so many people take the bible so literally (I really don't want to turn this into a discussion about religion). I feel that over the centuries that the bible has metamorphosed into an anti-intuitive, misrepresentation of what was previously a belief system rich in symbolism. I mean - look at the creation story and the fall of Adam and Eve.

Anywho, perhaps some things should remain allegorical, especially things that pertain to spirituality. Allegory is important because every individual should be allowed to take what they will from the symbolic. Otherwise, we are only left with a subjective point of view.

posted December 21, 2011 07:59 PM            

Mythology was probably just a way to get people to remember and understand in a way they could relate to... most people didn't read or write back then...