posted December 22, 2011 05:12 PM            

I understand it in others, and can largely sympathsize with it. I can not empathize with it though.

posted December 22, 2011 05:53 PM            

Perhaps then your self undueing is playing second fiddle to someone when you are actually called forth to be a leader in ways you cannot see...perhaps it is in being too critical of others...where is your mercury? I'm not saying you do this...I'm just saying these are possibilities for Virgo in the 12th. Virgo would be the ability to help someone with the details but may lack compassion...like Pisces....you have pisces in the sixth i'm guessing so your undueing...or gold in the shadow involves a balancing of these energies...

posted December 22, 2011 06:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chironrising:
Taut....that's very interesting because that resonates with Virgo in the 12th house.

Perhaps then your self undueing is playing second fiddle to someone when you are actually called forth to be a leader in ways you cannot see...perhaps it is in being too critical of others...where is your mercury? I'm not saying you do this...I'm just saying these are possibilities for Virgo in the 12th. Virgo would be the ability to help someone with the details but may lack compassion...like Pisces....you have pisces in the sixth i'm guessing so your undueing...or gold in the shadow involves a balancing of these energies...

for me it's taurus and scorpio - a difficult one indeed...especially with saturn conjunct south node in scorpio in the sixth.....I too feel this way about self undueing..

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I'm having a bit of a difficult time understanding what you wrote. Either way, here's how I see it. Self-sabatouge is to me when someone ruins something for themselves when things are good. Additionally they are aware it might occur and can see it happening. They are intentionally causing the problems. I have had a few friends be this way in life.

I NEVER place the blame on someone else if it is not justified. Hell the vast majority of the time the blame for most anything is on myself. At times I can lack compassion on others if they are being stupid. It sounds mean, but one of the biggest (if not the biggest) cardinal sin someone can commit with me is to be AWARE of their problems, their faults, etc. And ACTIVELY deny doing anything about them when something could be done. I really can't tolerate it, it's pathetic! I see self-sabatouge as one in the same with that. Have I had good things or good possible things for me in the past that I ruined? Yes. I wouldn't call it self sabatouge in those cases though. In one particular case was close to it, but not completely because of my life circumstances.

posted December 22, 2011 06:23 PM            

although some people will never admit to it until they undergoe a tragedy and then transform....

I had a friend who was very passive aggressive. He never realized though that he would rant hours upon hours about everyone. He had a dream that he was beating back a shadow from under the bed with led pipping. I tried to explain to him that he has yet to acknowledge the thing which annoy him about others are the thing which he himself does very frequently...when I told him this he became angry...passive aggressive.

posted December 23, 2011 02:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chironrising:
nordicsoul - to stay on topic...I think south node + 12th house + planetary relationships affect this area...and it is so unique for everyone...almost too unique to make a general rule out of it...sometimes the 12th house is loaded well....like wise...someone with no 12th house planets may self undue frequently...we can see this with alot of celebrities who are 1st...2nd...and....3rd house heavy...but have few other planets...we can see it...or we can see it as having alot of transpersonal planets in the 12th house leading too it...for example paris hilton has uranus in scorpio in the 12th house...neptune conjunct ascendant in sagitarius....and pluto in the 11th house in libra...north node in the 8th house in leo....her self undueing (filthy raunchy porn tape) lead to dramatic transformation and realizations.....we can see how here eccentric sexuality lead to her demise when her grandfather took away her inheritence but then we see her emerge as a uniquely powerful feminine role model who came out on her own taking her tragedy and transforming it into a leonine business advantage....that's what I see there..

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should i look for aspect between the 12H ruler and planets? for instance mars (ruler of 12) conjunct sun and venus and moon and mercury with wide orbs. this means a hell of self-sabotaging (in relationship, in your orientation to life, in your emotional life, in your way of thinking)

posted December 23, 2011 03:55 AM            

As far as planets, the 12th house makes sense. Hmmm, some delicate planet perhaps, like the moon or even the Sun cuz the 12th house turns things inward, so they COULD self sabatage, I suppose.

Do you have 12th house planets. I wonder if Jupiter would self sabotage, if turned inward, just a thought.

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posted December 23, 2011 03:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chironrising:
It could be the negative of the southode...if you don't bounce between the positive opposites...so if you are a north node in virgo...you could end up being spaced out at the right time...south node in pisces...but then sticking in that spaced out state to the point of detriment.....and not going to the positive virgo...because of the negative critical virgo nature.....

I would go by sign first...for example...I have taurus in the 12th house...do you know what that means? I have trouble enjoy life because I'm always worried about money and security...so start just with the sign...

this could manifest in a thousand ways......but the sign shows the basic anxiety..or psychological area which is a blind spot.

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Really? Does the sign on the 12th house cusp show WHERE we have basic anxiety? I never heard that before. Please, explain more, if you can.

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Passion,Lust, Desire Check out my journal

posted March 23, 2012 03:54 AM            

I have noticed in the natives of this aspect that they tend to look for wrongs when things go right, as if they feel that something is still wrong.

posted March 23, 2012 04:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chironrising:
That's deep....but why the moon sun opposition...are you meaning in the 12th house?

IS you meaning that?

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I meant the general Sun-Moon opposition, but that being in the 12th house can make it worse.

8th house people can also be self-destructive; the 8th house is also the house of transformation and rebirth. In order for something to be transformed, it must first be destroyed.