posted January 12, 2012 07:44 PM            

We use ASC when we really needed to pump ourselves up -not arrogance- but a boost of confidence/support to help us in the outer world and the unknown = Super Ego.

We use our Sun as a more personal go-between of our 'innerselves' and how we will let others see us and interact with us. A semi-neutral ground but still not without guard = Ego.

And the Moon is how we feel, how we sometimes may wish we could act, and who we really wish others would accept us for = I.D.

Is this accurate with the connection you're making?

posted January 13, 2012 10:03 AM            

Geminisquared, the point is, the ascendent is not our personality, it's our veicule. It's how the people we meet in the first time think how your personality is, but not how we are on the inside.

posted January 13, 2012 10:12 AM            

I read that mars was the regular ego...

I read that the sun is simply vitality...or what gives the ego its energy

I read the moon is a filter for the collective unconcious/concious....I.e. the viel for the outer planets...

and I read that the ascendant was our self acknowledged projection....vs. the descendant which is our shadow...

posted January 13, 2012 10:45 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neptune'sDaughter:

We use ASC when we really needed to pump ourselves up -not arrogance- but a boost of confidence/support to help us in the outer world and the unknown = Super Ego.

---

But that is not what the Super Ego means in Psychology.

"Freud developed his concept of the super-ego from an earlier combination of the ego ideal and the "special psychical agency which performs the task of seeing that narcissistic satisfaction from the ego ideal is ensured...what we call our 'conscience'."[17] For him "the installation of the super-ego can be described as a successful instance of identification with the parental agency," while as development proceeds "the super-ego also takes on the influence of those who have stepped into the place of parents — educators, teachers, people chosen as ideal models."[18]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Super-ego

Transferring this into astrological terms, the Super Ego would be Saturn.

The others I would see the same way:
Sun = Ego
Moon = Id

posted January 13, 2012 12:19 PM            

and mars is most surely the ego based on others research...

the sun if anything is the personality...and the gemini ascendant is the mask of the personality, or the surface poking out of the water...

posted January 13, 2012 01:45 PM            

I'm not yet sure about moon being the ID anymore.

But for sure Sun is the Ego. Acrually, at all astrological researches about the sun It's pointed as our personality - our ego.

posted January 13, 2012 02:58 PM            

The Id is defined this way:

"The id is the unorganized part of the personality structure which contains the basic drives. The id acts according to the "pleasure principle", seeking to avoid pain or displeasure aroused by increases in instinctual tension.[2]

The id is unconscious by definition:

"It is the dark, inaccessible part of our personality, what little we know of it we have learned from our study of the dream-work and of the construction of neurotic symptoms, and most of that is of a negative character and can be described only as a contrast to the ego. We approach the id with analogies: we call it a chaos, a cauldron full of seething excitations... It is filled with energy reaching it from the instincts, but it has no organization, produces no collective will, but only a striving to bring about the satisfaction of the instinctual needs subject to the observance of the pleasure principle."[3]

In the id,

"contrary impulses exist side by side, without cancelling each other out....There is nothing in the id that could be compared with negation...nothing in the id which corresponds to the idea of time."[4]

Developmentally, the id precedes the ego; i.e. the psychic apparatus begins, at birth, as an undifferentiated id, part of which then develops into a structured ego. Thus, the id:

"...contains everything that is inherited, that is present at birth, is laid down in the constitution — above all, therefore, the instincts, which originate from the somatic organization, and which find a first psychical expression here (in the id) in forms unknown to us." [5]"

Ego:

"The ego acts according to the reality principle; i.e. it seeks to please the id’s drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bringing grief.[12] At the same time, Freud concedes that as the ego "attempts to mediate between id and reality, it is often obliged to cloak the Ucs. [Unconscious] commands of the id with its own Pcs. [Preconscious] rationalizations, to conceal the id's conflicts with reality, to profess...to be taking notice of reality even when the id has remained rigid and unyielding."[13]

The ego comprises of the organized part of the personality structure that includes defensive, perceptual, intellectual-cognitive, and executive functions. Conscious awareness resides in the ego, although not all of the operations of the ego are conscious. Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defence, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory.[1] The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organise our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us.[1]"The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world ... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions ... in its relation to the id it is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces."[14]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

posted January 13, 2012 08:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frozen Queen:
Erm, I've always read the Sun being the Ego and the Moon being the Id.

---

Interesting, also as Ceridwen said about ID, it perfectlly matches with my moon in Libra. My first instinct is to be peacefull and sociable, I'd like to have 1000 friends and go there talking to anyone, and always looking pretty!

posted January 14, 2012 05:15 AM            

This is actually not easy to understand. Of course if an astrologer hears "Desire", he thinks "Mars".
But imo, both Mars and Moon relate to our desire / instinctive needs.
The difference is that Mars knows what it wants and will move heaven and earth to get the desired object/ outcome/ person.

Moon on the other hand is our yet unformed instinctive needs. WE feel that we want something, that we need something, but we cannot really name what it is. And we surely have no clue how to get it.

Moon relates to the baby ust outside the womb, completely dependent on the mother or others to care for Moon`s needs.
When we grow up we of course we find ways to refine this neediness, and the other planets help us, through understanding (Mercury) or strength and will to get what we want and need (Mars).

But deep inside this is what Moon (and IC) is about, the deepest core needs we have, and there is not really a choice about it, but not always a great awareness either (depending on placement and aspects of and to the Moon).

posted January 14, 2012 07:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by maira:
[BI remember reading that the Ascendant represents the way we learned how to handle conflict in childhood (amongst other things). [/B]

---

I don´t think that is true. ASC is our unconditioned reaction to the world. It is the "birth-point" after all. There is no condition yet. That is why I don´t think it is signfiying the Super Ego.
Besides we are mixing planets and angles here, not sure this is advisable.

posted January 14, 2012 09:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I completely agree!

Very interesting topic, lu_pirate!

Me, I have a Sagittarius ASC, Libra Sun, Cancer moon

makes a TON of sense in my own life!

---

Thanks I'm glad I could brought this kind of discussion here! Hope to bring more!!

posted January 15, 2012 06:13 AM            

For example, some would say that the ego is the sun..however, the sun in itself is the vital principle, meaming it is conciouss will, but without memory - moon/mercury continuum...then there is no ego...without will to war, or will to will...mars/mercury...there is no ego..

posted January 15, 2012 06:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
[b]ID Mars; H12;
EGO Sun,Chart Ruler; Stellium;
SUPER-EGO Saturn,Jupiter;[/B]

---

posted January 15, 2012 06:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
If we are talking in Freudian terms, we have to take his definition:

The Id is defined this way:

"The id is the unorganized part of the personality structure which contains the basic drives. The id acts according to the "pleasure principle", seeking to avoid pain or displeasure aroused by increases in instinctual tension.[2]

The id is unconscious by definition:

"It is the dark, inaccessible part of our personality, what little we know of it we have learned from our study of the dream-work and of the construction of neurotic symptoms, and most of that is of a negative character and can be described only as a contrast to the ego. We approach the id with analogies: we call it a chaos, a cauldron full of seething excitations... It is filled with energy reaching it from the instincts, but it has no organization, produces no collective will, but only a striving to bring about the satisfaction of the instinctual needs subject to the observance of the pleasure principle."[3]

In the id,

"contrary impulses exist side by side, without cancelling each other out....There is nothing in the id that could be compared with negation...nothing in the id which corresponds to the idea of time."[4]

Developmentally, the id precedes the ego; i.e. the psychic apparatus begins, at birth, as an undifferentiated id, part of which then develops into a structured ego. Thus, the id:

"...contains everything that is inherited, that is present at birth, is laid down in the constitution — above all, therefore, the instincts, which originate from the somatic organization, and which find a first psychical expression here (in the id) in forms unknown to us." [5]"

Ego:

"The ego acts according to the reality principle; i.e. it seeks to please the id’s drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bringing grief.[12] At the same time, Freud concedes that as the ego "attempts to mediate between id and reality, it is often obliged to cloak the Ucs. [Unconscious] commands of the id with its own Pcs. [Preconscious] rationalizations, to conceal the id's conflicts with reality, to profess...to be taking notice of reality even when the id has remained rigid and unyielding."[13]

The ego comprises of the organized part of the personality structure that includes defensive, perceptual, intellectual-cognitive, and executive functions. Conscious awareness resides in the ego, although not all of the operations of the ego are conscious. Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defence, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory.[1] The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organise our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us.[1]"The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world ... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions ... in its relation to the id it is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces."[14]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

So the EGO in psychoanalytical terms may differ from your own individual definition of it (mostly I see it defined as Selfishness, and Egocentric/ narcistic behaviour, but this is not what the psychological term EGO contains).

---

posted January 15, 2012 10:33 AM            

Also, the difference between the moon and the IC is that moon is your primal instinct, and IC is where you feel at home.

Egg: My primal instinct (libra moon) is to be friendly with other people, but where I really feel at home (IC in sag) is with animals and nature!

I read on urbanmonk.net a good explaiment of Id, Ego and Superego:

posted January 15, 2012 04:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Moon is not a primal need,but emotional. Moon isn't instinct,as well.
We,sapiens sapientis,are exclusive to big emotions club. Therefore,emotions and instincts can not be in the same basket,instincts reflecting the animal in us,and emotions the human.

---