posted March 17, 2012 08:46 AM              

Anyway this is the article:

"Aspect Orbs: An Emergency Posting

Don’t panic. The reason that this is an emergency posting is that, quite simply, if I don’t explain this right here, right now, I may actually go a little mad. For this I am breaking the flow of the higher and lower octave articles: I apologize to those of you who have been waiting for the article on Neptune as the higher octave of Venus. It will be up shortly.

This post is prompted by students of mine, some of them quite advanced, asking me about what orbs I’m using for whatever chart we’ve been drawing up. Now, if you study with me for any length of time, you are going to learn that this is a silly question. However, I do understand that many have been taught that orbs are somehow absolute. When does it ‘kick in’ and when does it leave? The assumption being that the aspect exists suddenly, and then it doesn’t. I explain this time and again, even here on the site, but for some reason when it comes to orbs I seem to be speaking some obscure alien tongue picked up from my overly extensive and attentive Doctor Who watching. I’m here to put the orb issue in black and white (well, orange and black) again.

This question of orbs drives me crazy, because if you practice astrology with any depth, and observe it for any length of time, you realize that you cannot use an absolute orb ratio. There comes a time in chart interpretation where have to learn to start thinking about orbs in a more holistic way.

For example, we’re often taught that, in general, a five degree orb on either side is acceptable for the main aspects, with more allowance given for the lights. (I’m not going to argue about different aspect orbs for different aspects, although that also comes up.) This five degree option is a nice figure. I was taught this, just as I was taught that it was better to stick to a 3 degree orb for synastry. There is a sense to this because when aspects are this close, they are usually absolutely obvious. Of course, any aspect in this tight is going to manifest somehow, some day, it’s inevitable. If you stick to these rules, you will have some decent information to work from, and you will not be sticking your neck, or your astrological expertise, out. Alas, you will still be left with what is, basically, a list of aspects. All equal. One for all, all for one.

This is a great discipline, these hard and fast rules about orbs–for beginners. But it’s not going to help you when that whammy of a transit or progression smacks you (or your client) from out of the blue and you didn’t see it coming, because you weren’t counting that Pluto/Mars conjunction that was 7 degrees away from exact when the Sun transited over it, even though Pluto is a nodal ruler and one of the dispositors of the Sun, and Mars is ruling an angle, and Scorpio is rising in the progressed chart…

There is such a thing, in chart interpretation, called weighting–and it isn’t a formula or a calculation, only the eye of experience can judge it. And it doesn’t matter whether you’re dealing with natal charts or composites or draconic or coalescent charts, the same rules apply: how much influence does this planet have on this chart? This is the most important thing to judge when dealing with both natal charts and moving objects, and if you don’t get your head around it, quite frankly, you’ll never be good at astrology, because this is the meat of interpretation: knowing what matters a lot, and what matters less. Otherwise, we’re swimming around from aspect to aspect like a bunch of newbies, wondering which one to cling to.

Astrologers, good astrologers, are fond of saying ‘aspect trumps sign.’ This means that an aspect to a planet gives you more information than the sign it’s in–the sign tells you how the planet behaves, but the aspect tells you what influences its behaviour, and the house it’s in will tell you what area of life it will affect. Weighting will tell you which aspects are more likely to make themselves known, and this has less to do with orbs than it does with being able to determine how much influence a planet wields in a certain natal chart. Ever sit around waiting for a transit of Neptune or Pluto to do something devastating to you, only to realize that nothing much actually happened? This is because of two things: 1) (most importantly) the planets involved aren’t active in the progressed chart, and 2) the affecting planet wasn’t really that much of an influence in the natal. If you are born with the Moon conjunct Uranus and the Sun heavily influenced by Neptune, then transits and progressions to and from those planets (and others) will affect you deeply, but that Pluto transit you were living in dread of may tap you on the head and then disappear in a puff of smoke. Why? Because Pluto doesn’t have that much to do with you. He will have some affect on the planet and houses involved and affect your Scorpio tinged planets and houses, but he will not come and abduct you, the way he will a strong Plutonian. He’s just not that into you.

Strict orbs are good learning tools, but eventually we must throw that crutch away. Now of course, we can’t go overboard and turn overly generous and give 15 degree orbs to everything and watch meaning fly out the window (particularly when we’re doing synastries–don’t hide, I know who you are). I’m not suggesting this at all. What I am suggesting is learning what gives a greater priority and then understanding that all aspects are not alike.

Aspects are PHASAL. They fade into orb, become exact, and then they fade out of orb. It begins as a faint echo, peaks at a scream, and fades away into the distance. If a planet is very sensitive because it is heavily aspected in the chart, or because it has weight in the chart, a person is going to feel that aspect a lot sooner and feel its effects a lot later than a person/chart who is not sensitive to that planet. For that particular person, that sensitive planet is screaming a lot louder than other planets in the chart.

Sometimes a lot of planets are yelling out for us. Sometimes things are very quiet. In the quiet times, we will hear the not-so-loud planets more. I’ve seen little Mercury, when it’s an important natal planet, do extraordinary things. We expect the outer planets to have big voices, but sometimes they are very well behaved. It’s all relative to whatever else is happening in the chart.

Because it’s summer, and it’s hot here on the East Coast, and everyone of us would much rather be in or under the water somewhere instead of inside reading our screens, I’m going to start you off with a brief ‘cheat sheet’ of what to look for in terms of planetary weighting. It’s only a list of suggestions, and each chart will throw out its own issues, but it will give you a start.

Qualities That Increase a Planet’s Influence:

The Chart Ruler (Ruler of the Ascendant).

Any angle ruler.

Planets on angles in the natal.

The Ruler of Either Lunar Node.

The Dispositor of the Sun.

The planet that forms the most aspects to other planets. (You can narrow this by using the one that forms the most ptolemaic aspects.)

Planet ruling the Asc or Desc in the progressed chart.

Planet conjunct an angle in the progressed chart.

Planets conjunct the lights, natally. Any planet the progressed Sun conjuncts. (A three year influence.)

Any planet planet the progressed Moon conjuncts (A three month influence.)

Any planet that disposits a large or important stellium.

That’s it. Rant over. Now I’m going to put my feet in the pool and have a cold drink…"
http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/07/15/aspect-orbs-an-emergency-posting/


What are your important planets according to this list?

EDIT:
BTW you still won`t see me using an orb much greater than 5 degrees in synastry. (unless the planet is part of a stellium, in which most planets are "in" orb).

BUT this weighing of a planet is not simply a nice addition to astrological interpretation, it is a necessary condition imo.

posted March 17, 2012 09:19 AM              

1.The Chart Ruler (Ruler of the Ascendant).
Jupiter (11 Pisces)

2.Any angle ruler.
DESC-ruler: Mercury (25 Sag)
IC-ruler: Mars (5 Sag)
MC-ruler: Venus (6 Cap)

3.Planets on angles in the natal.
ASC 7 Sag:
Mars (5 Sag)
Neptune (10 Sag)

MC 5 Libra:
Pluto (9 Libra)

4.The Ruler of Either Lunar Node.
NN: Jupiter (11 Pisces)
SN: Mercury (25 Sag)

5.The Dispositor of the Sun.
Jupiter (11 Pisces)

6. The planet that forms the most aspects to other planets. (You can narrow this by using the one that forms the most ptolemaic aspects.):
using a 5 degree orb:

Venus (3 aspects)
Neptune (3 aspects)
Pluto (3 aspects)

assuming a 7 egree orb:
Venus (3 aspects)
Mars (3 aspects)
Jupiter (4 aspects)
Neptune (3 aspects)
Pluto (3 aspects)

so I go for Jupiter as most aspected:
Jupiter (11 Pisces)

7. Planet ruling the Asc or Desc in the progressed chart.
pr ASC: 8 Cap
ruler: Saturn (n: 17° Cancer; pr 14 Cancer)
pr DESC: 8 Cancer
ruler: Moon (n: 17 Aqua; pr 20 Gemini)

8.Planet conjunct an angle in the progressed chart.

pr ASC conjunct nVenus: 6 Cap

9.Planets conjunct the lights, natally. Any planet the progressed Sun conjuncts. (A three year influence.)

natally:
Sun conjunct Mercury (25 Sag)

10.Any planet planet the progressed Moon conjuncts (A three month influence.)
none

11.Any planet that disposits a large or important stellium.

Dispositor of my Sun, Mercury, Mars, Neptune, ASC:
Jupiter (11 Pisces).

I`d say Jupiter wins hands down, with Mercury as his second in command.

posted March 17, 2012 11:40 AM            

2.Any angle ruler.
DESC-ruler: Venus 6' Taurus
IC-ruler: Saturn 12' Scorpio
MC-ruler: Moon 2 Leo

3.Planets on angles in the natal.
ASC 0' Scorpio
Pluto 0' Scorpio

DSC 0' Taurus
Venus 6' Taurus
Mercury 26' Aries

MC 29' Cancer
Moon 2' Leo

4.The Ruler of Either Lunar Node.
NN: Mercury 26' Aries
SN: Jupiter 12' Capricorn

5.The Dispositor of the Sun.
Venus 6' Taurus

6. The planet that forms the most aspects to other planets. (You can narrow this by using the one that forms the most ptolemaic aspects.):
using a 5 degree orb:

Pluto 3 aspects
Sun 3 aspects

assuming a 7 degree orb:

Venus 5 aspects

so I go for Venus and Pluto as most aspected
Venus 6' Taurus
Pluto 0' Scorpio

7. Planet ruling the Asc or Desc in the progressed chart.
pr ASC: 26' Scorpio
ruler: Pluto n. 0' Scorpio p. 29 libra

pr DSC 26' Taurus
ruler: Venus n. 6' Taurus p. 10' gemini

8.Planet conjunct an angle in the progressed chart.

p. DSC 26' Taurus
Mercury n. 26' Aries p. 24' Taurus

9.Planets conjunct the lights, natally. Any planet the progressed Sun conjuncts. (A three year influence.)

p. Sun conjunct p. Venus

10.Any planet planet the progressed Moon conjuncts (A three month influence.)

none

posted March 17, 2012 12:10 PM            

I've only recently started using < 2 degree orbs in natal n synastry. I'm not sure if i m using correctly but so long as the aspect is <1 degree, i consider it exact but of course I have seen aspects in some synastry that is exact to the minute but that is rare...

I had my chart looked at by IQ and he said that i have a Regulus-Altantis conjunction, but my Altantis is in Virgo far fr leo 28.... I asked him how is that so n he said that based on the whole chart, that claim is valid....

posted March 17, 2012 12:26 PM              

"5 degree orb means nothing over 5 ryt? like 5'16? "
Technically yes. Though I am honest I counted my Venus-Jupiter sextile with 5°05.
It`s applying, which means that it came exact during my childhood. I tentatively think that applying aspects might be stronger than separating aspects because of this phasal relationship.
And it was just 5 minutes out of orb.

"major aspects only?"
conjunction-sextile-square-trine-opposition only
(yes, that means, NO quinkunx )

"venus is the dispositor of a taurus sun ryt?"
Yes.

posted March 17, 2012 12:37 PM            

the sun and neptune match my pluto then for ptolemic aspects. they are applying just within minutes.

i will double check tho.

edit: okay just the sun coz the other one within minutes was separating for neptune.

i can't decide bet venus or pluto for most aspected tho.

pluto has 3 ptolemic, venus only 2

BUT venus has 5 under 7 while pluto has only 4.

posted March 17, 2012 12:43 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilithpluto:
interesting article!
many thanks for sharing.

I've only recently started using < 2 degree orbs in natal n synastry. I'm not sure if i m using correctly but so long as the aspect is <1 degree, i consider it exact but of course I have seen aspects in some synastry that is exact to the minute but that is rare...

I had my chart looked at by IQ and he said that i have a Regulus-Altantis conjunction, but my Altantis is in Virgo far fr leo 28.... I asked him how is that so n he said that based on the whole chart, that claim is valid....

which makes a newbie like me confused..

---

I use 3' orbs in synastry but I know others use upto 5'

In natal I use
Sun/moon upto + or - 10'
All others squares,conj,opp + or - 8'
quincunx upto 3'
sextiles and trines + or - 6'

posted March 17, 2012 12:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaggiMC:
I use 3' orbs in synastry but I know others use upto 5'

In natal I use
Sun/moon upto + or - 10'
All others squares,conj,opp + or - 8'
quincunx upto 3'
sextiles and trines + or - 6'

---

Hi SaggiMC. What about composite charts? Are you using the same as with Synastry or as Natal?

posted March 17, 2012 12:49 PM            

Sun 16'59 3" Tau
Ven 6'21 46" Tau

separating..

would you count this as a conjunct?

posted March 17, 2012 01:41 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilithpluto:
I've only recently started using < 2 degree orbs in natal n synastry.

---

I use 2 degrees for asteroids.

For planets I am using categories of orbs:

00°-01° exact, insistently felt

01°-03° strong

03° - 05° still felt, but not as intensely as above

anything over 5° usually gets really faint.

posted March 17, 2012 01:43 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by s4nd:
i see i see!

the sun and neptune match my pluto then for ptolemic aspects. they are applying just within minutes.

i will double check tho.

edit: okay just the sun coz the other one within minutes was separating for neptune.

i can't decide bet venus or pluto for most aspected tho.

pluto has 3 ptolemic, venus only 2

BUT venus has 5 under 7 while pluto has only 4.

---

I think you should use them both. Have they an aspect to each other

posted March 17, 2012 01:45 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by s4nd:
how would 1 define a stellium?

---

posted March 17, 2012 01:47 PM            

pretty sure it is a battle bet pluto or venus agen in my chart.

posted March 17, 2012 02:22 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilithpluto:
Hi SaggiMC. What about composite charts? Are you using the same as with Synastry or as Natal?

Edited: based on your suggested orbs. My Juno @ Virgo 4'14 does conjunct my Jupiter @ Virgo 11'4.

---

posted March 17, 2012 02:24 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by s4nd:
saggimc,

Sun 16'59 3" Tau
Ven 6'21 46" Tau

separating..
[NOPE. technically it's 38" over 10']
would you count this as a conjunct?

also merc within 5 degrees of dsc, u personally count that in the 7th ryt?

---

yes I would count it in 7th. it's bit like standing in a doorway with your back to the room you are leaving and focused or forward movement into the next house along going anti clockwise. Do you feel it in 6th OR 7th??

posted March 17, 2012 02:26 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by s4nd:
how would 1 define a stellium?

---

3 or more planets in conjunctions, the closer tighter the better. I have a stellium in taurus
sun8'30"
venus 12'39"
mercury 18'48"

posted March 17, 2012 02:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaggiMC:
have you seen my thread on Juno in Basic forum?

---

posted March 17, 2012 02:42 PM            

Orbs are always tricky, especially in synastry/composite.

But even in the natal, it's not always that clear.

For example, in my own chart, my Pluto is 9° away from my Sun, but I don't feel it. I don't count it as a conjunction even though technically speaking, it could still be operating since it's an applying aspect.

posted March 17, 2012 02:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I use 2 degrees for asteroids.

For planets I am using categories of orbs:

00°-01° exact, insistently felt

01°-03° strong

03° - 05° still felt, but not as intensely as above

anything over 5° usually gets really faint.

---

Great description!! My Moon @ Aqu 23 trine my Venus @ Gem 23, which squares my Saturn @ Virgo 23. Moon square Uranus @ Sco 21.

posted March 17, 2012 02:48 PM              

now skyscript is a Traditional astrologers site and they use 13' for a conjunction
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects.html#ado