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Author Topic:   When is a Venus Conjunct Pluto not a Venus conjunct Pluto?
seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 05:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Confusing title I know but I have a question... and ok, a 'concern.'

I have an exact Venus/Pluto conjunction with my partner and a Venus/Pluto sextile the other way. We also have things like Sun trine Moon, Asc conjunct Asc, Eros conjunct Psyche DW, Venus Sq Mars, Venus conjunct Neptune, eros conjunct Venus, Sun conjunct SN etc.

Now ok obviously every chart must be taken on its own merits etc and a Venus/Pluto aspect alone does not a relationship make... but given Linda's own description of it in Relationship signs, it makes me wonder about those of us like my partner, who have this with a generation, and how they cope with what is such a strong draw.

His Venus will conjunct lots of my generation's Plutos given that it's early degrees of Libra. Taking one example, a female friend of his who is only about a month older than me has a Venus/Pluto DW conjunction with him (think it's fairly tight orbs) and some other 'intense' chemistry aspects such as Sun conjunct Mars and Eros conjunct Venus... but their suns don't aspect the other's moon and I can't see any other obvious 'romance' as opposed to 'sexual attraction' indicators.

So what I'm wondering is, is the VP conjunction when it's in a tight enough orb enough to overide everything else? Is it as potent alone as Linda described? If so.. oh blimey!!

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I donīt think a Venus-Pluto-conjunction alone is potent enough to override anything.

There are some question to check before you can put it into context in the synastry.

1) Is Venus/Pluto or Mars/Pluto reflected in one or both natals? Or progressed charts?

2) is the "Backbone" of synastry present:
- angle and anglerulers aspecting each other (esp. conjunct and opposition)
- inner planets, esp Sun and Moon to angles or angle rulers
- nodal axis aspecting angle, anglerulers, Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars and Saturn (conjunction esp, but squares seem also to work)
-...

3) how is the Venus-Pluto-conjunction intervowen in the chart? Is it part of a "closed circuit", including at least one personal planet on each sie?

example: her Venus conjunct his Pluto trine his Sun trine her Moon.

4) even if all that checks, aspects often lay dormant and need to be "woken up"-
check for progressions and transits triggering that Venus-Pluto-conjunction.
Also is there a Venus-Pluto-aspect in the progressed synastry or has it dissolved?

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seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Ceridwen - that's helped me to see it in much more perspective and greater detail.

I can't check absolutely everything you suggested because her birth time is approximate but at first glance it does look as though the there aren't any of the things you mentioned and the VP conjunction has changed to a sextile in progressed synastry. Obviously my own synastry with him has changed with progressions also and I do now see that so many factors have to be in place to cause a connection to be felt and/or acted upon.

I've never experienced the conjunction before now and I suppose I was half curious (half green eyed monster haha) to see how he must experience it with so many people and how it then manifests itself in every day life. The fact that there are so many variables and details to check between charts in order to determine why someone perhaps falls in love with one person and not another is quite an argument for the case that astrology isn't mere fantasy!

Thanks again for your help Ceridwen. Much appreciated... and the green eyed monster is back in the cage too which is nice!

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, let me give you an example.


Hugh Grant`s Venus is exactly conjunct my Pluto, and I couldnīt be more disinterested.


Personally I resonate with Venus/Pluto (cause of my Venus-Pluto-square in natal); but the guy is utterly un-plutonic, which might be one reason I am not interested in him a little bit (though I find him funny at times in movies).


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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by seeker3030:
and the green eyed monster is back in the cage too which is nice!

that`s good! There is a reason he picked YOU.


Anyway, the day-to-day level usually is determined by the interaction between personal planets including angles.

Also, just out of curiousity, do you vibe with Pluto natally?

Venus-Pluto-aspect? (could also be Mars-Pluto)
Venus in SCorpio/8th; Pluto in 7th?
ASC in Scorpio or Taurus?
ruler of ASC or DESC in Scorpio or 8th house? or conjunct Pluto?

Something like that?


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seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well it's Hugh Grant's loss I'm sure!

I don't actually have a natal Venus-Pluto aspect... my Venus is in Scorpio (24 degrees) and my Pluto is Libra 4 degrees. He doesn't either - his Venus is Libra 4 again and his Pluto is 22 Virgo... almost as though he was 'trying' for the natal conjunction but couldn't quite make it... he does rather adore himself though haha! ;D

My Mars is 7 Taurus so doesn't aspect my Venus although it's a sign opposition, and it doesn't aspect my Pluto. His is Leo 20 so it's way too wide for a natal Venus aspect and doesn't aspect his Pluto. If he's got his birth time correct (which I think he has now he's asked his mother) he's 3 degrees Leo and I'm 23 Cancer which gives us quite a few house overlaps and I believe his moon (my asc ruler) is in his own 8th house and opposite his Sun (his Asc ruler) so not sure whether that's significant.

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VenusDiSirius
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posted April 05, 2012 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Well, let me give you an example.


Hugh Grant`s Venus is exactly conjunct my Pluto, and I couldnīt be more disinterested.


You are so funny when you use a celebrity example

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by seeker3030:
Well it's Hugh Grant's loss I'm sure!


Definitely.

Well, can you post your and your boyfriend`s natal charts? I can work better with a visual.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
You are so funny when you use a celebrity example


Well, I can serve with a real life example as well.

My best friend`s Venus and Mars are conjunct my Pluto within 1-2 degrees, and yet I am not sexually attracted to her AT ALL.

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inthemisosoup
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posted April 05, 2012 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for inthemisosoup     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Well, I can serve with a real life example as well.

My best friend`s Venus and Mars are conjunct my Pluto within 1-2 degrees, and yet I am not sexually attracted to her AT ALL.


Yes, for sure, the aspect can manifest in so many ways depending. One of my best friends has a Venus/pluto conjunction which conjuncts my venus/pluto conjunction (we were born a month apart, around a period of Venus rX), and her mars is exactly conjunct my Ascendant. We obviously are not attracted to each other sexually, and there is not the heaviness of Venus-Pluto which I have experienced elsewhere (as well as natally). Maybe our V/P conjunct V/P cancels each other out. We are just very drawn together, have a deep love and admiration for each other. I think we are very similar in many ways, and have similar interests (but then again, we have merc-merc conjunct, too). So it is hard to draw exactly what our V/P double conjunction means, but I am pretty sure it manifests differently than your typical Venus/Pluto aspect. Hope that helps.

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seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Ceridwen,
Here are our natals. Thanks ever so much.

My natal

His natal

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by inthemisosoup:
and there is not the heaviness of Venus-Pluto which I have experienced elsewhere (as well as natally). We are just very drawn together, have a deep love and admiration for each other. I think we are very similar in many ways, and have similar interests


Could say the same about my best friend and me. She has Mercury/Venus/Mars/Pluto-conjunction natally, I have Venus - Pluto square and Mars-Pluto-sextile.
Our friendship certainly is deeper and more devoted than most friendships around us. As a matter of fact most people really donīt get it how we could have been friends for so long, especialyl with being quite different in many regards. But we are on the same page when it comes to many things, that others don`t even see. We place much importance on loyalty and honesty and depth and integrity for example.

Also Pluto rules my 11th and 12th house and Venus and Mars ruler her 11th and 12th house, so these are connected. I feel it helps to have the 11th house ruler conjunct the other`s 11th house ruler in friendships.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seeker,

your Scorpio-Venus makes you resonate with the Venus/Pluto-vibe.
plus your DESC-ruler squares Pluto exact.


for him it`s the DESC-ruler conjunct Pluto.
plus 8th house ruler conjuncts Venus.

BTW haven`t I seen these charts before? They seem so familiar.

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seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Doh! Yes I suppose I can be a tad 'Plutonian' now you come to mention it

Yes you have seen them before Ceridwen (in the Asteroid forum) but his birth time was wrong. This is correct as far as he can find out.

So just to clarify, would I be right in saying the fact that we have these asc/dec rulers in conjunctions and squares in our natal charts tends to 'amplify' the Venus-Pluto conjunction we share in synastry?

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Ceridwen
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posted April 05, 2012 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by seeker3030:

So just to clarify, would I be right in saying the fact that we have these asc/dec rulers in conjunctions and squares in our natal charts tends to 'amplify' the Venus-Pluto conjunction we share in synastry?


Yes.


Also, I knew I had seen them, something about Juno-Jupiter comes to mind. lol


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VenusDiSirius
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posted April 05, 2012 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Well, I can serve with a real life example as well.

My best friend`s Venus and Mars are conjunct my Pluto within 1-2 degrees, and yet I am not sexually attracted to her AT ALL.


Heavens know celebrity examples are the best

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seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Also, I knew I had seen them, something about Juno-Jupiter comes to mind. lol

Haha yep and isn't it just playing itself out already!! ;D

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Belage
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posted April 05, 2012 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whenever I hear the generation conjunct argument I let out a big sigh.

The fact that a gazillion people will share the Pluto conjunction to your venus does NOT negate the fact that it is a powerful aspect when involved in a 1 on 1 relationship.

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seeker3030
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posted April 05, 2012 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The fact that a gazillion people will share the Pluto conjunction to your venus does NOT negate the fact that it is a powerful aspect when involved in a 1 on 1 relationship.

Ok well sorry to be boring and predictable haha! I just haven't experienced it before and therefore it's 'blowing my fur back' as my bf would say! ;D

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planet9
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posted April 06, 2012 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for planet9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 'Planetary Aspects and Transits' software at http://www.planetary-aspects.com/pat/pat.htm displays synastry charts, so I give the synastry for the persons mentioned above.

But first HER natal chart:

This shows a T-square and three yods.

Now HIS natal chart:

This shows two 3-stellia and two yods.

Now the SYNASTRY:

The most exact aspect is her Saturn (in Cancer) square his Venus (in Libra), 4' from exact. (That seems less than auspicious.)
The next most exact aspect is her Pluto (in Libra) conjunct his Venus (in Libra), 7' from exact. (Apparently the aspect which gave rise to this discussion.)
Then her Mercury (in Scorpio) trine his Moon (in Pisces), 11' from exact.
Then her Neptune (in Sagittarius) sextile his Venus (in Libra), 38' from exact.
Then her Venus (in Scorpio) conjunct his Neptune (in Scorpio), 59' from exact.

I'll leave it to those with greater astrological expertise to comment on what these aspects might mean for this relationship

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planet9
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posted April 06, 2012 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for planet9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The full synastry report is at http://www.planetary-aspects.com/pat/lg/synastry_report_1973_1968.png
This report contains only the aspect data, since the PAT software is intended as a computational tool and provides no interpretation (this is better done by humans).

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Belage
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posted April 06, 2012 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're not boring and predictable, seeker3030. It's just that this particular subject is one of my pet peeves. :-)

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Mystic Melody
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posted April 10, 2012 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mystic Melody     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seeker, my Venus in Libra is conjunct a generation of Pluto in Libra males. I feel it almost every time, however there is usually some other aspect that screws it up so we don't get close or we aren't that comfortable when we are close. I believe it is what it is and what is meant to be is meant to be. If you are meant to learn to trust YOUR connection and his words, there might be some planetary action simply to provide that lesson. If your lesson is to let go, or to discern the energy matches more clearly before committing your heart, then you will receive that lesson. If your lesson is to learn to love and accept that one man completely with the understanding that because he is human he will be captured by these aspects just as you are when they occur in your energy field, then I say you are doing a great job. Hang in there!

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seeker3030
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posted April 10, 2012 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seeker3030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mystic thank you so much! Your words are a real comfort and just what I was looking to learn about those who have this connection with a generation. I've always wondered (long before I ever met this man) what that would feel like and I can understand how tough it might be to keep feeling that huge potential with so many people only for it not to come to fruition in most cases due to the other aspects - many of us only feel it a few times in our lives and in a way, I suppose that's a blessing.

As far as this connection is concerned... well I think we're done. There's a tremendous imbalance at the moment in terms of who is actually making the effort. He told me he really does love me at the weekend and wants to be with me... and this was after more flirtatiousness with others. So I said 'then please stop looking elsewhere because I really do love you.' We've now reached a sort of an impasse it would seem - sniping at each other on FB and now silence. So maybe that's as far as this could go. All the same I'm glad I experienced it. I feel one of the lessons I need to work on is that 'green eyed monster' within. Hopefully I'll find some peace with it
Thanks again xx

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starmoon
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posted April 10, 2012 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starmoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Belage:
Whenever I hear the generation conjunct argument I let out a big sigh.

The fact that a gazillion people will share the Pluto conjunction to your venus does NOT negate the fact that it is a powerful aspect when involved in a 1 on 1 relationship.



exactly :-) for me, it just proves the point that the entire synastry/composite chart matters and not one individual aspect.

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