Posts: 868
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted April 12, 2012 12:17 PM            

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I am a mess right now.
Just got the message that I lost an old friend.
Apparently he killed himself by jumping in front of a train......
It's the second friend who commited suicide in the last two years and it's just too much.
I feel so guilty because he wanted to meet lately but I haven't had time.
I never thought he'd do that. Why would he do that?
I was looking at astrology for an explanation but I haven't got his birth time...
There must have been a bad transit. He wasn't depressed. He wasn't lonely. He had all of us loving him. I don't understand.

Here are his placments:

Sun in Libra
Moon in Gemini
Mercury in Libra
Venus in Libra
Mars in Gemini
Jupiter in Leo
Uranus, Neptune, Saturn in Capricorn
Pluto in Scorpio
Chiron in Cancer

Sun trine Moon
Sun conjunct Venus
Sun conjunct Mercury
Venus trine Mars
Saturn square sun
Neptun square sun

.......

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posted April 12, 2012 12:18 PM            

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I'm so sorry about your precious loss! Sorry I have no astrology expertise.

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posted April 12, 2012 12:21 PM            

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So sorry to hear this!!!

Can I ask a personal question...was he on medication? Sometimes these interfere with thinking.

The outer planets in Cap hitting on his Libra and Gemini planets do seem rough. On the surface, everything must've seemed fine, everything's trine and neat. But underlying that, much tension.

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From: Jupiter
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posted April 12, 2012 12:28 PM            

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May he rest in peace My sincere Condolences to you SH and this man's family and friends http://youtu.be/KCvjZvzqlHk

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posted April 12, 2012 12:37 PM            

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I'm so sorry for your loss. *hugs*

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posted April 12, 2012 12:41 PM            

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I'm sorry for your loss. When did this happen? Cafe astrology has a transit generator based just on DOB. I'm sure it will be pretty broad but maybe you could get some insight.

http://astro.cafeastrology.com/cgi-bin/astro/prev

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posted April 13, 2012 03:35 AM              

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Do you have the orbs for his natal placements? Either his Mars-Saturn or Mars-Pluto midpoint is probably in Virgo/Pisces. Maybe transiting Mars in Virgo conjuncted/opposed it.

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posted April 13, 2012 03:54 AM            

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If you want to give data or post the chart I will look at his progressions & solar arcs. I don't need the time just the general location of birth if you know it. If he was born around 10/8/90 like it seems, then there are markers for depression + a psychotic break.

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posted April 13, 2012 04:14 AM            

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.

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posted April 13, 2012 04:21 AM            

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I'm so sorry for your loss

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posted April 13, 2012 04:41 AM            

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So sorry for your loss, SmilingHeart.

Stay strong

Ps. I agree with Regardes.
Some things happen without us knowing why, but there is certainly a reason.

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From: Chicago, IL
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posted April 13, 2012 08:57 AM            

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I am so sorry for your loss. A close friend of mine also committed suicide early last month, and had previously been asking me to come visit her at law school. I hadn't really the money to travel out-of-state, so I kept putting it off. You can imagine how I felt when it happened. A helpful thing other friends keep reminding me of is that if I had managed to make a visit and she'd done it anyway, THEN I would be thinking, "Oh, I just didn't say the right thing/wasn't supportive enough" or ANYTHING. You'll easily find things to feel guilty about. It wasn't your fault.

I hope you find the strength to cope with this tragic loss.

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posted April 13, 2012 12:24 PM            

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Thank you all. You guys are too sweet.
I just stayed at home for a day and moped around and now I feel like I can look into this. Because I feel that I need to. He did leave a note but it explains nothing and I need to have an explanation. Even if it's just astrological. I need this to make sense.

@Regardes
Thanks, for your words. You are probably right. He must have hidden it pretty well. He was that charming, handsome, positive Libra guy - no one would have thought. Just to know that he was unhappy and we were around and didn't notice - is just horrible.

@Capriquarius and Lonake
I'll post his chart in my next post.

@extant_pisces
I am so sorry.
And I realize that it wasn't my fault but I feel guilty anyways. It is stupid but I can't help it. But thank you for sharing your story.

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posted April 13, 2012 12:26 PM            

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Here is the chart:

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From: nevada
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posted April 13, 2012 01:44 PM            

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From:
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posted April 13, 2012 04:32 PM            

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Do you have a city or state for his birth info.

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posted April 13, 2012 05:57 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by SmilingHeart:
Thank you all. You guys are too sweet.
I just stayed at home for a day and moped around and now I feel like I can look into this. Because I feel that I need to. He did leave a note but it explains nothing and I need to have an explanation. Even if it's just astrological. I need this to make sense.

@Regardes
Thanks, for your words. You are probably right. He must have hidden it pretty well. He was that charming, handsome, positive Libra guy - no one would have thought. Just to know that he was unhappy and we were around and didn't notice - is just horrible.

@Capriquarius and Lonake
I'll post his chart in my next post.

@extant_pisces
I am so sorry.
And I realize that it wasn't my fault but I feel guilty anyways. It is stupid but I can't help it. But thank you for sharing your story.

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It is horrible what happened, but it is not your fault.

Again, I really hope that you can find some peace in all of this. Am praying for your friend and his family right now as I type this.

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posted April 14, 2012 04:55 AM            

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Thank you Regardes.

@Lonake
I uploaded a new version with the location.

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posted April 14, 2012 04:56 AM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by lalalinda:

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From: Pretoria, Gauteng,South Africa
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posted April 14, 2012 05:34 AM            

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First off, I don't think that you should feel guilty at all. People who commit suicide usually have a lot underlying the surface before they act on a decision. Probably been pent up in there for years. One day with him wouldn't have given him enough "insight" to rid years of retained pain.

Secondly, no matter how much love and appreciation and love that person might have appeared to have on the outside, doesn't make the quality of their life(on the inside) that much more stable.People ask"Why kill yourself, when you have so much to live for?" when they really should be asking "what are you living for?". The latter question forces the brain to think of what it already appreciates about where it is and then you will get a real feel of what is going on mentally with the individual.

And now, on to the chart:

His Sun formed a close aspect to Saturn.

And yes, this can make a person's viewpoint on life a lot more cynical.Add to that, that his mercury and Sun made a square to Neptune. This means that problems are often exaggerated.

With Neptune, very little is tangible, it is all very subtle and underlying. When Mercury forms aspects with Neptune, it makes the perceptions, no matter how skewed, very much a part of our thinking process(and this is where all reasoning starts).

Saturn and Neptune also f** with Venus. More so Neptune than Saturn though, making things appear wonderful and great one minute(Neptune Venus square) and then degenerate towards just being awful, when "reality" hits (Saturn-Venus square).

Jupiter also forms a square with Pluto. An inner challenge(Pluto) can seem monumental(Jupiter) to where an individual feels like they can't deal. Especially when Mercury-Neptune doesn't provide tangible solutions.

It is interesting to note that Saturn was in retrograde a couple of days ago(in Libra).And if it made aspects with your friends' Sun and Moon, it would have had all sorts of complications for him.

Not to mention the Sun' s complex relationship with Saturn and Neptune. Add Mercury/Neptune and Venus/Saturn/Neptune in this complex cardinal dance and things can come to a head.

I am not saying that that is what actually occurred, I am just offering my perspective on how challenging that would have been for him.

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posted April 14, 2012 05:43 AM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by AscTaurus:
People who commit suicide usually have a lot underlying the surface before they act on a decision. Probably been pent up in there for years. One day with him wouldn't have given him enough "insight" to rid years of retained pain.

Secondly, no matter how much love and appreciation and love that person might have appeared to have on the outside, doesn't make the quality of their life(on the inside) that much more stable.People ask"Why kill yourself, when you have so much to live for?" when they really should be asking "what are you living for?". The latter question forces the brain to think of what it already appreciates about where it is and then you will get a real feel of what is going on mentally with the individual.

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Literally. Their mind is their own & as much as we like to think we know other people to the core the simple fact is that you are lucky to know even yourself that well.

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posted April 14, 2012 05:45 AM            

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OK I don't want to reiterate what AscTaurus commented on, so I'll list what was mentioned just so that I don't double it,

-n.Sun sq Saturn/Neptune
-n.Merc/Sun sq Neptune
-n.Venus sq Saturn/Neptune
-n.Jup sq Pluto
-t.Saturn in Libra had been aspecting Sun by conj earlier in the yr & Moon by trine

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I've marked off some points for reference,
I'm reading the chart just based on what he did as you've written & what I see in the charts,
so keep that in mind as you read as it's essentially a cold reading.

The yellow pts are involved in a grand cross, pluto as well but it is farther off. The points involved include Mars/Uranus which in my research I've found to coincide with these breaks. Often if it is a murder the person will have hardly any recollection of it, it is something in their past that their conscious mind does not want to acknowledge. With this grand cross, the main thing it says to me is the violent nature of the suicide, the anger that had been riled up & directed at the self, the urge to do it in public, to make a statement, and just the simple fact that he was not in his right mind at the time. If he had committed a murder instead, he would have a good case for an insanity plea, if you get my drift. Some people just break and there's no rhyme or reason. I'm just isolating the grand cross here. The natal has Mercury sq Uranus, 1 deg, on its own it's a marker for a rebellious attitude, but if you look at the signs Libra & Cap, they're centered on conforming & keeping the peace. So if you want to ask about why he did it that way, start with that square. There were changes that he wanted possibly to bring about in himself in the way he communicated to others, but might have felt repressed in some way, he couldn't speak out the way he wanted to..maybe he thought he would lose face in his social circle or in the face of society at large (both things libra & cap are v.concerned with). But still his mind keeps churning, he wants to break free of social rules that bind, to question authority, but he does not want to be alienated and this aspect can lead to that feeling so here he is in a mental bind. That's his natal square. His n.Mars is trine the Sun. He's used to his energy moving & a certain amount of social success (air) with not much effort. Sextile Jupiter in Leo, he has some big thoughts of who he should be, he's no chimp, he wants to be out there shining being praised, he wants the attention, the *approval* to feel good about himself. It's inconjunct Pluto/Neptune. To Pluto there is something he wants to win, badly, some fight, but he can't apply his energies in a direct manner. Mars in Gem is a lot of *mental* energy, his mind's moving, he's obsessing over these wins that would give him some status as a man, a feeling of power. To inconj Neptune in Cap he wants to build something of value, to cement a dream, but can't apply energy directly, his mind is scattered & he can't focus (again), he's sure that he wants something but then changes his mind, he gets something & then is not sure that he wants it any longer. Now keep that energy of n.Mars in mind when you see that it had solar arc'd to 5 Cancer, turning his n.Merc/Uranus sq into a tsquare. Mars/Mercury sq is angry with a lot of mental tension, all they want to do is just relax but it is just so hard, the energy keeps moving, their mind can't quiet down (brings in shades of n.Mars in Gemini). Mars/Uranus opp there is a need for change, a big one, it's urgent, there's impatience. There's already a marker for impatience w.the n.Merc/Uranus and the sa.Mars is just adding to this, bumping it up. He wants to do things his own way, to take a stand for something, he might feel like an outsider. Merc/Uranus sq is already a marker for feeling alienated, this new opp is another. Now add to that t.Uranus in Aries ("done with 'the man' - I will make my own revolution") to turn it into a grand cross. If you can, think of the mental tension he was under, the feeling of being an outsider, the need to break out and make a statement, and how hindered he was due to wanting so badly also to conform (the basic merc/uranus sq in libra/cap), to be respected, to shine. This is only 1 piece of the puzzle, and I haven't even fleshed it out completely. His chart is v.complex w.the other factors, but to me this grand cross alludes like i said to the violent and unusual nature of the death. It would take a while to go through the whole thing, but he really was under pressure and I think really was impatient & did not know what else to do. Other people born same day as him, I'm sure they're experiencing pressures as well. We have to factor in the home environment, any family mental health history, how well he knew his *real self* & could communicate that to others, etc. Many factors go into depression. But I don't see this grand cross related to depression *itself* -- there are other factors for that (mentioned by AscTaurus & others not mentioned at all). This grand cross to me is the *mental tension & unstable state* and a big part of why he chose that exact method. Also there's a correlation of Mercury & Gemini to public transportation.

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From: Surfing Kite. Seriously.
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posted April 14, 2012 07:00 AM            

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SmilingHeart,I am sorry you lost a friend.

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From: The Cusp of Love
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posted April 14, 2012 10:05 AM            

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Thanks Lonake for posting the charts.

I can't say whether these aspects denotes suicide, but here is what stands out to me.

1. Given what happened I would think his pMoon may have moved into Aries at time of death.

2. Interesting to see he had an applying pVenus conj pSun aspect. Was a breakup or an inability to connect with the opposite sex part of his decision?

3. His pMars returns to its natal position.

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posted April 15, 2012 02:50 PM            

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Thank you all for looking into this.
I needed to get away for a while from the interwebs to think about the issue. I've come to the conclusion that I cannot know what's driven him to this. And I need to stop obsessing about it.
Even though your interpretations are a great help and very insightful. Lonake, thanks for putting so much thought and work into this.
Alot of it rings true.
He was a person who always wanted to keep the peace and was afraid to lose face. I never knew that it kept him so much from expressing what he really wanted.
His goals weren't clear to him and he kept being really indecisive and uncertain about his future.
I guess he though about this for a long time and there would have been nothing that one could do about it because he wouldn't open up to anyone.
I told his family that many people were praying for them and his mother was moved by it. The poor woman has lost her only child. And what a beautiful and promising child it was.
I know I must go on with my life and I'll try by starting to think about other things again and going back to uni.
Thank you so much for your lovely insides again! If I could hug you all, I would.

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