|
Author
|
Topic: Saturn and karma in synastry: who owes who?
|
ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 211
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 10, 2012 09:51 AM
  
Saturn contacts in synastry are often described as an indebtedness from one person to the other. I assumed that it was the saturn person who had "a debt" towards the other person. Yet upon taking a closer look at some aspects I have with some people I feel took something from me, I realize there is often a tight saturn aspect with them being the saturn person. What have been your experiences with this? I was also wondering the same about asteroid karma and who does the payback in this case: the karma person or the other person? IP: Logged |
VenusDiSirius
Knowflake Posts: 3997
From: Surfing Kite. Seriously.
Registered: Aug 2010
|
posted August 10, 2012 10:10 AM
There are debts on both sides.IP: Logged |
ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 211
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 10, 2012 10:33 AM
But would it be the same kind of debts ?The saturn person in synastry is described as a restrictive, limitative influence to the other person. His duty is to teach the other a lesson and saturn lesson are not so easy, so it can take a lot of time (hence the glue effect). The other person is described as "the pupil", the one who has to learn and who has to stick to saturn to make sure he has fully understood and learned the lesson.
It is so easy to feel the negative effect of saturn from the other person point of view (especially when the sun/moon and venus are involved in a hard aspect with another's saturn). It can be very dampening.
I can see how the saturn person still has some sort of debt because he HAS to teach a lesson and can not escape it. So in the end , I am rather confused. I understand how both can feel somewhat forced to deal with the other but from my experience it has always been easier for the saturn person to detach herself. Which makes me think that from a past lives point of view, the saturn person was the one that was done wrong by the other and in this life, he/she teaches the other a lesson relating to that past issue. IP: Logged |
VenusDiSirius
Knowflake Posts: 3997
From: Surfing Kite. Seriously.
Registered: Aug 2010
|
posted August 10, 2012 11:30 AM
That's philosophical rather than astrological question,at this point - in the eyes of karma,all debts are the same.
While many like to pin down bad happenings to Saturn,for example Sat opposition Ven : you have How-can-a-lovely-Venus-be-harsh attitude. The fact is there is work on both sides and while it doesn't feel the same,it is the same debt.IP: Logged |
Thefish
Knowflake Posts: 178
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
|
posted August 10, 2012 12:08 PM
It depends on how easily/well one deals with saturnine energy and which sign it falls and what aspects are made.While we all have karmic debt I would argue that in synastry another person only reveals parts of your karmic debt and the ways that debt can be paid. Say for example you have saturn in virgo in the 6th house at lets say 15 degrees. By that placement we know that you have karmic debt/obligation to extreme order in your day to day activities as well as possiblities. Say for example your boss has mars at 15 deg in capricorn which falls in your tenth house giving an exact trine. His/her mars provides action to your 10th from your 6th house suggesting that your boss will help relieve your day to day/cow-orkers issues through their actions and it will be done in a capricornian way such as helping give you ambition through their actions such as holding seminars or even leading you to such a point through their requests/ job requirements. However, remember that the house that his/her mars falls under illuminates the subject he/she will help you. So in the same example your boss's mars falls in his/her second house. That would suggest that he/she would assist you through 2nd house matters meaning that they may teach you about ambition/drive/success as it relates to money matters and in doing so you learn how to ease part of your karmic debt as the lesson teaches you how to live better day to day or take care of day to day matters to increase wealth etc. In turn your boss has a saturn somewhere and chances are you will have some aspect to it or some relationship to it and ou will affect his/her saturn through this relationship. Let's your boss's Saturn is in Leo at 26 (in his 5th house) degrees and you have have Pluto at Scorpio at 25 degrees. (Scorpio is his ascendant as well as part of his 12th house.) Scorpio is the cusp of your eigth house. You will teach him about his 5th house karmic debt through your 8th house issues and he will internalize them as 12th house issues. However since it is a square it will be challenging for him. It could be that there may br some romantic issues from either side or issues about games/ children etc. that you will challenge him in very passioante/transformational manner that will reveal to him more about his twelfth house as well as the house where his pluto is deposited. It's all connected and the influence and stregnth of the aspects and how they fall in charts dictates how people emote and internalize actions/speech etc.
IP: Logged |
ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 211
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 11, 2012 09:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Thefish:
It depends on how easily/well one deals with saturnine energy and which sign it falls and what aspects are made.While we all have karmic debt I would argue that in synastry another person only reveals parts of your karmic debt and the ways that debt can be paid. Say for example you have saturn in virgo in the 6th house at lets say 15 degrees. By that placement we know that you have karmic debt/obligation to extreme order in your day to day activities as well as possiblities. Say for example your boss has mars at 15 deg in capricorn which falls in your tenth house giving an exact trine. His/her mars provides action to your 10th from your 6th house suggesting that your boss will help relieve your day to day/cow-orkers issues through their actions and it will be done in a capricornian way such as helping give you ambition through their actions such as holding seminars or even leading you to such a point through their requests/ job requirements. However, remember that the house that his/her mars falls under illuminates the subject he/she will help you. So in the same example your boss's mars falls in his/her second house. That would suggest that he/she would assist you through 2nd house matters meaning that they may teach you about ambition/drive/success as it relates to money matters and in doing so you learn how to ease part of your karmic debt as the lesson teaches you how to live better day to day or take care of day to day matters to increase wealth etc. In turn your boss has a saturn somewhere and chances are you will have some aspect to it or some relationship to it and ou will affect his/her saturn through this relationship. Let's your boss's Saturn is in Leo at 26 (in his 5th house) degrees and you have have Pluto at Scorpio at 25 degrees. (Scorpio is his ascendant as well as part of his 12th house.) Scorpio is the cusp of your eigth house. You will teach him about his 5th house karmic debt through your 8th house issues and he will internalize them as 12th house issues. However since it is a square it will be challenging for him. It could be that there may br some romantic issues from either side or issues about games/ children etc. that you will challenge him in very passioante/transformational manner that will reveal to him more about his twelfth house as well as the house where his pluto is deposited. It's all connected and the influence and stregnth of the aspects and how they fall in charts dictates how people emote and internalize actions/speech etc.
Thank you. This was a very in depth analysis of how saturn works in synastry. I hadn't kept in mind that saturn in a natal chart, by its house position, sign and the aspects it makes, stood for our own karmic debt. Actually it is way more complex than what I had read abut saturn synastry aspects. Both persons involved learn and both teach. I understand VenusDiSirius point now.
So, in the end, I guess using saturn aspects to identify who may have done the other wrong, or to pinpoint an indebtedness, doesn't apply. IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 2034
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
|
posted August 11, 2012 08:14 PM
I am not sure how it all goes, but you guys are probably right, it's a two- way street.The weird thing I've found is that the Saturn person is actually *less* involved than the planet person, unlike most descriptions say. The Saturn person has an easier time letting go and moving on and the planet person is (usually) the one left alone in tears. And I'm pretty sure now that Saturn/karma = doom.
IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 864
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted August 11, 2012 10:08 PM
I had an assistant who had Saturn conjunct my sun. What an experience!I liked her at first, but then when I started to realize that she was a compulsive liar and often took credit for my work behind my back, I tried to fire her, but my supervisor wouldn't let me, even after I garnered all the evidence for her misdeeds. She was my subordinate, but for some weird reason, she had the upper hand. I blame Saturn. I ended up resigning from the job, she was promoted and the company went out of business a year later. Obviously, I had some kind of karmic debt to repay her, not the other way around. But she created more karma for herself by her unethical behavior, but I don't ever want to see her again, not in this life or the next. IP: Logged |
curiouswoman
Knowflake Posts: 553
From: on earth
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 12, 2012 01:56 AM
please correct me if you feel i am wrong. but am I the only person as venus in a venus opposition saturn situation that feels that no matter how much you want to stop thinking about the other person, no matter how hard you try, somehow you just cannot go a month without at least seeing their face. IP: Logged |
scorpy_oh
Knowflake Posts: 248
From:
Registered: May 2012
|
posted August 12, 2012 03:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
The weird thing I've found is that the Saturn person is actually *less* involved than the planet person, unlike most descriptions say. The Saturn person has an easier time letting go and moving on and the planet person is (usually) the one left alone in tears.
i've found this to be true in my personal experiences. IP: Logged |
ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 211
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 12, 2012 09:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
The weird thing I've found is that the Saturn person is actually *less* involved than the planet person, unlike most descriptions say. The Saturn person has an easier time letting go and moving on and the planet person is (usually) the one left alone in tears.
This has also been my experience, especially when my sun, venus or moon was conjunct someone's saturn. This is because of these, that I actually came to wonder if there was a debt to repay as the planet person to the saturn person because it is definitely how it felt to me.
I was always the one reaching out and somehow the saturn person would just ignore all my efforts, though they were the ones coming to me in the first place.
And sure, this scenario isn't the one described by most websites who offer synastry aspects interpretations. Usually it is mostly described that the saturn person is the one holding on to the planet person. But to me it was just the complete opposite.
Oh and I can relate to how somehow you just can't get the person out of your mind. It's not even a matter of still having feelings or caring or whatever else, it is just that somehow you just can't forget that person and they always find a way to come back in your thoughts. At least to me that is how I experienced it. But maybe the fact that I exprienced things that way was just how things are supposed to be. I mean it is often said that the planet person experiences the saturn person as a dampening and disapproving influence, that they can have the feeling that the saturn person is being cold to them and indifferent. So maybe it is just a perceived feeling but in reality the saturn person feels differently (and maybe they actually DO care??)?
I have never been the saturn person in a hard tight aspect to someone's planets in a synastry that I can recall of. I was often saturn in a soft aspect (trine) (but the other person's saturn was also making a hard aspect to a personal planet of mine) and I would say that I was rather supportive of them, but well, I don't know if it's my saturn talking or my personal planet aspected by theirs.
IP: Logged |
curiouswoman
Knowflake Posts: 553
From: on earth
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 18, 2012 07:21 AM
but i heard venus square saturn in a person's chart indicates someone who falls in love with someone who is much younger or much older than them. that's the person that is best for them? is this accurate?IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 2034
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
|
posted August 18, 2012 02:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by curiouswoman:
but i heard venus square saturn in a person's chart indicates someone who falls in love with someone who is much younger or much older than them. that's the person that is best for them? is this accurate?
I would guess *older*, not younger.
I don't think anything is set in stone.
Just because someone falls in love with someone younger or older - as the chart says, doesn't mean they'll be happy or have a long-lasting relationship (and vice versa, if the partner is the same age, doesn't mean it's doomed).
IP: Logged |
JLyn ~
Newflake Posts: 11
From:
Registered: Aug 2012
|
posted August 18, 2012 04:45 PM
In my experience with Saturn if we had 2 or more Saturn connections yes the relationship was definitely hard to goodbye to. Even if it was dysfunctional. Opposites made us compromise in the end. Sextile and Trines just made us wanna stick together longer. Squares I wanted to jump over a bridge but knew he would still be there tomorrow somehow. Saturns mature, and it looks down on all other planets and says with slanted eyes "you got 1.5 seconds to get up and put your big girl/boy pants on or it's time out in the corner". IP: Logged |
curiouswoman
Knowflake Posts: 553
From: on earth
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted August 18, 2012 08:59 PM
but in studying charts of angelina and brad and yoko and john, they have hard venus saturn contacts and it seems that it fits the age difference theory.IP: Logged |
kama
Knowflake Posts: 84
From:
Registered: Jul 2010
|
posted August 19, 2012 05:20 AM
My experience is that it is the saturn person who is holding more to the planet person. though restrictive etc, the saturn person somehow holds the upper hand at the beginning, but as the relationship evolves, saturn cannot let the other person go and clinges very much and can't let go. I think it was Liz Greene who said that the saturn person can behave like a mad pluto when the planet person tries to leave.
kamaIP: Logged |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
