posted September 03, 2012 01:44 AM            

If so, how strong is the semisquare/sesisquare to midpoints, compared to conjunction or square?

posted September 03, 2012 03:45 AM            

I think they're minor period and that wouldn't change just because you're dealing with midpoints.

That aside, I'm starting to think that in general people need to pay a LOT more attention to midpoints than they do; most of my midpoints are in Virgo, conjunct my Venus and Vertex...which means they probably all square my Neptune.

posted September 03, 2012 04:17 AM            

My experience with semisquares / sesquisquares in general is that they refer to little details, and have a sharp, fast quality about them. They have 'zing' to them. Natally I’ve got a bunch of them in my chart and I can see how they work for me in this way…. Squares and oppositions are like big dramas, while the semi squares and sesquisquares are like quirky little happenings that may spark some interest but are ultimately not major issues…

posted September 03, 2012 04:27 AM            

So I think semisquares/ sesisquares would provide a bit of stimulation, a certain spark, but one that on its own would not become a wild fire (like the square could be)?
And also would not be like the glowing embers giving still some warmth (as I see the trine)?

Sticking with synastric aspects (not midpoints).
how do I transfer this difference to the aspects?

Like let`s say in one synastry there is A`s Jupiter square B`s Venus and in the other synastry A`s Jupiter semisquares B`s Venus?

I think however this would be interpreted, the meaning and interpreation could probably be transferred to midpoints.

And Gray, I totally agree. midpoints, especially if tight, (and conjunction, opposition or square) can be VERY illuminating.

my possibly tightest midpoint is Moon square Mercury/Pluto.

And that need for digging deep and analysing everything on a deep and psychological level, which has definite obsessive streaks, is nowwhere alluded to in my Mercury,w hich is in Sag conjunct Sun - and that`s it!

Actually my Sun-Mercury-conjunction is also conjunct Jupiter/Pluto-mp.

Anyway, what orbs do you use with midpoints?
I feel most comfortable with 1°, but lately noticed that even a 2 degree orb seems to hold with conjunctions.

another thing that I noticed about my own midpoints is how my Sun/Mars-midpoint in Sagittarius seems to relate a lot to my "ideal man"; it is also square Juno.
It seems to make sense seeing it is the combination of both masculine planets in my chart.

posted September 03, 2012 06:16 AM            

My preliminary list would include these:

FRIENDSHIP (mostly Jupiter-midpoints)
-------------------------------------
Sun/Jupiter
Moon/Jupiter
Mercury/Jupiter
Mercury/Venus (quite flirtative)
Jupiter/Node
- I am mainly looking for Jupiter-midpoints because Jupiter feels so damned good and supportive most of the time

INTIMACY (mostly Moon-midpoints)
--------------------------------
Moon/Sun
Moon/Venus
Moon/Jupiter
Moon/Pluto (VERY intense)
Moon/Node (emotional connections)

ROMANCE (mostly Venus-midpoints)
----------------------------------
Sun/Venus
Venus/Jupiter
Venus/Uranus*
Venus/Neptune
Venus/Node

* Venus/Uranus might feel more electric than romantic though, but it is not downright sexual either; it can be both I guess

SEXUAL ATTRACTION (mostly Mars-midpoints)
-----------------------------------------
Sun/Mars
Moon/Mars
Venus/Mars
Venus/Pluto*
Mars/Pluto

* Venus/Pluto has a lot of romantic and loving intensity, though it could go into the Romance-column as well; but Pluto`s sheer intensity usually gives a sexual vibe as well (this might even be true for Moon/pluto, though most of the time it seems that the emotional intensity is the main emphasis with this one).

FATED/KARMIC (Pluto, Node,Vertex)
---------------------------------
Saturn/Pluto (it`s a bit ouch, I admit)
Pluto/Node
Pluto/Vertex
Node/Vertex

These I found on the net, so I am going to quote the articles:

On the Saturn/Pluto - midpoint:
"My favorite midpoint is the Saturn/Pluto midpoint - I call it an "initiatory" midpoint, having to do with opening the door of the soul of the prepared aspirant to spiritual initiation, direct encounters with God/Spirit. Saturn/Pluto also seems to have a lot to do with good and bad karma, and karmic testing, especially in synastry. I recommend doing a mini or full retreat on the 3 days surrounding the transiting Sun conjunct the Saturn/Pluto midpoint: the day
of the exact conjunction, and one day on either side of the exact conjunction." http://www.internationalastrologers.com/midpoints_calculator_free_chart.htm

- for me these days are gathered around the 20th-21st august each year (as my Saturn/Pluto-mp is on 28°01 Leo), and this has always been a very insightful period of the year for me, though usually accompanied with a bit of painful revelations, and an awareness and subsequent breaking down of pre-fixed concepts/ ideas, even boundaries. It is not of the same intensity each year, but I definitely notice the pattern, especially if a New Moon or Full Moon is nearby.

the others:

"Pl/Vx - A deeply transformative/destructive, obsessive encounter. Possible cruelty, or emotional manipulation. Karmic.

Node/Vx - Similar to the above, but without the manipulative element. A feeling of having known each other before. Inescapable associations. Fateful unions." http://erosastrology.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=syn&action=display&thread=499

posted September 03, 2012 09:01 AM            

Love the categorization on your midpoints list.

It gives me something to explore next time I get nosey about someone. Also, I think you made a good point about Sun/Mars = Ideal Man, and so then Moon/Venus = Ideal Women. You’ve given me something to think about with this.

In astrology there are sooooo many ways to connect with our ‘ideal’ images concerning the sexes…. But it does seem that each one has a certain special flavor to offer… And each time we meet someone who lights up one of these, they awaken feelings in us that relate to that part of what our ideal is.

I look at the planets, I look at secondary houses, and certain asteroids…. Now I think I’ll be keeping my eye on Sun/Mars and Moon/Venus for what they add to this.

For images of women in a Man’s chart… The Moon is the vulnerable girl a guy wants to protect, Venus is the fair beauty the he goes wild for, Neptune is ethereal glamour ideal that enchants him… And if the Lilith does say something about a guys taste in women, it probably relates to what type of girl is like a secret guilty pleasure for him… Bewitching but dangerous or unattainable somehow. (I’ve recently been taking an interest in The Black Moon Lilith, this is from Ann7’s thread). I check all of these by sign, house and aspect.

Then I guess I’d look at his Moon/Venus midpoint.

For images of men in a Women’s chart… The Sun is the charismatic guy she adores and respects, Mars is the hot, sexy young suitor that turns her on, and Uranus is brilliant, unpredictable male glamour ideal that fascinates her. Again, I check all these by sign, house and aspect.

Then I guess look at Mars/Sun midpoint.

Next…

Another thing I look at for men’s attraction (For romantic attractions specifically) is the house related to Venus’ sign (secondary). You could do this for the Moon, Neptune and Lilith also, but Venus one seems to be highly potent… Venus is the beautiful young maiden, she is ripe for courtship, and the ideal sweetheart and girlfriend… Whereas the Moon is sometimes just about Mom, and Neptune sometimes just refers to abstract fantasy… Because of this I think Venus has a strong ‘echo’ thought out a guys chart, in terms of romantic connections.

Just like Venus for men, Mars for women has an especially strong echo through a women’s chart in a romantic sense. Sometimes the Sun is just about Dad, and Uranus is about just abstract intellectual concepts… Whereas Mars is the vibrant passionate young man, who is the aggressor in courtship, and whose raw physical energy is major turn on for a women. To see more details on this image of men in a women’s chart I look at the house related to Mars’s sign (secondary).

The other gender planets are worth checking through secondary houses for curiosity’s sake (And probably do have a lot to say)… But I have noticed the Venus and Mars are the most potent in secondary houses for romance, probably because they refer specifically to a young man and women in love, during the courtship phase.

And finally…

In terms of asteroids I’ve noticed that Juno, Eros and Psyche seem to say something about our taste in romantic partners… They add to the style and vibe we want to experience from them. Even though these asteroids can be gendered, they all seem to work for attraction in synastry regardless of who is the male and who is the female. However Juno and Psyche do have something of an affinity with women… While Eros has an affinity with men… Juno though is a bit tricky, yes she has an affinity with women, but she also seems to refer to what we need from a ‘spouse’ in general for both men and women.

Of course all of this has to do with images the of Men and Women in our psyche that we resonate with, who we actually choose is definitely more of a ‘5th,7th and 8th house symbolism, and house ruler synastry' thing. The Vertex Axis seems to say a lot about that as well.

posted September 03, 2012 01:52 PM            

"Love the categorization on your midpoints list."
I am happy you do.

"Also, I think you made a good point about Sun/Mars = Ideal Man, and so then Moon/Venus = Ideal Women. You’ve given me something to think about with this."
Since you so often give me stuff to think about, I think it`s only fair. Personally I LOVE having new stuff to think about.

AS for Sun/Mars-mp, there was a funny thing. There`s one famous guy and the way he presents his personality (of course I can only see what he projects, in interviews etc, right?), when I saw and heard him in his first interviews, I was sitting there with my mouth open (yes he is handsome, but that was not the reason), and I later said to a friend of mine: "You know, it`s almost as if someone took the ideal man from inside of me and made him manifest in reality, and he was the result. He`s how I would invent a man."
I did refer to his projected personality of course.

Later it turned out that his Sun is conjunct my Sun/Mars-mp exactly. Actually his Sun-Neptune-conjunction is conjunct my Sun/Mars-mp (I think the Neptune heightens the idealization in this case - and of course I mentioned it so you know now whom I am talking about without me having to say his name. lol)
And I need to emphasized that I am NOT talking about him being sexy or some kind of physical appeal, curiously this is not what really got my attention, but the way he talks, what he is talking about, how he is thinking, all these Mercurial things my Gemini DESC lives for.

"In astrology there are sooooo many ways to connect with our ‘ideal’ images concerning the sexes…."
Definitely.

"Now I think I’ll be keeping my eye on Sun/Mars and Moon/Venus for what they add to this."
In my case, these emphasize my natal Sun and Venus, so it is already there in my chart anyway. Sun/Mars-mp on 16 Sagittarius, Moon/Venus-mp on 26 Capricorn (semisquare Neptune as well as Jupiter).

I also was wondering about something.
Let`s stick with my Moon/Venus-mp; usually I`d say that the other person`s planet is triggering the combination of the midpointing planets in my psyche, in this case tender affection.
It can be extremely onesided.

BUT I was thinking now, if a guy`s Venus was conjunct my Moon/Venus-mp, couldn´t it also denote that he has a liking (his Venus) for my general feminity (Moon/Venus as the general image of my feminity, maybe more an ideal than a physical manifestation though)?

"and Uranus is brilliant, unpredictable male glamour ideal that fascinates her."
Interesting. Can you elaborate why you are using Uranus here?

PErsonally I have always seen Pluto as Neptune`s counterpart, as Neptune is the higher octave of Venus and Pluto the higher octave of Mars.

Yet, I probably wouldn´t really use these outers in this sense, as I think they are too trans-personal. They might describe though the gender-ideals of a whole generation, maybe?

"But I have noticed the Venus and Mars are the most potent in secondary houses for romance"
I agree with that.

Just to refresh my memory.

So my Mars is in Sagittarius, and looking at my 9th house, I find Leo and intercepted Virgo there. So Leo and Virgo are my secondary "Mars", right?

While my Venus in Cappy relates to Libra in my 10th house?

Using the gentleman you had been doing the synastry chart for me for as a guinea pig, his Venus is in Capricorn; MC is in Sagittarius, so he would secondarily seek Sagittarius-energy to complement Cappy energy.
(well I must be his ideal woman then. )

His Mars is in Virgo, Leo in 6th house - and interestingly almost everyone mentions how much he comes acros as a Leo. He doesn´t have any planet i Leo (but his fire-Sun is right on the MC).

"In terms of asteroids I’ve noticed that Juno, Eros and Psyche seem to say something about our taste in romantic partners… "
Yes, definitely.

" ‘5th,7th and 8th house symbolism, and house ruler synastry' thing."
Yes, and to me it makes perfect sense, considering that he houses "anchor" the chart in time and space, bringing the energy into manifestation.

" The Vertex Axis seems to say a lot about that as well."
The astrologer Kevin Burk wrote about the VErtex recently.

"On a conscious level, you’re attracted to partners who match the energy of your Descendant. But on an unconscious level, you’re drawn to partners who match the energy of your Vertex.

If the partners that you attract to your Descendant don’t meet your Safety or Validation Needs, you can figure that out pretty quickly and avoid those relationships.

However, it’s not so easy to do that with the Vertex.

Your Vertex relationships have an unavoidable pull to them. Even when you know they’re going to be nothing but trouble, you just can’t stop yourself. Call it destiny or fate or karma, there’s something about the Vertex that sucks you in, almost against your will.

When your Vertex partners don’t speak your Safety or Validation Need Language, these relationships are disastrous. Even when these partners do meet your needs, there’s an extra intensity to these relationships that makes them especially volatile.

Because the attraction factor in these relationships is unconscious, it’s important that you’re completely conscious of how these relationships affect the balance in your Safety and Validation Need Bank Accounts.

It can be fun to play with fire — as long as you know how to avoid getting burned."

I am not sure how unconscious Vertex really is, but I can definitely attribute to the "pull/sucking in/sudden explosion of awareness" in terms of the VErtex.
AS a matter of fact this angles seems ALWAYS active when some "turning-head-and-life" event takes place in my life.
And don`t get me started on that guinea-pig-guy , who has his Venus on my Antivertex and his Pluto exactly squaring my Vertex/Eros/far Sun/Moon-mp- conjunction!

It means that I am getting bombarded with the energy of that Venus-Pluto-square of his, which for him seems to be relationship-based, as Pluto is in 7th house and rules the 8th, while VEnus rules the intercepted 7th house and is in 11th house.
My Vertex falls into my 8th house - so go figure. Poor me!

"Anyway, sorry about the tangent."
As you may have noticed I am totally prone to those as well.

posted September 04, 2012 06:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

AS for Sun/Mars-mp, there was a funny thing. There`s one famous guy and the way he presents his personality (of course I can only see what he projects, in interviews etc, right?), when I saw and heard him in his first interviews, I was sitting there with my mouth open (yes he is handsome, but that was not the reason), and I later said to a friend of mine: "You know, it`s almost as if someone took the ideal man from inside of me and made him manifest in reality, and he was the result. He`s how I would invent a man."
I did refer to his projected personality of course.

Later it turned out that his Sun is conjunct my Sun/Mars-mp exactly. Actually his Sun-Neptune-conjunction is conjunct my Sun/Mars-mp (I think the Neptune heightens the idealization in this case - and of course I mentioned it so you know now whom I am talking about without me having to say his name. lol)
And I need to emphasized that I am NOT talking about him being sexy or some kind of physical appeal, curiously this is not what really got my attention, but the way he talks, what he is talking about, how he is thinking, all these Mercurial things my Gemini DESC lives for.

---

I hear ya. I know to whom you refer and he is extremely hot, but also very idealistic… Being that he’s into animals and the environment and all. He’s a celeb crush on mine too.

Funnily enough, I met him in person before I knew who he was… I worked in a store he shopped at, and while I noticed that he was good looking I didn’t think much about it. One day he came up to me at work and complimented me with a huge grin on his on his face, you know, like he expected a big reaction… Now this was about 7 years ago when he was on Lost, only I didn’t watch that much TV at the time so I didn’t realize what was up… Anyway, for some reason I just froze and stared at him, cause he was acting different then previous times I’d seen him and I didn’t get why… Lost had just come out that point and he was starting to get recognized… He handled my blank look very well and just kind of shrugged it off good naturedly. Afterwards a co-worker went past me and whispered “psssst, that’s the guy from Lost”, and everything clicked together in my mind… Anyway, I thought it was super cute how he handled my lack of recognition. I like when guys are a good sport when they get a weird and or unexpected reaction form a girl. He’s got a lot of personal charm for sure. Of course after that I did start watching the show, because I thought if a gorgeous guy from TV is gonna flirt on me I might as well see what he’s about. This is probably one of the biggest encounters I’ve ever had with a celeb so please excuse the ramble.

It’s been years now but I still enjoy him on screen. No one could have played Damon better then him. He projects just the right mix of charisma and torment for that character. VD is kind of a silly teenage type show in some ways but it’s my guilty pleasure, I’ll admit it. Plus I like him with Nina Dobrev. That being said, I think it’s important not to over idealize folks, or over inflate their importance for yourself personally just because they are especially attractive or charming or whatever… Sometimes synastry is meaningful, but other times it’s just like random chemistry… His Mars conjuncts my Venus, his Venus squares my Mars, and he’s a Sag/Aries type, so I find him appealing… But I’m sure there are millions of other women out there that have similar synastry with him that also think he’s interesting and hot and such… It is what it is.

In general whenever I get a celeb crush, or even if I just admire them or like their style… I treat it as an astrological study… It’s fun to get a hold of their chart and to try and figure out why they have an appeal to me in the first place. Also do the same thing with celeb couples, cause they’re so easy to find out about, I just love to compare synastry so that I can understand what pulls them together. This is especially fun if there are birth times available. I do the same thing with the real life couples I know too. I try to get hold of their birthdays so I can study what pulled them together on an astrological level. I freaking love stuff like that… It’s one of my favorite things to do.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"In astrology there are sooooo many ways to connect with our ‘ideal’ images concerning the sexes…."
Definitely.

"Now I think I’ll be keeping my eye on Sun/Mars and Moon/Venus for what they add to this."
In my case, these emphasize my natal Sun and Venus, so it is already there in my chart anyway. Sun/Mars-mp on 16 Sagittarius, Moon/Venus-mp on 26 Capricorn (semisquare Neptune as well as Jupiter).

I also was wondering about something.
Let`s stick with my Moon/Venus-mp; usually I`d say that the other person`s planet is triggering the combination of the midpointing planets in my psyche, in this case tender affection.
It can be extremely onesided.

BUT I was thinking now, if a guy`s Venus was conjunct my Moon/Venus-mp, couldn´t it also denote that he has a liking (his Venus) for my general feminity (Moon/Venus as the general image of my feminity, maybe more an ideal than a physical manifestation though)?

---

To me it makes total sense that the aspect could manifest in this way.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"and Uranus is brilliant, unpredictable male glamour ideal that fascinates her."
Interesting. Can you elaborate why you are using Uranus here?

PErsonally I have always seen Pluto as Neptune`s counterpart, as Neptune is the higher octave of Venus and Pluto the higher octave of Mars.

Yet, I probably wouldn´t really use these outers in this sense, as I think they are too trans-personal. They might describe though the gender-ideals of a whole generation, maybe?

---

To elaborate, I see Neptune and Uranus as a male/female pair, just like the Sun and the Moon, and Mars and Venus. And yeah, they seem to describe the gender ideals related to glamour for a whole generation… What type of men or women are prominent in the popular culture on a fantasy level… Interestingly, the 11th house (Uranus’ natural domain) also rules public awareness, and the 12th house (Neptune’s natural domain) also rules fantasy. Images of men as the wild rebel or unpredictable genius are extremely popular in pop culture (the James Dean type… He‘s an Aqua), and so are images of women as the glamorous feminine mystery or the ethereal dream girl (the Marilyn Monroe type… She had Neptune in Leo in the 1st). The placements of Uranus and Neptune in our natal charts respectively show our personal images of masculinity and feminity in an over the top glamorous way… For our generation that’s Scorpio for men and Sagittarius for women.

Pluto, on the other hand seems more gender neutral then Uranus (which is distinctly masculine to me). If Neptune is the female, and Uranus is the male, then Pluto is the connection itself between them…. Pluto rules the intimacy that can exist between the sexes, the power balance between them, what they share when they pool their resources, and the actual sex itself… If men are shown by Sun/Mars/Uranus and women are shown by Moon/Venus/Neptune… Then Pluto is the joining of the two. On a symbolic level Pluto represents the composite chart, or what happens when two natal charts combine to form a ‘relationship’ which is almost like a third entity itself. I guess my point is I don’t see Pluto as male or female so much as I see it as representing what happens during the union of male and female. Using another analogy, if the 7th house is where we officially meet face to face with the partner, the 8th house (Pluto’s natural domain) is what happens when we combine and deal with each other’s personal ‘baggage’ from within the relationship.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"But I have noticed the Venus and Mars are the most potent in secondary houses for romance"
I agree with that.

Just to refresh my memory.

So my Mars is in Sagittarius, and looking at my 9th house, I find Leo and intercepted Virgo there. So Leo and Virgo are my secondary "Mars", right?

While my Venus in Cappy relates to Libra in my 10th house?

Using the gentleman you had been doing the synastry chart for me for as a guinea pig, his Venus is in Capricorn; MC is in Sagittarius, so he would secondarily seek Sagittarius-energy to complement Cappy energy.
(well I must be his ideal woman then. )

His Mars is in Virgo, Leo in 6th house - and interestingly almost everyone mentions how much he comes acros as a Leo. He doesn´t have any planet i Leo (but his fire-Sun is right on the MC).

---

Yes, that’s the way I look at it. True, men could look at their Mars house, and women could look at their Venus house for more info how they express themselves.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"In terms of asteroids I’ve noticed that Juno, Eros and Psyche seem to say something about our taste in romantic partners… "
Yes, definitely.

" ‘5th,7th and 8th house symbolism, and house ruler synastry' thing."
Yes, and to me it makes perfect sense, considering that he houses "anchor" the chart in time and space, bringing the energy into manifestation.

" The Vertex Axis seems to say a lot about that as well."
The astrologer Kevin Burk wrote about the VErtex recently.

"On a conscious level, you’re attracted to partners who match the energy of your Descendant. But on an unconscious level, you’re drawn to partners who match the energy of your Vertex.

If the partners that you attract to your Descendant don’t meet your Safety or Validation Needs, you can figure that out pretty quickly and avoid those relationships.

However, it’s not so easy to do that with the Vertex.

Your Vertex relationships have an unavoidable pull to them. Even when you know they’re going to be nothing but trouble, you just can’t stop yourself. Call it destiny or fate or karma, there’s something about the Vertex that sucks you in, almost against your will.

When your Vertex partners don’t speak your Safety or Validation Need Language, these relationships are disastrous. Even when these partners do meet your needs, there’s an extra intensity to these relationships that makes them especially volatile.

Because the attraction factor in these relationships is unconscious, it’s important that you’re completely conscious of how these relationships affect the balance in your Safety and Validation Need Bank Accounts.

It can be fun to play with fire — as long as you know how to avoid getting burned."

I am not sure how unconscious Vertex really is, but I can definitely attribute to the "pull/sucking in/sudden explosion of awareness" in terms of the VErtex.
AS a matter of fact this angles seems ALWAYS active when some "turning-head-and-life" event takes place in my life.
And don`t get me started on that guinea-pig-guy , who has his Venus on my Antivertex and his Pluto exactly squaring my Vertex/Eros/far Sun/Moon-mp- conjunction!

It means that I am getting bombarded with the energy of that Venus-Pluto-square of his, which for him seems to be relationship-based, as Pluto is in 7th house and rules the 8th, while VEnus rules the intercepted 7th house and is in 11th house.
My Vertex falls into my 8th house - so go figure. Poor me!

"Anyway, sorry about the tangent."
As you may have noticed I am totally prone to those as well.

---

posted September 04, 2012 06:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lotis White:
Hi there Ceri,

My experience with semisquares / sesquisquares in general is that they refer to little details, and have a sharp, fast quality about them. They have 'zing' to them. Natally I’ve got a bunch of them in my chart and I can see how they work for me in this way…. Squares and oppositions are like big dramas, while the semi squares and sesquisquares are like quirky little happenings that may spark some interest but are ultimately not major issues…

In this case I’m speaking from an ‘natal aspect’ point of view, but I’d assume they work in a similar way with midpoints… The planet aspecting the midpoint would probably ‘spark’ off the midpoint in question by bringing some interesting little details to light, or pointing out some concerns that need ‘fine tuneing’ as opposed to a complete overhaul…. I’ve also found that these aspects refer to trivia, and curious little bits of information. Uranus, which rules my 3rd house cusp makes these aspects to both Venus and Jupiter in my chart, and I feel like I’m constantly stumbling across curious little tid bits of information. Especially in relation to astrology. My guess is the midpoint connections would work in the same way by illuminating curious details about a person, or in synastry, the relationship.

---

Great explanation Lotis!

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 04, 2012 08:13 PM            

Awesome thread btw. Loads of good astro info, and astro convo yall!!

I've bookmarked this page!