posted September 06, 2012 01:17 PM            

where as square seems to be a give and take aspect.
some examples:

with saturn square venus, i have major fear rejection issues, and inconsistent social awkwardness (its a bit elastic, given all my confident fire energy buried in there). i think rejection is a harsh thing for me when it happens, or so i perceive it harshly. and i realised that because of this, i too dish out rejection, and harshly or uncomfortably abrupt in style.

i realised more than ever that in a square aspect, it really does make a personal planet more like the other no matter the signs. many of us know that in general with strong aspects but today i was realising more than ever how it actually plays out, at least for me.

my venus out of fear, will behave saturnine to survive, or an alternate way to put it, is that my venus will use saturn instead of its self.

and i realise that my saturnine wants, tend to use my venus as a way of achieving its aims.

the same i realise for my ascendant square pluto.

i realised, when it comes to my rights, (leo asc) i can become very plutonian about it when upset over it in anyway. my hatred can be aroused by people who mess with my rights even slightly, im very sensitive to them. too much so. i think my Leo ascendant, uses pluto's intensity, etc to assert its self and expression.

and the give and take part?

well i believe my pluto (in scorpio)'s liking for power and control tends to use that leo-energy, that outgoing sunny charm (which can be very ingenue at times, almost psychopathic in nature).

i could be accused for looking into astrology and aspects too deeply, but i really see a give-and-take theme, the two energies, or planets in a square, do not harmoniously get along, they aren't a team, so i see it as a give-and-take, or even borrowing from each other.

please share how you think square aspects work, especially for you in your experience? how does the energy manifest in your life?

posted September 06, 2012 01:39 PM            

* Sun square Saturn EXACT - A harsh one. Many obstacles, but i learn to overcome them. It's a good aspect in a sense that it teaches me to go for the things i want to have and achieve. For example, Strombergs, the double olympic champion in BMX has this aspect pretty tight, too.

* Sun square Neptune - illusions, fairytales, miracles.. i love this one!

* Mercury square Saturn - 6 degrees, not so strong, i feel it sometimes, but mostly i can talk and talk a lot if i want to. And no problems in studies, i've always been a smart kid since my childhood, now i'm going for my masters degree and it's cool.

* Mercury square Neptune - i also like this one, i have really good imagination, and sometimes it seems like i can read other people's minds.

* Venus square Saturn - 5 degrees, i don't feel it always, but it is present and i do have problems with letting people know that they matter to me, that i like them. I don't let them into my heart easily because of the fear to loose them.

* Venus square Neptune - i strive for the perfect mate, most significant - in soul sense. I don't have illusions that every guy i date is my soulmate, but there is a guy which i strongly believe is.

* Moon square Pluto - i don't know this. My emotions are deep and i've read that this one could indicate psychic powers, which i have. Maybe so. Moon in 12th house also.

posted September 06, 2012 01:40 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 06, 2012 02:13 PM            

quote:

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i realised more than ever that in a square aspect, it really does make a personal planet more like the other no matter the signs. many of us know that in general with strong aspects but today i was realising more than ever how it actually plays out, at least for me.

my venus out of fear, will behave saturnine to survive, or an alternate way to put it, is that my venus will use saturn instead of its self.

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I am not sure that in a square, Venus is able to USE Saturn. Venus can use Saturn in a trine, sextile, or even a conjunction, but in a square, what I have noticed is that the Venus is more likely to embody or express the negative qualities of Saturn, but not its positive ones.

It is in the so called easy aspects that you find the give and take. They can use each other harmoniously. In the square, you have two enemies, locked in battle. Each refusing to give in to the other, especially if they are in fixed signs.

posted September 06, 2012 02:21 PM            

i look at the square as almost like a drug dealer and a crack fiend. both have nothing in common in terms of the goals of their interaction (drug dealer = money, crack fiend = drug)

but they have to come together since they can't live with eachother or without?

anyway, i really disagree with you about aspects determining wether a planet can be used or not.

i think all main aspects use the planets involved, otherwise they wouldn't aspect.

a strong example is my mars sextile pluto, my mars is in virgo, and pluto definitely is flowing through the veins of the qualities in my virgo placement there.

to me, aspects just determine the behaviour of the interaction, not wether they will interact or utilise each other.

just what manner.

i almost behave like a scorpio ascendant in public, and i feel like my placements took on a costume of one another to gain their aims and expressions. i.e., i feel my pluto's energies lean towards leonine desires or passions.

i don't relate to that interpretation of the square at all though. i only feel like their differences cause eachother headaches. not inability from utilising eachother, very far from it.

do you feel this way about your squares? maybe it can Happen in square aspects if the native is choicefully neglecting a planet somehow.

for example, my venus square uranus, a headache here would be, i could lose out on socialising or getting something i wanted most, because my uranus had to express rebellious behaviour if someone rubbed me the wrong way.
or, my pluto doesn't get the needs of my leo energy in the asc square, i.e. the pride and care for what others impressions are of me.

these are headaches by squares, or frustrations for me.

a final example is back to the venus-saturn one, because my venus is behaving saturnine, i don't get to be as outgoing and sociable towards others as my venus libra would love to be. because saturn's insecurities are holding it back = headache.

p.s. i should know a lot about squares, i probably have the chart with the most squares on the board, which makes up a Grand square chart in mine.

posted September 06, 2012 02:33 PM            

Squares show the need to make compromises
while oppositions show the need to make a choice.

posted September 06, 2012 02:55 PM            

To go back to the example you give:

quote:

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a final example is back to the venus-saturn one, because my venus is behaving saturnine, i don't get to be as outgoing and sociable towards others as my venus libra would love to be. because saturn's insecurities are holding it back = headache.

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posted September 06, 2012 03:06 PM            

A person who has hard aspects is likely to manifest negative outcomes when dealing with the issues relating to the planets concerned because most people operate from a p.o.v of ego and fear when faced with challenges. This is likely to trigger a destructive/self-destructive reaction.

BUT when that same person becomes actively conscious and breaks away from their conditioned ego-reactions, they will find that they are capable of manifesting a powerfully positive response to the challenge posed by the square, accompanied by superior awareness and insight.

The necessity for a conscious response is not so necessary for a person with a soft aspect between those same planets, as the challenges (internal and external) are likely to be less, and in any event that individual tends to respond automatically without much introspection in a way that will lead to beneficial result. They don't have too think about it, they instinctively know how to work things out harmoniously.

To put it in simple terms - the "soft aspects" work out well without you really having to understand why; but when/if "hard aspects" work out well, you will find that the owner has done much inner work to develop depth of understanding and awareness beforehand to make this possible. This is why hard aspects are sometimes considered to be "better" as growth aspects than soft aspects. With a soft aspect you can function pretty well in life without challenging yourself; but with a hard aspect you can't function well UNLESS you grow and develop a lot of awareness, which is what gives the Hard Aspect owner the ultimate edge.

posted September 06, 2012 03:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Taineberry:

To put it in simple terms - the "soft aspects" work out well without you really having to understand why; but when/if "hard aspects" work out well, you will find that the owner has done much inner work to develop depth of understanding and awareness beforehand to make this possible. This is why hard aspects are sometimes considered to be "better" as growth aspects than soft aspects. With a soft aspect you can function pretty well in life without challenging yourself; but with a hard aspect you can't function well UNLESS you grow and develop a lot of awareness, which is what gives the Hard Aspect owner the ultimate edge.

Hope this helps.

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I agree.

The inner work and awareness are necessary in order to overcome this dilemna. In the case of the Venus square Saturn, the Venus would have to look at the feelings of rejection, figuring out what is real and what is not, the Venus person would have to work past the negativities and insecurities and build enough resilience, detachment and self-confidence to move ahead with its goals instead of feeling boxed in.

posted September 06, 2012 03:24 PM            

The square between the Moon and Mars does bring me difficulties in expressing frustration and anger. I tend to feel physically unwell when very angry or frustrated, to the point of feeling tense and anxious. I also tend to bottle up feelings sometimes, and then release them in a way that overhwelms me.

I'm not certain what the Moon square to Neptune would bring. I do have a Pisces Moon, and Neptune conj Asc, so perhaps the square heightens the escapism of Pisces? Not sure, all I know is that I'm a very Neptunian person and require solitary down time to reflect and feel in tune with myself.

posted September 06, 2012 03:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
That's okay you don't have to agree with my views on squares. Different astrologers have different views on many things. :-)

To go back to the example you give:

You seem to misunderstand my response. If a planet is using the negative quality of another planet, is that really using that planet? Imo, your Venus is not using Saturn properly. You already mentioned feelings of rejection and dishing out rejection. Using Saturn properly would make your Venus go out, but do so purposely, and making all meetings and encounters count toward a purpose. Your Venus would build relationships that matter and advance her materially or career wise. She would have a seriousness to her not typically found in Libra, and would perhaps approach relationships and people with a non-sensical mind and a What's in it for me? mindset. That imo, is the real positive use of Saturn. If one is made to feel rejected and less sociable, that's the use of the negative qualities. Or put in another way, a misuse.

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in your post, you said that only planets in trine or positive aspects can use each other. in this pos you are saying that they can but only negatively, which is also not true. but the probability of negative outlets of these energies is much higher. people with positive aspects can still have negative outlets. the only difference is, harmonious aspects are less conscious of their interaction, its so seamless and clockwork, it just works. whats their to notice besides the positive results? . i agree with the quote in your second post from the other member. square is likely more aware of the aspects consciously in the native, but still probably unaware at times of its own negativity, because its negativity is always justified in its own mind by experience.

so to summaris, i stand by that all aspects use each-others planes, thats what an aspect entails. wether its positive or negative depends on various things but the square is more prone to negative or aggressive outlets of the energies. i think you didnt explain what you was trying to say properly.

we got there in the end!