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Author Topic:   Popular Media's and Zodiac-Themed Fiction's Irritating Portrayal of Astrology
Pisces Adonis
Newflake

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From: Catholic Altair
Registered: Oct 2012

posted October 19, 2012 07:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pisces Adonis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing I'm ****** off with is how popular media revolving around the Zodiac almost always portray characters on the stereotypes of signs.Furthermore if the story (epic fail) attempts to use Astrology, they only use Sun Sign Astrology (IE Scorpio man and Pisces women have a Hollywood Romance in a TV show, Taurus are physically strong,etc).

This ****** me off as hell. Since there is so many examples that can be used and so little space, I'll just use a few.

One great example of how Zodiac-themed fiction and Popular Media inaccurately portrays Astrology is Pisces Aphrodite from Saint Seiya. Saint Seiya is an anime revolving around Knights who represent their constellations (which includes the Zodiac.Pisces Aphrodite is portrayed as an effeminate weakling who gets slaughtered so easily and fastest of the Zodiac Knight and shown as the weakest of them all in physical strength and willpower. While its true that Pisces Sun people tend to have very weak willpower and frail, this can easily be neutralized by other aspects of a person's chart such as their Rising Sign (Ascendant Sign) and their Lunar (Moon) sign. For example a Pisces with an Ascendant in Scorpio-especially one who finally started shaping up and maturing-would be one tough son of a *****. The Scorpio Rising Sign would do away with the weak and frail nature of Pisces and empower him with immense willpower thats frightening. Scorpio Rising people ae legendary for their immense willpower than enables them recuperative powers that allow you to recover from physical, mental or economic adversities that would destroy many others and force them into medication (insanity). In addition Scorpio Rising are famed for their great strength and physical stamina that grants them athleticism. A Pisces is no exception, and any Pisces born under Scorpio Rising would be the opposite of the stereotypical Pisces (assuming that Pisces has started maturing)-he would have exceptional willpower and would be anything but physically frail and effeminate in appearance and physical conditioning. This is not counting if he has other things in his chart that are known to grant strong willpower and determination such as a Moon in Capricorn and an Aries in Mercury.All the other Zodiac Knights (except the Aries Knight who acts the opposite of his sign) are also (irritatingly) portrayed based on Sun Sign stereotypes

Another great example of irritating portrayal of the Zodiac is Sailor Moon. Each Sailor Scouts have a sign representing them (except for Taurus). Many of the characters are portrayed seemingly based on their stereotypes of their Sun Signs (though its not as bad and exaggerrated as Saint Seiya's portrayal). Sailor Mercury (a Virgo) is portrayed as analytic like the stereotypical Virgo. Sailor Saturn (Capricorn) is portrayed as studious and mature like the Capricorn. Granted Sailor Moon adds far more variety of characters portrayal than most fictions revolving around the Zodiac theme such as Sailor Jupiter being as WTF strong and stubborn(and romantic!) as a Taurus despite being a Sagittarius.

I can go on and on about more examples from fiction's portrayal of zodiac such as James Bond (Scorpio) being as sexy and suave as the stereotypical Scorpio. But that would take up pages so the two above examples should illustrate my point. Astrologers, do any of you find popular media's portrayal-esp. works of fiction revolving around the Zodiac Signs such as Saint Seiya is very irritating and annoying?

Popular media-esp Zodiac Fiction-only ever refers to the Sun Signs and always ignore other (more important) stuff such as the Moon Signs and Rising Signs and Planetary placements!

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anonymidarkness
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posted October 19, 2012 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pisces Sun with Scorpio Rising here,your description of Pisces Sun with Scorpio Rising pumped me up

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Pisces Adonis
Newflake

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From: Catholic Altair
Registered: Oct 2012

posted October 19, 2012 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pisces Adonis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Pisces Sun with Scorpio Rising here,your description of Pisces Sun with Scorpio Rising pumped me up

I'm one too! Anyway the point I'm trying to make in the article is that popular media always portray characters in a stereotypical fashion going as far as physical portrayal!I especially hate how Pisces are always portrayed as feminine in appearance-especially the men.
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/335/7/d/pisces_aphrodite_by_the_last_silver_moon-d3412m2.jpg

While Leos are always portrayed as Muscular.
http://galeon.com/elcaballeroseiya/caballeros_de_oro/PO051aiolia2.jpg

Well in fact its the Ascendant that truly affects appearance among other things.

I know a Leo who's a nerdy waste in another forum.

GTG but yeah this will be a pretty active thread.

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Maelstrom
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posted October 19, 2012 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont know what this Saint Seiya is, never heard of it but it sounds like arse.


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enchantress299
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posted October 19, 2012 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for enchantress299     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well... I hate to say it, but I think the stereotypical portrayal is par for the course with regards to television/movies, and not just with zodiac signs. Women and minorities are often still terribly stereotyped in the media. When I see any of these stereotypes (particularly in comedies), I tend to think of it as 'lazy writing/film making,; because the vast majority of the time it isn't even funny or informed. Undoubtedly it's gotten better over time, but if the media can't stop even stereotyping the basic groups that make up our world, I sincerely doubt that they will stop stereotyping zodiac sun signs any time soon...

And that's never mind the fact that MOST people are completely unfamiliar with the basics of astrology anyway. Just the other week I was talking to a new acquaintance who said that "he didn't believe in that stuff." Normally I don't push the issue, but I decided to ask him what his sun sign was. He said he didn't know, but that he was told it was something about water/earth, and he trailed off... So I asked him when his birthday was, and he told me Dec 2nd. So he was a Sagittarius, which has absolutely no connection to earth/water signs. THAT is the big problem. Half the time when I ask someone their sign and they tell me what it is, they almost always pair it with the incorrect element AND meaning. So, I corrected him and gave him a very spot on mini-sun sign reading and he looked at me like I was from Mars, but then admitted that I was very accurate. lol.

So if laypeople don't get astrology, there's definitely very little doubt in my mind that people in showbiz are going to take the time to really lay out the non-stereotypes... It's much easier/lazier to use the stereotypes.

As a side story- it's funny that you mention Sailor Moon... Way back when I was in high school (and when anime was just becoming a fad), one of my friends gave me the Sailor Mars book because she said that I reminded her of Sailor Mars. I never cared for Sailor Moon as an anime (so I never watched it), but I read the book that she gave me. Indeed, I am much more like Sailor Mars than I am Sailor Mercury. However, perhaps that is because I express my Moon much more than my Sun (Virgo Sun, Aries Moon)... So she really wasn't too far off.

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Pisces Adonis
Newflake

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From: Catholic Altair
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posted October 19, 2012 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pisces Adonis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Maelstrom:
I dont know what this Saint Seiya is, never heard of it but it sounds like arse.


Its huge in South America, practically a phenomenon and the most popular Japanese animation in that region. Also huge in Western Europe (though it didn't do well in England with the heavily censored dub) and Indonesia. Without going to far, the plot revolves around warriors representing each constellations (Pegasus, Ophiuchus,etc) and these "Saints" fight for the present day reincarnation of Athena as she protects the world from Hades and the other Olympian gods.

The "Gold Saints" are practically the strongest of the Saints and they each represent the Zodiac signs in a stereotypical fashion.

I will admit Saint Seiya is where my interest in Astrology first sparked and I ******* loved the show as hell when I first entered its fandom. However delving into Astrology along with exposure to other more modern works of fiction (not just anime), my love for the series practically disappeared (though I might rewatch it this upcoming Winter for nostalgia).

If you love action stories with lots of fighting and rich lore, you might want to check it out because it really does appeal to the Shonen(Young Boy) fandom and I won't deny the lore of this fiction's universe brilliantly merges Greek mythology with martial arts, constellations, and (if you're not into Astrology just like I was when I first watched the series) the Zodiac-theme and even many more.

Anyone looking for deeper stories , move on and look for something else such as Yu Yu Hakusho and Rocky.Though I won't deny Saint Seiya lore is outsanding but other plot elements such as character development very poor.

Also if you're big into Greek Mythology avoid it. You'll be ****** off too with the inaccuracies as my first post shows XD (and it gets even Greek Mythology VERY WRONG as opposed to the Zodiac theme).


quote:
Originally posted by enchantress299:
As a side story- it's funny that you mention Sailor Moon... Way back when I was in high school (and when anime was just becoming a fad), one of my friends gave me the Sailor Mars book because she said that I reminded her of Sailor Mars. I never cared for Sailor Moon as an anime (so I never watched it), but I read the book that she gave me. Indeed, I am much more like Sailor Mars than I am Sailor Mercury. However, perhaps that is because I express my Moon much more than my Sun (Virgo Sun, Aries Moon)... So she really wasn't too far off.

Sailor Moon is one of those less over exaggerated examples as I mentioned in my first post. Indeed they added more variety than most stories revolving around the Zodiac.I just mentioned that because its the best example that I could think of ATM when I was writing this and I just finished SM Classic last Summer and will be watching the next part, R this Winter.

quote:
Originally posted by enchantress299:
Well... I hate to say it, but I think the stereotypical portrayal is par for the course with regards to television/movies, and not just with zodiac signs. Women and minorities are often still terribly stereotyped in the media. When I see any of these stereotypes (particularly in comedies), I tend to think of it as 'lazy writing/film making,; because the vast majority of the time it isn't even funny or informed. Undoubtedly it's gotten better over time, but if the media can't stop even stereotyping the basic groups that make up our world, I sincerely doubt that they will stop stereotyping zodiac sun signs any time soon...

Those just **** me off as well-esp. the "All Arabs are terrorists" and "Arabs=Muslim" among many (don't get me started I'll go off-topic very far).

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Pisces Adonis
Newflake

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From: Catholic Altair
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posted October 19, 2012 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pisces Adonis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Error Duplicate Post Delete.

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RedScorp
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posted October 20, 2012 01:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I'll try to be the voice of reasonnnn, and I'll make some points...

1. Astrology is deep and there's so much to it, that few people would actually understand it. The Sun sign is the easiest thing to know: if you're born between x date and x date, then you must be sign y. Simple, hm?

Going further than that would be forcing the average person to learn more of the mechanics. "Mercury sign? What the hell is a Mercury sign? What does it mean, how does it apply, where can I find it..." it's just too much.

There's a scene in this show called Supernatural, a character, Dean, says he's an Aquarius. That's cool because it's common knowledge to know what sign you are, and now some fans may think, wow, I'm an Aquarius too. He doesn't say he's an Aquarius with x Moon and x Mars square Pluto. That goes too far and the average person will think "whaaaat?"

2. Even then, astrology isn't more then "oh yeah I'm a Scorpio, cool tidbit, okay". If that! There's skeptical people out there who will say, "Mercury? As if a ball of rock is affecting how I think."

3. Now...I guess you may think, "if you're gonna do it, do it right" but...it's just a very general portrayal, they aren't going to shoot for some super accurate portrayal. I think Astrology would hardly be included at all if everyone who included it had to go on tangents with more advanced stuff such as Ascendant, house position of the Sun...

A Pisces sun can be strong-willed, aggressive, super social, whatever you want. But Pisces energy itself is generally dreamy, wistful, feeling, and all that Pisces, textbook goodness. And, that's what they'll probably shoot for if they intend to include astrology (which we know as Sun signs).

And now for my personal opinion: who cares. You know there's more too it, and that pretty much all the time it's just a side bit (not the focus), so what does it matter? Do you want to petition that future portrayals of astrology be accurate and informative? Good luck...

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Maelstrom
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From: London, England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted October 20, 2012 06:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by enchantress299:
[B]Well... I hate to say it, but I think the stereotypical portrayal is par for the course with regards to television/movies, and not just with zodiac signs. Women and minorities are often still terribly stereotyped in the media. When I see any of these stereotypes (particularly in comedies), I tend to think of it as 'lazy writing/film making,; because the vast majority of the time it isn't even funny or informed. Undoubtedly it's gotten better over time, but if the media can't stop even stereotyping the basic groups that make up our world, I sincerely doubt that they will stop stereotyping zodiac sun signs any time soon...

Absolutely right, I too agree with this.

@PiscesAdonis, I take it you're a Pisces sun too? I started a thread a while ago entitled "Powerful Pisces" I guess it was along the same lines but I was speaking about the portrayal of Piscean men and women in alot of popular astrology books (Sextrology by Starsky & Cox being one of them). Pisces will always have the "whimsical, wishy washy" tag attached to it and as Redscorp mentions people with less knowledge will immediately pick up on that (very) basic analogy and exploit it.

It annoys the hell out of me when I see my sign getting trashed for being supposedly "weak willed" or "prone to substance misuse". Nothing could be further from the truth in my case, and many other feb/March born people I know. Many times I have tried to turn my back on astrology as I found it so damaging to read that rubbish.

However I suppose it is all about seeing the bigger picture...

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RedScorp
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posted October 20, 2012 06:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
@PiscesAdonis, I take it you're a Pisces sun too?

I take it they're a Scorpio Rising too, as they went on a (rather long) diatribe concerning how great Scorpio Rising is.

But wait! Maelstrom! You're an Eighth House Sun (with Mercury and Mars there too)! You two can agree on another thing! Scorpio tenacity is a great gift, and a saving grace for the lowly arachnids.

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Maelstrom
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posted October 20, 2012 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedScorp:
I take it they're a Scorpio Rising too, as they went on a (rather long) diatribe concerning how great Scorpio Rising is.

But wait! Maelstrom! You're an Eighth House Sun (with Mercury and Mars there too)! You two can agree on another thing! Scorpio tenacity is a great gift, and a saving grace for the lowly arachnids.


I hear what you're saying Mr RedScorp ;-D I'm assuming you're a Mister not a Miss...?? I was going to enlighten you all on the "bonuses" of having Leo Rising but then I thought, nah I'll keep my magnificence to myself..... ;-D

PS.I'm an arachnid? I'm a fish! I have no legs let alone eight ;-D

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Maelstrom
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posted October 20, 2012 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh bugger, this site is confusing me.....my posts keep disappearing....

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RedScorp
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posted October 20, 2012 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yes definitely a mister! But people mistake me for a miss sometime lol! No harm taken, it's amusing haha!

And noooo share the magnificence! Use Leo Risings gotta stick together! Who's gonna scratch my back? Whose back am I gonna scratch?

quote:
I have no legs let alone eight ;-D

LOL wait why are you winking!

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Maelstrom
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posted October 20, 2012 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who's going to scratch your back?? As if you have to ask! You're a Leo Rising darling - the whole world scratches your back....

PS I havent got a clue how to use the proper smily's hence the crap winking symbol

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RedScorp
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posted October 20, 2012 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ou, "darling", I like this!

Well, I think most smilies don't involve a hyphen, so ditch that, and you're golden!

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Maelstrom
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posted October 20, 2012 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedScorp:
[B]Oh yes definitely a mister! But people mistake me for a miss sometime lol! No harm taken, it's amusing haha!

I never assumed you were a Miss - I assumed you were a Mister, Mr Redscorp (imsert proper smily face here)

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Maelstrom
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posted October 20, 2012 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maelstrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
test smiley

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RedScorp
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posted October 20, 2012 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^You got it!

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indigomoon8
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posted October 20, 2012 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for indigomoon8     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hate the way Sailor Mercury represents virgo. She is the most uninteresting, unattractive sailor scout. She doesn't represent the true creative, ambitious,mysterious, intelligent, elegant virgo.

I think I'm going to wait the anime you've mentioned above I see alot of cute guys lol

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Pisces Adonis
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posted October 20, 2012 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pisces Adonis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Maelstrom:

It annoys the hell out of me when I see my sign getting trashed for being supposedly "weak willed" or "prone to substance misuse". Nothing could be further from the truth in my case, and many other feb/March born people I know. Many times I have tried to turn my back on astrology as I found it so damaging to read that rubbish.

Also to add on to this-what ****** me is how they always portray Pisces men as effeminate androgynous men! George Washington is an example of a muscular Pisces . And not all of us are pretty-I know Pisces people (girls included) who are just plain looking, if not ugly (in the opinions of other people). Steve Jobs is one such living example.

I know a Gemini girl IRL who has Pisces Rising and she matches the Pisces physicaldescritpion (beautiful eyes, feminine looking,) more than any other Pisces I know (including me) IRL!

quote:
Originally posted by indigomoon8:
I hate the way Sailor Mercury represents virgo. She is the most uninteresting, unattractive sailor scout. She doesn't represent the true creative, ambitious,mysterious, intelligent, elegant virgo.


She is is much more Capricornish (though she has the Virgonian analytic M.O). She's an example of Sailor Moon being less exaggerrated over portrayal of Astrological stereotypes

quote:
Originally posted by indigomoon8:
I think I'm going to wait the anime you've mentioned above I see alot of cute guys lol

XD Saint Seiya is infamous of its drooling (at times creepy stalkerish) fan girls. Literally a treasure of Bishonen (I assume you're familiar with that word). In fact it was responsible for popularizing the concept of Yaoi(romance between men) fanfic.

If you love Bishie men, oh you will LOVE Saint Seiya-its a literal treasure of them!And we're talking about beauty from all shades from muscular hunks to buff Arnies men to even androgynous feminine looking men (which unfortunately they repeat this Pisces stereotype here).

The first pic I linked in the above post is the Pisces Saint (which as I mentioned is effeminate). The second pic is the Leo Saint (muscular and masculine as the stereotypical Leo!). I can PM you more pics of the Gold Saints if you want !


quote:
Originally posted by RedScorp:
I take it they're a Scorpio Rising too, as they went on a (rather long) diatribe concerning how great Scorpio Rising is.

But wait! Maelstrom! You're an Eighth House Sun (with Mercury and Mars there too)! You two can agree on another thing! Scorpio tenacity is a great gift, and a saving grace for the lowly arachnids.


XD Leo Rising,Taurus Rising, and Aries Rising are known to give strong willpower and tenacity to Pisces people too. Those 3 along with Scorpio Rising are the most beneficial for a Pisces I've concluded from my readings.

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Pisces Adonis
Newflake

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From: Catholic Altair
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posted October 20, 2012 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pisces Adonis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Deplicate post delete please.

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indigomoon8
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posted October 21, 2012 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for indigomoon8     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love what they did with Virgo in Saint Seiya, made him so godly,powerful and serene....

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Stawr
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posted October 21, 2012 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
here is an independent horror film that has a zodiac theme called "the 13th sign"


12 contestants think they are competing on a reality show. But it's a trap, and are apart of a satanic ritual where they are tortured and used to unleash hell on 12-21-12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U8itefoOIs

I want to see it because Waylon and Jeffery Nothing from Mushroomhead are in the film.

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