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Author
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Topic: Finding What Isn't "There"
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mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 714
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted October 23, 2012 12:01 AM
  
I'm putting this here rather than PR as I already know this person pretty well, but am attempting to suss out the astrological bases for extant observations. I understand if it needs to be moved.
This chart also reinforces - as it did for me - that there's more "there" than the Big Three or even The Big Three + Mars and Venus.How would you say that someone has relatively stereotypical Cancerian and Virgoan* behaviors given this chart?
My first answer is that crazy Saturn in the 4th and actively aspected 6th house Pluto.
Could the Sun/Moon opposition also have something to so with lack of confidence?
Does Saturn sq Moon + Neptune conj Moon = sensitive and introspective, even for a lunar Saggi?
Let me know if those seem on the mark or if you have other observations. Note: I'm pretty sure of the birth date and time. At any rate, once you get to know this person, the rest of the chart really pops out as well. * Extremely devoted to family, patient - not sure if that actually fits either the crab or the virgin, but it's there, perhaps due to some of the outlined factors + the Bullish energy - self-effacing, self-critical, etc. ------------------
If I've included this sig, it's because I'm posting from a mobile device.
Please excuse all outrageous typos and confusing auto-corrects. IP: Logged |
Lotis White
Knowflake Posts: 720
From: USA
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted October 23, 2012 01:43 AM
Hmmm,My thoughts are that the strength of Saturn and Pluto in this person’s chart has a big impact on there character. When looking at natal aspects the outer planet seems to have a stronger influence on the inner planets… For instance, Saturn/Sun will become similar to Capricorn Sun. This person has Saturn and Pluto strongly aspecting each other and also aspecting their Sun/Jupiter and Neptune. I’ve got Saturn/Jupiter myself and I’m pretty level-headed and reasonable. With Pluto also involved this person is probably not only steadfast and dedicated on a practical level (Saturn), but also intensely loyal, and maybe a little possessive, on an emotional level. This person also has an Earth Asc, and an Earth Mc. Out in the world (Taurus Asc), and in their career (Capricorn MC) they approach life from a practical standpoint, but in in there private life (Cancer IC), and relationships (Scorpio Dsc) their attitude is much more nurturing and emotional. Mercury in Taurus ruling the planets in Gemini may also help with stability… And it’s also interesting to note that Saturn is in the 4th house conjunct the 5th house cusp… They take family issues seriously, and my feel reserved in their self-expression (Saturn conjunct the 5th house cusp). Saturn is the MC ruler increasing the sense of responsibility that this person has, considering that Saturn is so strongly aspected in this person’s chart. Also Gemini planets are Mercury ruled (by Mercury in Taurus no less), and Saturn rules the earth sign Capricorn, perhaps the mixture of Gemini energy and an earth Asc/Mercury/strong Saturn, gives off a ‘Virgo’ type of a vibe… You know, an earth/Mercury vibe. Virgo on the 6th house cusp, ruled by Mercury in the 1st house of personality in an earth sign (Ruler of the 6th in the 1st house), and Pluto strongly aspecting this person’s planets from the 6th house (which I think you mentioned), may reinforce this tendency … This person has just about all of their planets in earth and water houses. The only exceptions are Uranus in the 7th house, and Mercury in the 1st house. Otherwise, it’s Sun/Jupiter in the 2nd house (Again giving off an earth/Mercury vibe), Venus and Mars in the 12th house (they have a private dreamy side, especially in the love life department), Saturn in the 4th house conjunct the 5th house cusp (serious about family, perhaps a bit shy with self-expression), Pluto in the 6th house (giving a probing mind when it comes to organization), and Moon/Neptune in the 8th house (Needs privacy and intimacy in life). Having most of his planets in feminine houses may increase the introversion of this person, making them more internalized with their energy. Still, there is no denying that this guy has a lot of masculine sign planets, with an emphasis on Gemini and Sagittarius. This person is curious and has an active, sharp mind, and is probably very knowledgeable in some way. They may think, read, study or talk a lot. Also, if this person seems reserved do to other influences in the chart, people might be surprised that when this person is pushed they’ve got more fight then expected…. Venus and Mars in Aries are hidden in the 12th house, but they are still there! This person has a lot of trines and sextiles in their chart so they probably have an aversion to drama, and drastic changes. They prefer a flowing, consistent course in life and would rather not rock the boat unless forced to. There’s a Sun/Moon opposition but this is rather wide. There something of a need to learn how to balance the ego with emotions. The Jupiter/ Neptune opposition very tight however. Oppositions in the chart tend to make people negotiators in life, and can also make then indecisive and give them a tendency to mull over things. This person may spend a lot of time weighing the pros and cons, and determining the best way to act in situations.
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TreeFrog
Newflake Posts: 9
From:
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted October 23, 2012 02:38 AM
Mercury in the first; Cancer on an angle. Look to see what the moon is doing too -if it's angular, or prominent in some way (highly aspected, etc), then that's the culprit.That aside, there's also the issue of perception. Maybe the chart owner isn't even Mercurial or Cancerian but someone else misread their personal energy that way...which might explain why the energy doesn't readily appear in the chart and you have to go looking for it...which makes the title of the thread, accurate in a very literal way. Hopefully I'm making sense, here. To some extent that's true astrologically in other ways as well - like for example if someone posts a chart and says that everyone is combative or mean towards them...then you look at the chart and see a highly afflicted, prominent Mars or something...and then you know it's an error in their perception or that they're outright lying. In a nutshell, whatever it is you're trying to find out, is always there in the chart, and if the markers aren't there, then that means there's some kind of error elsewhere. IP: Logged |
mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 714
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted October 23, 2012 09:12 AM
TreeFrog - Thanks!
I keep forgetting about the importance of the angles; and, while I knew that the Moon is highly aspected, I didn't think it would make that much of a difference. quote:
Originally posted by TreeFrog:
That aside, there's also the issue of perception. Maybe the chart owner isn't even Mercurial or Cancerian but someone else misread their personal energy that way...which might explain why the energy doesn't readily appear in the chart and you have to go looking for it...which makes the title of the thread, accurate in a very literal way.Hopefully I'm making sense, here.
Makes perfect sense. quote:
To some extent that's true astrologically in other ways as well - like for example if someone posts a chart and says that everyone is combative or mean towards them...then you look at the chart and see a highly afflicted, prominent Mars or something...and then you know it's an error in their perception or that they're outright lying. In a nutshell, whatever it is you're trying to find out, is always there in the chart, and if the markers aren't there, then that means there's some kind of error elsewhere.[/b]
That was a concern of mine as well, and I've definitely seen the, "Everyone's treating me X!" (because it's reflective of something within me) phenomenon. I think that that may be why I named this thread as I did. I've known this person for awhile, though, and (given some of the aspects of the chart I mentioned) I wanted to confirm - and also explore.
Finding new ways to look at something you think you "know" is always cool. Lotis - First off, I have to say that you have a gift. I haven't been on much so haven't seen you in action, but it seems like you've combined a lot of hard work and a spot-on astrological intuition into quite a talent. quote:
Originally posted by Lotis White:
Hmmm,My thoughts are that the strength of Saturn and Pluto in this person’s chart has a big impact on there character. When looking at natal aspects the outer planet seems to have a stronger influence on the inner planets… For instance, Saturn/Sun will become similar to Capricorn Sun. This person has Saturn and Pluto strongly aspecting each other and also aspecting their Sun/Jupiter and Neptune. I’ve got Saturn/Jupiter myself and I’m pretty level-headed and reasonable. With Pluto also involved this person is probably not only steadfast and dedicated on a practical level (Saturn), but also intensely loyal, and maybe a little possessive, on an emotional level.
Yes, though I'd passed off that last part to his Asc/Desc axis. It's good to see other roots. quote:
This person also has an Earth Asc, and an Earth Mc. Out in the world (Taurus Asc), and in their career (Capricorn MC) they approach life from a practical standpoint, but in in there private life (Cancer IC), and relationships (Scorpio Dsc) their attitude is much more nurturing and emotional.
I haven't really delved into MC/IC yet - thank you for pointing them and their influence out.
quote:
Mercury in Taurus ruling the planets in Gemini may also help with stability… And it’s also interesting to note that Saturn is in the 4th house conjunct the 5th house cusp… They take family issues seriously, and my feel reserved in their self-expression (Saturn conjunct the 5th house cusp).
Yes, again.
I had loosely attributed the generally reserved nature to Saturn, but hadn't narrowed it down quite so much. quote:
Saturn is the MC ruler increasing the sense of responsibility that this person has, considering that Saturn is so strongly aspected in this person’s chart. Also Gemini planets are Mercury ruled (by Mercury in Taurus no less), and Saturn rules the earth sign Capricorn, perhaps the mixture of Gemini energy and an earth Asc/Mercury/strong Saturn, gives off a ‘Virgo’ type of a vibe… You know, an earth/Mercury vibe. Virgo on the 6th house cusp, ruled by Mercury in the 1st house of personality in an earth sign (Ruler of the 6th in the 1st house), and Pluto strongly aspecting this person’s planets from the 6th house (which I think you mentioned), may reinforce this tendency …
That makes sense.
And describing them a "Virgo" may not have been exactly accurate, though people with this degree of attention to detail (which some may uncharitably call "pickiness") that I've known have usually had Virgo as a major part of their charts. quote:
This person has just about all of their planets in earth and water houses. The only exceptions are Uranus in the 7th house, and Mercury in the 1st house. Otherwise, it’s Sun/Jupiter in the 2nd house (Again giving off an earth/Mercury vibe), Venus and Mars in the 12th house (they have a private dreamy side, especially in the love life department), Saturn in the 4th house conjunct the 5th house cusp (serious about family, perhaps a bit shy with self-expression), Pluto in the 6th house (giving a probing mind when it comes to organization), and Moon/Neptune in the 8th house (Needs privacy and intimacy in life). Having most of his planets in feminine houses may increase the introversion of this person, making them more internalized with their energy.
I hadn't thought of looking at the elements of the houses.
Well, that may not be entirely true. I've asked for help with this chart before (I come to astrology in jigs and jags), and I think someone may have mentioned it - I just keep forgetting  quote:
Still, there is no denying that this guy has a lot of masculine sign planets, with an emphasis on Gemini and Sagittarius. This person is curious and has an active, sharp mind, and is probably very knowledgeable in some way. They may think, read, study or talk a lot.
Yes!
And not only "a lot" but well. While not currently employed as a teacher/professor, this person's really wonderful at it - there's a real talent for taking in, thinking about, translating, and disseminating knowledge. quote:
Also, if this person seems reserved do to other influences in the chart, people might be surprised that when this person is pushed they’ve got more fight then expected…. Venus and Mars in Aries are hidden in the 12th house, but they are still there!
Yes.
The fight doesn't often come out, but it's definitely there when it does. One of my favorite activities is to start a conversation or debate and really see this person get going. quote:
This person has a lot of trines and sextiles in their chart so they probably have an aversion to drama, and drastic changes. They prefer a flowing, consistent course in life and would rather not rock the boat unless forced to. There’s a Sun/Moon opposition but this is rather wide. There something of a need to learn how to balance the ego with emotions. The Jupiter/ Neptune opposition very tight however. Oppositions in the chart tend to make people negotiators in life, and can also make then indecisive and give them a tendency to mull over things. This person may spend a lot of time weighing the pros and cons, and determining the best way to act in situations.
Yep - and with a Gemini Sun, the internal negotiations are pretty vibrant.
I'm more of an, "OK - let's do something now and we can weigh our options while something's being done," person, so it's good to know that sometimes patience is the only way to go.
re: balancing ego with emotions: From what I understand, a good deal of this work happened when the subject was a teenager and young adult - a good deal.
While still fundamentally the same person, there quite a bit of this chart's expression changed with age.Well, cool!
Do you mind if I show him what you saw in his chart (crediting you, of course)? IP: Logged |
waxlobster
Knowflake Posts: 111
From: Birmingham
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted October 23, 2012 10:10 AM
May I say, if you know the person well why would you refer to them as 'stereotypical' that gives me the impression you don't know them deeply, and what makes them individual. There is nobody who isn't unique.In terms of Cancer IC, Moon softened by Neptune, there's a likelihood of very nurturing behaviour learned from family/parents. For Virgo look to Chiron conjunct the Ascendant. Virgo rules Chiron ~maybe not a widely believed notion but if you know Chiron and Virgo well you tend to see they are linked on all levels. Virgos are *not* preoccupied with communication but with *understanding* ~the higher octave of Chiron :-) IP: Logged |
Lotis White
Knowflake Posts: 720
From: USA
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted October 23, 2012 11:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mockingbird:
Well, cool!
Do you mind if I show him what you saw in his chart (crediting you, of course)?
I don't mind. But if I'd known he might actually read this I'd have made it more flattering! Ha ha. IP: Logged |
mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 714
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted October 23, 2012 12:34 PM
Nah, look at that Saturn.
If something's all roses, he doesn't believe it  ------------------
If I've included this sig, it's because I'm posting from a mobile device.
Please excuse all outrageous typos and confusing auto-corrects. IP: Logged |
mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 714
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted October 23, 2012 02:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by waxlobster:
May I say, if you know the person well why would you refer to them as 'stereotypical' that gives me the impression you don't know them deeply, and what makes them individual. There is nobody who isn't unique.
Yep.
We're all unique - just like everybody else.While you have no one who's a walking stereotype (good luck finding a "pure" Aquarius, for example, except for maybe Eddie Izzard), all of us aspects of our personalities that may be referred to in short-hand as "very X or Y".
The fun, however, is in embracing, reveling in, the lovely contradictions and cross-speak inherent in being a living, breathing being. But I will grant you that after 3 years of marriage I don't wholly "know" my husband, and I doubt that I will after 40 years - isn't that the wonderful part, though? quote:
In terms of Cancer IC, Moon softened by Neptune, there's a likelihood of very nurturing behaviour learned from family/parents. For Virgo look to Chiron conjunct the Ascendant. Virgo rules Chiron ~maybe not a widely believed notion but if you know Chiron and Virgo well you tend to see they are linked on all levels. Virgos are *not* preoccupied with communication but with *understanding* ~the higher octave of Chiron :-)[
Yes! I've heard that about Virgo and Chiron. That does make sense, especially if viewed in tandem with the tendency to want to fix that I've seen with Virgos.
Re: nurturing parents: I won't go into it why, but that misses the mark somewhat.
Could it also be indicative of having to develop empathy at an early age and/or caring for others at an early age?------------------
If I've included this sig, it's because I'm posting from a mobile device.
Please excuse all outrageous typos and confusing auto-corrects. IP: Logged |
waxlobster
Knowflake Posts: 111
From: Birmingham
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted October 23, 2012 04:29 PM
Oh true, it's wonderful getting to know somebody more and more over time. That is the beauty of relationships, the beauty of spending that time listening, finding out of course.I suppose Moon-Neptune conjunct could imply a very insecure background yes...that or creatively nurturing (note to 'learn nurturing from parents/family' does not necessarily mean to emulate but to develop that characteristic from experiences in those areas.) I didn't analyse the whole chart, apologies, I was simply looking at the key markers. (And I can't see the chart now I'm typing in a box!) I guess I feel uncomfortable with the idea of 'stereotypical' due to Sun sign astrology. The wonder of truly learning astrology is that the uniqueness of a chart shines out when you dig deep, just as people do. I wouldn't associate being family oriented with Cancer per se, neither would I associate detail/focussed approaches with Virgo but.... I've been looking at astrology for a *long* time and over time the planets have a lot more gravitas and than the signs. Your friend wants to be seen as caring and supportive and always there for others (Chiron rising) but this is a mere glance of the external character, as I'm sure you know :-) IP: Logged | |
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