posted December 03, 2012 10:03 PM            

I must first say that I am in no way giving permission to pursue an extra-marital affair, it could result in disaster for both of you and members of your immediate families.  But I first feel strongly that if anything were to happen with him, he would feel so guilt ridden that he would cut you off completely.  That's one of the most common behaviors for people with hard Mars-Saturn aspects in their charts.  Hanging up the phone is their favorite method of expressing anger, cutting off communication, and when they cut you out of their lives, there's no letting you back in and I feel that would devastate you at this time. On the other hand I could be completely wrong, especially since I have never had a conversation with this man and can not confirm anything about his chart.  I can only assume certain behaviors.  The Warnings:  He has Sun-Mercury-Neptune conjunction.  The positives of this is that he can tune in spiritually, he can be poetic, musical, romantic, speak and understand many languages.  The negatives of this aspect are confused, muddled and deceptive communication,  just plain lying, major possibility of substance abuse, diving deeply into the dark side of spirituality.  A fascination with death, vampires, swamps, raw sensuality, the underworld, mafia-type energy. A T-Square of Saturn-Mars-Venus:  Saturn square Mars suggests great control, skill, but incredible anger issues.  I always warn women when I see a man who has a hard Mars-Saturn aspect in his chart.  It can suggest brutality plain and simple.  And we all know there is nothing plain and simple about brutality.  This could be a person who needs anger management on the highest level.  This is the signature of the boxer, the surgeon, the mountain climber, the sculpter, the designer, the architect.  It is also the signature of the person who was treated brutally as a child, possibly every day by an person in authority, most likely the father or father figure.  This is a person who usually shows an incredibly tough persona. Venus is a part of this T-Square, possibly softening it up slightly yet squashing some of his social aspirations, placing a control factor on his ability to give and receive love.  He may not ever have a completely satisfying relationship.  It's not to say that he can't receive love or have a successful relationship, it's more that he will always have some type of control issues around love and sexuality.o

posted February 18, 2016 05:20 PM            

"
The Saturn Complex. Saturn represents the rules of the game, the principles, the boundaries, the law. The content of the law changes when we shift from one age to the next. Five thousand years ago the laws that governed society were different than the majority of the laws we have now. We are born into whatever the consensus reality beliefs are that make up the structure of our reality. We can't get out of it. The rules or laws and ways of perceiving reality are impressed upon us as we enter this 3-D realm. If a person has a Saturn Complex, they absolutely can not get out of it, and often find they are continually experiencing heavy encounters with the laws of the ruling culture. In the last five thousand years, the Saturn Complex has had a content that includes guilt, atonement, and original sin. These three issues have supported the notion that a person is not okay just the way they are, and they have to prove themselves to the fathers. The fathers could be a literal father, or God, or any external authority figure. Someone with a Saturn complex usually winds up living their life in a way that will hopefully earn them approval from the outside authority figures. Plus they also wind up adopting the ethical judgments and morals of the ruling culture. More than any other planetary complex it is those with a Saturn Complex that tend to compare who they are and their accomplishments to the standards of the culture they were born into as way to determine how well they are doing with their life. Part of the programming inherent in the Saturn Complex is the belief that there is a logical connection between a person's merit, how good they are, how well they perform, and what the return is. This is rooted in the concept of karma. The fundamentalist view of karma says; "As you sow, so shall you reap," and it is a perfect example of Saturn programming. I am not claiming this is an untrue principle from some perspectives, but with a Saturn Complex, a person is constantly hit over the head with the fact that there is no logical connection between how well they are doing and the reward they receive for their efforts, even though they are led to believe there is. No matter how hard they try to act in accordance with the principles and morals of the ruling culture, or how motivated and driven they are to live their lives as perfectly as possible, there is no additional reward that appears as a result. Question: Are you saying with a Saturn Complex, doing your best in that area of your life won't produce the reward or benefits a person expects? Yes. Where the Saturn Complex shows up on the natal chart is where a person is shown over and over again that the approval or rewards they expect for how good they are in that area, never really manifest in a concrete way. If we look at Saturn in dynamic aspect to the Sun we could say that Saturn influences this person in every area of their life, because Saturn is infused into that person’s fuel. The entire chart burns the fuel of the Sun so every area of life is affected. Saturn in dynamic aspect to the Moon shows up as heavy boundaries and limitations and judgment associated with the lineage. This means the very thing a person is best at, the thing they have three or four Ph.D.s in from their past, is now continuously being shown to NOT be good enough. The term I use to illustrate this is, "Not Okay!!" I once had an old William Blake painting called The Judgment of Adam that perfectly captured this imagery. It depicted the Father God as a severe elder character pointing his finger at Adam who had his head bowed in shame. It was as if God was saying to Adam, "Not Okay!" The Way out of a Saturn Complex The way out of a Saturn Complex is to see that there is no logical connection between your merit and your rewards. When you are really able to understand this, then you can relax. You will probably still be a person who is driven, achievement and accomplishment oriented, hard working, and a perfectionist, because those qualities are inherent in you. The difference is now you are doing it because it's fun, or because it seemed like a good thing to do that day. The drivenness and other qualities become just another personal trait, like having red hair and green eyes, or being left handed. In the same way we have certain traits based on our genetic make-up, some people have a Saturn Complex and some don't. Until a person figures out the hoax of the Saturn Complex, they usually experience one of two patterns. The first pattern is the feeling that God is judging them, or they experience the constant judgment of those who are in power (the authority figures). Often, these people end up beating the external authority figures (the parents, the teacher's, the CEO's of the company, etc.) at their own game, by outperforming them using their very same principles. The other pattern expresses as the rebel who rebels against the principles of their family or culture. Some examples of how this has manifested are: the son who refuses to take over the family business and disgraces the family with outrageous behavior, the daughter who interracially marries or marries "beneath" her, or the political activist who fights the system. However, the rebel is still beholden to the same energy, the same external law in reference to what they are in reaction against, and they are still ultimately giving their personal power away to external authority, because the same type of energy is still running the show."

posted February 18, 2016 06:09 PM            

For me, I think Mars/Saturn is about standing up for oneself. Don't let the sometimes mean ol' Saturn hold you back. Now that I'm older, i do have a lot of resentment for people although i try not to let pain from to past get to me by thinking of mostly positive thoughts. Mars/Saturn hard aspect feels truly uncomfortable. A chip on my shoulder. As if I could explode any moment.

posted February 19, 2016 06:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScorpioMoon:
Ugh. i have this, and I hate it. Mars in Aries square Saturn in Capricorn with Jupiter square Mars and Saturn Conjunct Neptune among other aspects in the mix as well. For a long time, my childhood was full of me getting attacked verbally and especially physically by seemingly any and everyone. Mom hit me for silly things like not wanting to eat dinner, doing homework incorrectly, making too much noise, kids at school would sexually harass me, haphazardly attack with no explanation, if I'd defend myself be it with my words or my fists, I'd usually get reprimanded by other kids or authority figures. Every so often a competent person would come along and have to remind people that I have every right to defend myself. Those people I encountered in my childhood really seemed to enjoy my pain whether they were the perpetrator or an on-looker.

For me, I think Mars/Saturn is about standing up for oneself. Don't let the sometimes mean ol' Saturn hold you back. Now that I'm older, i do have a lot of resentment for people although i try not to let pain from to past get to me by thinking of mostly positive thoughts. Mars/Saturn hard aspect feels truly uncomfortable. A chip on my shoulder. As if I could explode any moment.

Saturn in the 11th house
Mars in the 1st House

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Wow, this is so on point. Almost everything you wrote resonates.
I have this too, and a pretty tight square at that.

posted February 19, 2016 05:45 PM            

SATURN in the 11th House.... I have this placement. Retro, in Scorpio.

What I've read and heard is that this placement can suggest emotional crippling. And also that this person is very afraid of their own strong feelings, or to express their own strong feelings.... almost like 'that explosion-feeling inside', ScorpioMoon.

Thing is, that people WITH this place also later (maybe from going through abusive situations, such as the Bullying) can help make a Difference in society (11th?) by being an advocate for/against those issues you endured and had experiences with. There is nothing ever wasted that you go through in your lifetime. ALL your experiences go into an emotional bank, to be processed, then as life presents you with adversities, you are able to draw automatic Intelligence FROM that bank.

I did a quick computer search, and found a page from a favorite esoteric astrologer teacher mentor-person.

Alan Oken.... Direct quotations http://www.alanoken.com/index.php?page=saturn-lord-of-karma-and-its-function-in-your-chart

Saturn in the Eleventh House: The orientation to take on social responsibilities for the sake of the group.
It also gives the experience of consolidating spiritual visions and aspirations for the benefit of many people.
If afflicted on the 'personality' level, blocks occur to one’s social progress leading to frustration.

Saturn in Capricorn: When accompanied by love and wisdom, this potent position may serve to create those structures that lead the individual (and others) up the Mountain of Initiation.
The Third Ray is at its most powerful here, endowing the Soul-centered individual with astute mental abilities and an especial talent for handling the economic considerations of life.
On the 'personality' level, there is the tendency to make up one’s own rules and regulations no matter what the reality of universal Law may be.
An incarnation with abundant opportunities to put the Will-to-Good into material form and concrete actions.

/EndQuote

There is a 'higher' expression and a 'lower' expression possible for a planet/Person to operate on.

Lower or 'personality' level, usually means that the person isn't aware they are doing it.

The 'higher' expression means that you have higher Ideals, and you CHOOSE to Walk In Love.

This is something to work at, every day of your life. Somedays might be better than another, but 'you' be the one to Walk your Talk in the best way you can manage to. Doesn't mean you do it perfectly, but do your best. If you can only do 30% that day? then give 100% TO than 30% ability.

Also too, being a Good Neighbor when others are being Bullied is super-important. AS an 11th House Saturn, with Juno (a voice for the vulnerable, too) there trine my Mars Cancer, we MUST rally to support people (making it a 'fair' fight).

posted February 19, 2016 06:33 PM            

This aspect is a challenge to be constructive rather than impulsive, and productive rather than merely playing it safe. Assert yourself within a narrowed sphere of ongoing sequential action rather than aiming long. Task orientation, not controlling.

posted February 19, 2016 11:32 PM            

I haven't been bullied in school and if I have, I don't remember. What I do remember is how much repressed anger that I have just building up. It's not your typical, "Oh I hate you," type of anger. It's the type where anger going into imaginings of murderous situations taken to the very extremes in which the common people could not properly process within their minds "extreme". This could be due to other aspects, especially Moon Opposite Pluto, but a lot of the time I've been finding myself in deep depressions in which anger is the only thing I ever feel anymore.

I think a big lesson with this aspect is learning to be assertive (a.k.a balance between action and self-control). Learning to express your anger without just letting things slip (which causes resentment towards the world), yet not slamming someone's head against the wall for simply trying to take your phone. It's very difficult because Saturn is restrictive and Mars is aggressive. Mars wants to demolish everything and Saturn is like, "Nope, not doing that," and Mars is like, "Screw you Saturn, I'll do what I want!"

posted February 20, 2016 07:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tuileries:
According to shamanic astrology, you have a Saturn Complex. Saturn makes the expression of your Mars more difficult (in which sign is it?).

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