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Author Topic:   Venus/Pluto - fire with fire
Nicole401
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posted December 26, 2012 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nicole401     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know Venus/Pluto is probably discussed just as much as what placements make one attractive, or whatever.

But I have a genuine, maybe even interesting, question regarding Venus and Pluto. Far beyond the intensity and darkness, the depth and submerging in the waters - in a relationship.

Rather the impulse to get even and fight. Even when there isn't a fight. The impulse to control and, manipulate, in order to get what you want, knowing that itself does not satisfy. You want more, but you don't quite know what for.

HOW DO YOU STOP IT?

Theres a certain "dark" hungriness, that doesn't ever really get fulfilled. Almost like a drug, the more you take, the more you want - to hurt others - the ones you love.

I truly admire those who can walk away, knowing that when someones in love with them, they can do whatever they want with them, but choose not to.

Why does Pluto feel the need to control, despite the cost?

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StacyLewis
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posted December 26, 2012 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StacyLewis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm confused by the question, because it's posed from the viewpoint that Pluto only manifests as vindictiveness and a need to control, and as a bunch of other negative things.

Which in and of itself, is fundamentally false.

Fire with fire sounds like Mars/Mars anyway - Venus/Pluto is air and water.

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Nicole401
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posted December 26, 2012 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nicole401     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I really meant, evil with evil.

Don't even know what im saying anymore..

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sand
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posted December 26, 2012 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
if u catch yourself in the moment of manipulation i suppose you can stop it. i caught myself once. so i let her go. though i manipulated the parting as well. hopeless lol! venus and pluto are my dominants.

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted December 27, 2012 05:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To the OP. I know just what you mean. It's very frustrating. I see it not just with venus-pluto but with any important pluto aspects, ie sun venus or moon hard aspect pluto in composite or synastry. I don't see it with the trines or sextiles, though. Those seem to work well.

I have venus and mars square pluto natally, so I'm always struggling with that with everyone in general, but it is def more potent when i have venus sq or opposite pluto with someone in synastry.

The funny thing is, I'm addicted to plutonian relationships, I guess being so plutonian myself (pluto in the first, sun trine pluto, mars and venus square pluto) so i love them, but they're usually short-lived, because of the problems you mentioned. That "hungriness" to be proven just how much that person cares about you over and over. I totally understand.

------------------
Umm...I'm a Cancer sun that's saturn, uranus, jupiter, and pluto dominant. Soo I'm basically a tell it like it is kind of person $3.50 ebay compatibility readings | testimonials | Past readings | Ideal compatibility (3rd post) | Q&A | What's a Love stellium? | Most important aspects descriptions | Aspects to avoid

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Jessica2407
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posted December 27, 2012 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
To the OP. I know just what you mean. It's very frustrating. I see it not just with venus-pluto but with any important pluto aspects, ie sun venus or moon hard aspect pluto in composite or synastry. I don't see it with the trines or sextiles, though. Those seem to work well.

I have venus and mars square pluto natally, so I'm always struggling with that with everyone in general, but it is def more potent when i have venus sq or opposite pluto with someone in synastry.

The funny thing is, I'm addicted to plutonian relationships, I guess being so plutonian myself (pluto in the first, sun trine pluto, mars and venus square pluto) so i love them, but they're usually short-lived, because of the problems you mentioned. That "hungriness" to be proven just how much that person cares about you over and over. I totally understand.


What if someone has mars square pluto natally, and that person has his mars square my pluto in synastry, and his pluto sextile my venus. How does this balance itself out? considering that the sextile aspect is 'softer'? or does the sextile aspect in this case makes it become more obsessive?

If I may ask you, if you truly cares about that person and if that person tells you that you hurt them with your mind games (which for you would be justifiable since you 'only' want to know if the other person cares about you) would you stop?

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted December 27, 2012 06:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wanted to post this article since it relates to the topic

http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2012/08/venus-pluto-you-want-love -that-consumes.html#.UNwuG-fwOSo


Um, to answer your question about if I would stop. Haha, unfortunately it's not on purpose that I do things like this. It stems from feeling like the other person doesn't care. I really think in venus square/opp pluto in synastry the two people just kind of have two totally different ideas about what is hurtful and what isn't--what's important and what isn't. for example, one person might not care very much about replying in a timely manner to texts and messages, and that will actually be the other person's biggest pet peeve and/or fear. Or One person does not really feel the need to be very expressive either in person or online or whatever, and the other person will take their curt responses and silence as rejection because they are huge lovers of self-expression and chitchattery banter, and the other person just seems to be kind of the opposite. It seems like what is important to one person (Pluto) is at odds with how the other person perceives/receives/gives love. (Venus)

So it's not like it happens on purpose. It's just two individuals who came together and have different values about what is considered loving in a relationship, or how to express that someone is important to you.

So, you can imagine that this would be a very hurtful encounter, and of course, one or both people cannot help but to play games in response to a false perception of the other person playing games (bc they dont consider that to be important, ie being chitchattery). And so what happens is, you have this relationship where the two people love each other very much, but they have to go to the ends of the earth and back to prove their love to the other, because the other person doesn't seem to believe them. And so this could be very healing in a way, because it forces you to face your demons, your fears, to be honest with each other, and to have your biggest fears proven either false or true. Being so vulnerable about the way someone treats you can make you feel strangely purged or transformed. Passion reminds you to live life to the fullest in a way, when other meager relationships in comparsion seem to fall by the wayside. They cause a purification of values. Perversion of love/superficial attraction cannot coexist with venus-pluto.

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Jessica2407
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posted December 27, 2012 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Just wanted to post this article since it relates to the topic

http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2012/08/venus-pluto-you-want-love -that-consumes.html#.UNwuG-fwOSo


Um, to answer your question about if I would stop. Haha, unfortunately it's not on purpose that I do things like this. It stems from feeling like the other person doesn't care. I really think in venus square/opp pluto in synastry the two people just kind of have two totally different ideas about what is hurtful and what isn't--what's important and what isn't. for example, one person might not care very much about replying in a timely manner to texts and messages, and that will actually be the other person's biggest pet peeve and/or fear. Or One person does not really feel the need to be very expressive either in person or online or whatever, and the other person will take their curt responses and silence as rejection because they are huge lovers of self-expression and chitchattery banter, and the other person just seems to be kind of the opposite. It seems like what is important to one person (Pluto) is at odds with how the other person perceives/receives/gives love. (Venus)

So it's not like it happens on purpose. It's just two individuals who came together and have different values about what is considered loving in a relationship, or how to express that someone is important to you.

So, you can imagine that this would be a very hurtful encounter, and of course, one or both people cannot help but to play games in response to a false perception of the other person playing games (bc they dont consider that to be important, ie being chitchattery). And so what happens is, you have this relationship where the two people love each other very much, but they have to go to the ends of the earth and back to prove their love to the other, because the other person doesn't seem to believe them. And so this could be very healing in a way, because it forces you to face your demons, your fears, to be honest with each other, and to have your biggest fears proven either false or true. Being so vulnerable about the way someone treats you can make you feel strangely purged or transformed. Passion reminds you to live life to the fullest in a way, when other meager relationships in comparsion seem to fall by the wayside. They cause a purification of values. Perversion of love/superficial attraction cannot coexist with venus-pluto.


oh my dear friend, you've just described to the dot the story of my life. LOL Am venus, so yeah I'm a 'huge lover of self-expression and chitchattery banter' ( i love how you describe it ) and that would be my plutonian guy, I know he feels exactly like you described ' one or both people cannot help but to play games in response to a false perception of the other person playing games (bc they dont consider that to be important, ie being chitchattery)'

Come to think of it, these aspects have SO much influence in our lives ya?

going to read the article now... thanks for this post

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted December 27, 2012 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aw, you are welcome

------------------
Umm...I'm a Cancer sun that's saturn, uranus, jupiter, and pluto dominant. Soo I'm basically a tell it like it is kind of person :) $3.50 ebay compatibility readings | testimonials | Past readings | Ideal compatibility (3rd post) | Q&A | What's a Love stellium? | Most important aspects descriptions | Aspects to avoid

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Odette
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posted December 27, 2012 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
those who can walk away, knowing that when someones in love with them, they can do whatever they want with them, but choose not to.

This is VERY false.
You can never do 'whatever you want' with anyone.
Whatever people see as being in 'control' is a complete illusion.

I have Venus opp Pluto but I'm a spiritual person and I believe in God. People have a soul - a spirit... and trying to "control" others is much like black magic - First of all it does not work properly. Second of all - it turns against you - such is karma.

quote:
they can do whatever they want with them

Actually, this is also kind of patronising to that person.
I'm wondering - when you are personally In LOVE... Do you feel like - the object of your affection - could do anything they want *with* you?

I never feel this way. Even if I was head over heels in love - I will always have my beliefs, my morals.. and my very strong ideas about what is OK and what is NOT... so I aways make my own decisions. Maybe it's because I'm very cardinal.

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sand
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posted December 28, 2012 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^yes i think u have to control yourself the most. other people no.

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sand
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posted December 28, 2012 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I'm wondering - when you are personally In LOVE... Do you feel like - the object of your affection - could do anything they want *with* you?

almost anything for me but the chances i let my guard down is also v v rare. recently it's like i've had no guards up at all. so open to knives being driven thru.

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sand
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posted December 28, 2012 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"The singer possesses an amorous disposition a heavy and ardent approach to women, swaying between seeing her as his next love obsession and then switching to powerful feelings of regret, letting go, and staying back in control. The whole affair is filled with so much complexity that he seems comfortable in this place now."

^how it goes..

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lilithpluto
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posted December 28, 2012 01:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lilithpluto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll nvr ever again date any guy who in synastry we hv strong pluto aspect again. Never never never. Such a horrible experience. I wish nothing but to erase tt period of my life.

But i just can't help falling for guys w natal venus-pluto conjunction.

Moon-Venus-Pluto grand trine. I let my guard down, forgive too much, ignored my basic instinct. Nvr again. I can accept normal boring life. No mre drama.

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted December 28, 2012 05:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I can accept normal boring life. No mre drama.

D'aww lol. I feel u sister. For me tho, i personally will take passion over "i'm not in love" any day, because the boring relationship may last forever, but memories stay with you day in and day out and are what really matter when you look back on your life. I want passionate memories

..even if they were short lived.

------------------
Umm...I'm a Cancer sun that's saturn, uranus, jupiter, and pluto dominant. Soo I'm basically a tell it like it is kind of person $3.50 ebay compatibility readings | testimonials | Past readings | Ideal compatibility (3rd post) | Q&A | What's a Love stellium? | Most important aspects descriptions | Aspects to avoid

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Nicole401
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posted December 28, 2012 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nicole401     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Stacy Lewis I didn't really mean it like that, I just want to know what is rarely discussed; how to prevent it.

@sand You can't let go just like that though, it hurts too much to let go, unless you don't care.

@RunAroundScreaming THANK YOU. At least someone understands what I'm trying to say, despite my mercury's fogginess.

@Odette Well, not just ANY kind of people in love, usually neptunian people are involved.

Not necessarily being able to do whatever you want w/ them, just .. Nvm

----------------------------------------

There's was a specific song I was thinking of when I asked this, it's called Snapped by Jhene Aiko (you all prob don't know her). She describes the impulse so well (IMO);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StVh0snNAs

quote:

If home is where the heart is
He’s homeless cuz he’s heartless
He gave me all his heart and
I ripped the s**t to shreds
Now he’s dead
An empty shell of nothin’
Incapable of lovin’
Now, no woman will want him
Damn

Guess I’m a killer
Call me a murderer
Some kind of monster
I’m just a horrible person
I try to tell ‘em
Don’t play with my love
This is your warnin


I looked up her chart *shocker* she has Venus opp. Pluto - Taurus/Scorpio.

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sand
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posted December 28, 2012 11:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicole401:
@sand You can't let go just like that though, it hurts too much to let go, unless you don't care.

oh sometimes u have no choice when they don't want to deal with u anymore.

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Nicole401
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posted December 28, 2012 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nicole401     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sand:
oh sometimes u have no choice when they don't want to deal with u anymore.

Then in that case, THEY'RE leaving you - in theory.

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violet7887
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posted December 29, 2012 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for violet7887     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
try to remember...freewill. Its all in your mind. OR...save it for someone who can handle it.

I have Venus opposite Pluto , Taurus-Scorpio.

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sand
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posted December 29, 2012 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicole401:
Then in that case, THEY'RE leaving you - in theory.

hahaha yesh! u win some u lose some!

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sand
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posted December 29, 2012 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by violet7887:
...save it for someone who can handle it.

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Jessica2407
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posted December 29, 2012 01:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicole401:
I know Venus/Pluto is probably discussed just as much as what placements make one attractive, or whatever.

But I have a genuine, maybe even interesting, question regarding Venus and Pluto. Far beyond the intensity and darkness, the depth and submerging in the waters - in a relationship.

Rather the impulse to get even and fight. Even when there isn't a fight. The impulse to control and, manipulate, in order to get what you want, knowing that itself does not satisfy. You want more, but you don't quite know what for.

HOW DO YOU STOP IT?

Theres a certain "dark" hungriness, that doesn't ever really get fulfilled. Almost like a drug, the more you take, the more you want - to hurt others - the ones you love.

I truly admire those who can walk away, knowing that when someones in love with them, they can do whatever they want with them, but choose not to.

Why does Pluto feel the need to control, despite the cost?


Because we want to KNOW if the person is ours. If the person cares about us. Pluto doesn't even know he/she is trying to control, they only see what they feel.

How do you stop it?

I think being aware of it is good enough, that's one step at trying to control the urge to possess the other person. I have venus sextile pluto natal and lots of pluto influence in synastry, so I KNOW all about the 'tests' that he puts me through, I can even guess his next moves. In the beginning I used to feel very hurt but now I see it for what it is.

umm, I agree with everyone here who says they will take the highly charged relationships over the 'cool' ones. Either am into it up to my eyebrows or not at all.

I truly admire those who can walk away, knowing that when someones in love with them, they can do whatever they want with them, but choose not to.

No, that's not true. Not for me anyways.

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