posted January 09, 2013 07:40 AM            

As time goes by, I'm starting to think it's the worst thing in my chart, explaining much more than just how my mind functions.

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Your intellectual capabilities are well developed, and you can accomplish anything that you set your mind to. You are likely to possess academic "smarts" and writing ability. In some ways you are a loner. This is likely because your greatest feelings of security arise from a job well done.

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You will find that others often misunderstand your intentions rather easily, or that you misrepresent yourself unwittingly. You often kick yourself for saying (or, more often, not saying) something after a conversation is over.

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I was an English major, I could get an A+ on a paper and still be sad that I didn't manage to say what I wanted to say.

And I do feel lonely, because it's like I can never communicate where I am coming from exactly.

Once I had my handwriting analyzed by a professional graphologist. One of the first things out of her mouth was, "You regret most of what you say, always walking away and wishing you didn't say anything." True!

Anyone else like that?

Saturn is squaring my Saturn-Mercury opposition now, that's real fun.

I will regret posting this, but I'm trying to train myself to relax about letting things stand.

posted January 09, 2013 08:28 AM            

I don't have an opposition, but definitely struggle with the same compulsive, and immediate self doubt in communications.... (it goes beyond written). I have Saturn in the 3rd semisq Mercury.

Being overcritical of everything I write, and over analyzing... have lead me to writing, deleting/erasing/destroying a lot of things which were probably perfectly fine to begin with....

it's not the worst thing in my chart.... (Saturn opp Moon, Ven sq ASC, and Ven semisq Mars kinda take the top three podiums there)... but yeah...

the self-defeating, often agonizing decisions to speak, or not to speak, choose your words wisely, write - delete - write - delete cycle...... T_T

it is a close 4th, to say the least.

and yes.... I'll dwell on this post too loooooong after it's been forgotten by any possible reader. >__<

posted January 09, 2013 08:43 AM            

You have Gemini North Node...did I remember that correctly? So...sorry, but you HAVE to talk a lot! And it's great!

I have Scorpio NN and 3H Pluto adding to the chorus of voices in my head telling me to shut up.

But I have to say something, I'm Leo rising.

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Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
Being overcritical of everything I write, and over analyzing... have lead me to writing, deleting/erasing/destroying a lot of things which were probably perfectly fine to begin with....

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Awwww! But your style is lovely! I've been amazed at how fast your mind seems to come up with clever stuff. And I love the visual effects you create, so artistic and unique.

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Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
it's not the worst thing in my chart.... (Saturn opp Moon, Ven sq ASC, and Ven semisq Mars kinda take the top three podiums there)... but yeah...

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Saturn opp moon sounds hard...I'm not really educated about the others. I have Venus trine ASC but fail to see the perks involved...

I have a bunch of t-squares, I think my chart could be competitive, if not prize-winning, in a Worst Chart Contest. LOL...I would start a thread on that but my mind is in its wheelchair today and I shouldn't start too many threads in this condition.

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Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
and yes.... I'll dwell on this post too loooooong after it's been forgotten by any possible reader. >__<

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It was great, dwell on the fact that you comforted me! Thank you! <3

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Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
You can have all the writing and literature honours, achievements, trophies, and recognition in the world but sometimes... these hard aspects really devalue the significance and validity to the afflicted natal... no?

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posted January 09, 2013 08:57 AM            

Aquarius Mercury hates constriction but can wiggle out of many traps and still get by okay.

posted January 09, 2013 09:07 AM            

I have Saturn Cap 6th Square Retrograde Merc Lib 3rd.

I must admit that sometimes I find it difficult to talk to people, considering this makes a T Square with my Moon. It isn't very pleasant, I know that I have and do say things that don't capture how I truly feel some times. Some times conversation can flow easily and naturally, and other times I just don't quite know how to say what I'm thinking or feeling.

Anyway I have a giant T Square of;
Sun Vir, Merc Mars Lib
which Square, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune in Capricorn.
and also Square my Moon Gem and Jupiter Can.

With my Moon and Jupiter opposing my Saturn Uranus Neptune.

I don't regret the things I say, that come out and sound stupid. The things I don't or can't seem to say are what get to me. I used to think there was something not quite right with me. However, I do have Venus and Pluto Conjunct in Scorpio. So I guess I am aware that feelings are very personal to me, and i have for the most part stopped worrying about what Saturn whispers in my ear. I try my best to convey the most important things to me, Love, and care, to those I feel the most strongly about. I do better now, than I ever did before, and I am very grateful to have someone amazing in my life, who has, and is... I don't have the right words to describe what she does for me, which makes me a little sad. Maybe we should just communicate with inarticulate sounds, rather than language :P

As in the other thread, I suppose Saturn is sitting there, depreciating your sense of communication, Mercury. Just generally telling you how not up to scratch anything you write or say is, making it seem worth less. The same is probably true for our Saturn opposite Moon, Saturnine. Saturn is sitting there, telling you how rubbish, pointless, irrational, and just plain silly our emotions are, that they aren't worth as much and are not so beneficial. Perhaps it is more complicated, in that involving that square/semisquare with Mercury along with the opposition to Moon. So that Saturn tells us our communication is just not good enough, and then goes and scolds us when we get upset over it. Even though I struggle with Moon Mercury aspect. I have the Square, yours is a 135 degree though I am unsure what that angle is called. I just find it hard to explain how I am feeling.

You really nailed it with the devaluing of validity and significance, of anything Saturn has managed to dominate negatively. It is a description that should be referenced by anyone who looks at Saturn touching planets.

- Chris

posted January 09, 2013 09:47 AM            

My Mercury is parallel Saturn, but they are not tied by aspect natally.

But here's the thing, my 3rd house ruler is the Moon and it's (widely) opposite Saturn, so I think that may be the real reason I experience the same thing.

Transiting Saturn is exactly conjunct my natal Mercury right now, at 10° Scorpio.
Mercury is my chart ruler and the dispositor of my Moon and South Node, so it's quite a big deal.

I thought it would make me depressed and cynical, but it hasn't - not *really*. I am definitely not in a dreamy or idealistic mood, and I've been sick with the flu and generally lacking energy. But I think I'm in a quite balanced state of mind, no extremes, just a calm approach to things.

Saturn can be harsh, but he wants us to do something with our potential. It's the planet that rules over the physical world. After it comes Uranus which is not tied to the community anymore but to the "outer", collective unconscious. Saturn wants us to get off our but*s and do something. Mercury/Saturn may encourage you to express yourself more, to do something with that voice you have, to share your knowledge, teach others, learn from others.

posted January 09, 2013 10:36 PM            

Thanks for writing. =)

It's a shock for me to learn that some of the people here at LL whom I consider such excellent writers actually feel discomfort with their (high) level of communication.
Seriously, you three are all great writers!

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
It isn't very pleasant, I know that I have and do say things that don't capture how I truly feel some times. Some times conversation can flow easily and naturally, and other times I just don't quite know how to say what I'm thinking or feeling.

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I relate completely...yes, I shouldn't have sounded so negative before...sometimes I do enjoy conversations without having to pick them apart later.

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
I don't regret the things I say, that come out and sound stupid. The things I don't or can't seem to say are what get to me.

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Both are trouble, for me.

It's really weird because from the first post of yours that I read, I thought you had exceptionally fluid communication and a strong ability to put feelings into words.

Like I really didn't expect you to show up here.

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
I do better now, than I ever did before, and I am very grateful to have someone amazing in my life, who has, and is... I don't have the right words to describe what she does for me, which makes me a little sad.

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Congratulations! Is this the girl you've written about before?

I think all people in great relationships have trouble putting it into words. It goes to a place beyond words.

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
As in the other thread, I suppose Saturn is sitting there, depreciating your sense of communication, Mercury. Just generally telling you how not up to scratch anything you write or say is, making it seem worth less.

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That thread got me thinking about Saturn more, and led to me posting this. But you're right...I see how it's useful to have Saturn patrolling Mercury. I did well in school and imagine you did also. So there is an up side...good to keep that in mind.

Thanks

posted January 09, 2013 10:49 PM            

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Transiting Saturn is exactly conjunct my natal Mercury right now, at 10° Scorpio.
Mercury is my chart ruler and the dispositor of my Moon and South Node, so it's quite a big deal.

I thought it would make me depressed and cynical, but it hasn't - not *really*. I am definitely not in a dreamy or idealistic mood, and I've been sick with the flu and generally lacking energy. But I think I'm in a quite balanced state of mind, no extremes, just a calm approach to things.

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Hope you feel better soon!

That calm approach of yours is very soothing. I'm really happy for you that you are experiencing this...and happy for us that we get to read your comments

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Saturn can be harsh, but he wants us to do something with our potential. It's the planet that rules over the physical world. After it comes Uranus which is not tied to the community anymore but to the "outer", collective unconscious. Saturn wants us to get off our but*s and do something. Mercury/Saturn may encourage you to express yourself more, to do something with that voice you have, to share your knowledge, teach others, learn from others.

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Good point...copied the whole thing because I think it was worth repeating...the pressure isn't there to make us implode but to go further in life. Trying to get that to stick in my head.

'Would write more, but I'd just be agreeing with you over and over, and I guess that can get boring.

Cheers, & thanks for your input

posted January 10, 2013 01:51 AM            

Natally BOTH my Saturn and Mercury are in Taurus but too far off from each other to make a conjunction.

posted January 10, 2013 02:21 AM            

My Saturn is in Pisces and sits in my 3rd house. Trines my Scorpio Mercury in the 11th.

I always feel I so desperately want to communicate my deep and profound thoughts and ideas, especially about the arts and writing, to people in my social circle. I want to make an impact on my social circle with the way I write and talk... but from childhood experiences and an inborn atypical maturity/giftedness of thought I actually suffer from my intelligence and just feel like the way I express myself is SO hard for some people to absorb if they don't carry depth within that's characteristic of Saturine and Piscean people.

I also almost always doubt myself intellectually and feel very stupid. I have bad test anxiety. Yet all my teachers concur I have higher grades than all my peers. What gives... Also similarly to you I have felt regret saying certain things, I also have the issue of having anxiety about stuff I've said from even days prior, wondering if I sounded weird or dumb or whatever.

posted January 10, 2013 07:38 AM            

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Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
All (not exaggerating) the best historians & philosophy students from my university have Merc/Saturn aspects; ridiculously good.

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posted January 10, 2013 07:46 AM            

I can imagine it must be hard for you...I was really shocked to learn how young you are, because you are crazy-smart.

When I was young, I also had trouble finding kids my own age who could understand my ideas...I remember my frustration. But you are smarter than I was...I couldn't write as well as you do when I was your age. Hmmm, still can't, actually.

posted January 10, 2013 09:06 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Even negative aspects?

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Oh yeah.

The best historian (specialized in Ancient Rome) has Merc sq Saturn,2° orb.
Not even Merc oppo Uranus exact person,3rd smartest person in the world,by Mensa (and boy,he has one spectacular Mercury) can match his brain magnitude. Insane.

posted January 10, 2013 09:47 AM            

Basically, it went like that tumblr/facebook meme where the boy says hi, the girl says "Bye, I have a boyfriend" and then the guy says "I said hi, not sleep with with me"

posted January 10, 2013 10:30 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:

I was an English major, I could get an A+ on a paper and still be sad that I didn't manage to say what I wanted to say.

And I do feel lonely, because it's like I can never communicate where I am coming from exactly.

Once I had my handwriting analyzed by a professional graphologist. One of the first things out of her mouth was, "You regret most of what you say, always walking away and wishing you didn't say anything." True!

Anyone else like that?

Saturn is squaring my Saturn-Mercury opposition now, that's real fun.

I will regret posting this, but I'm trying to train myself to relax about letting things stand.

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Its okay I have mercury square saturn. I always an censoring myself. I am a song writer so you can just imagine how hard of a time that is for me. It takes me extra long to get something out, but I guess when it does it is polished. I edit things I post on here CONSTANTLY because I find better words to use LATER on, or think that what I say doesn't make sense. It's the aspect I think I struggle the most with. Mercury doesn't make too many easy aspects for me natally. I feel your pain lol I took advanced placement English in high school. If I had taken post secondary, I would have continued with English. I love writing more than I do talking. Often times I have to write out on paper things I want to tell someone so that I can see it and then I try to remember those exact words when I speak to the person. It seems to help a bit.

I have one trine with Mercury and Uranus. Things like racism, homophobia, all that bothers me.

posted January 10, 2013 11:31 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
sweet-scorpion,

I can imagine it must be hard for you...I was really shocked to learn how young you are, because you are crazy-smart.

When I was young, I also had trouble finding kids my own age who could understand my ideas...I remember my frustration. But you are smarter than I was...I couldn't write as well as you do when I was your age. Hmmm, still can't, actually.

Fortunately we have the internet now, so you can hang out with old people like me and get feedback from all kinds of people who value your mind. I hope you will think of us when you get down, not the people who can't fathom your depth at all.

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Thanks Faith. That means so much to me. I really appreciate you saying that. I feel that online communications have truly helped me find others who can understand my more advanced ideas somewhat better.

posted January 10, 2013 11:41 AM            

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Originally posted by sand:
^that's a Leo trait. I am never wrong. just kidding!

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posted January 11, 2013 10:36 AM            

You're most welcome! I feel bad for you because I know how hard it can be to self-validate when you are in a school that isn't playing to your strengths but maybe trying to squash your genius by forcing you to do tasks way beneath your skill level (and dignity, IMHO.) My husband is extremely smart, and he failed or almost failed most of his high school classes. Then he graduated second in his class from college. The difference? In college he was doing what he loved and wanted to do.

I have no doubt that you will excel in whatever you apply yourself to. And sorry if I sound mischievous, but sometimes school really isn't worth applying oneself to.

There was an article I read somewhere that said that the "C" students actually go furthest in business. Apparently they are the ones who, from an early age, felt okay with deciding how much effort a task really warranted from them.

@ lazyscarecrow

I always love your posts! Really, I enjoy reading your comments 100% of the time.

'Definitely have "been there, done that," with having misperceptions of where I stand with people.

Sometimes I have assumed people hated me because some minor thing happened that triggered my whole self-doubt complex. But really, it wasn't them at all. People have been baffled by my reactions...I don't get mad, I get really insecure. Usually I appear so confident that I can intimidate people just with my "air," so when that collapses, people are like, "Ummm... did something happen to you in your childhood to make you this way...?"

I've heard that enough that I realize I must be a little different in how I take things to heart. (And I don't think it was my childhood, btw. It might just be my sucky chart.)

posted January 11, 2013 10:43 AM            

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Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Oh yeah.

The best historian (specialized in Ancient Rome) has Merc sq Saturn,2° orb.
Not even Merc oppo Uranus exact person,3rd smartest person in the world,by Mensa (and boy,he has one spectacular Mercury) can match his brain magnitude. Insane.

He's a walking archive. The precision with which he uses words in his essays have my Virgo Merc spinning in all the good ways
I once bought a peplum dress and said I liked the feeling of the Roman it summons. And the other gal says : Whaaaat,Roman chicks don't do that style (in the voice of Joan Rivers) and I responded : Caesar likes them b!tches in peplum And he just looked at me ready to explain that Caesar,in fact,doesn't them that way and that peplum is actually a derivation of a Greek word... And only later that day,he said to me - Ok,I see what you meant : he can be 100% in the subject,24/7,unrelenting and bit on a clumsy side when it comes to social interaction with mere mortals,nevertheless,he's cute as hell! (not to mention interesting)

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Sigh...you make me wish I was back in college again. I loved being around brilliant people.

So you have a genius in your class...do you go to Harvard?

I just realized my husband has Mercury square Saturn and he's one of the smartest people I ever met. He can build or fix virtually anything.

I was telling SaturnineMoth on another forum that he memorized the entire Shakespeare play Romeo & Juliet in his early 20's. He also memorized other books. His father was a school superintendent...he'd bring my husband into classes. Hubby would ask everyone one at a time for their phone number and after the whole class gave their numbers, he would recite everyone's number back to them.

posted January 11, 2013 10:50 AM            

That's great that you are musician, though! And I know what you mean...it's almost good that you feel the challenge of getting everything just right, you can end up with something more polished.

And I also edit here constantly.

@Jessica

I'm happy for you that you don't have to worry about this. Now I'm wondering if that's common for the conjunction...maybe I will pose that question to the LL community soon, or serendipitously a bunch of Mercury-Saturn people will show up here to chime in on the matter.

You've said elsewhere that you can seem like a Capricorn...you are Cap rising, maybe?

I was actually wondering that, before I knew your sign. I agree, you seem Cappy.

Thanks, everyone, for talking with me about this.

posted January 11, 2013 11:06 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:

@Jessica

I'm happy for you that you don't have to worry about this. Now I'm wondering if that's common for the conjunction...maybe I will pose that question to the LL community soon, or serendipitously a bunch of Mercury-Saturn people will show up here to chime in on the matter.

You've said elsewhere that you can seem like a Capricorn...you are Cap rising, maybe?

I was actually wondering that, before I knew your sign. I agree, you seem Cappy.

Thanks, everyone, for talking with me about this.

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Really? Am surprised you guessed that...

Yup, am cap rising