posted April 05, 2013 04:48 PM            

It's a bit like.. testing? But I don't see Scorpio energy being that way cause usually with Pluto it's either yes or no right from the start.. depends on other influences of course.

posted April 05, 2013 05:25 PM            

I'm very wary of my bfs, and am very cautious when it comes to relationships. Having said that, it takes a long time for me to really like someone and want to be with them. In essence, he has to 'earn' my love by showing me he's responsible and decent. Essentially, he's really earning my trust (I equate love with trust; I can't have one without the other).

Doux Reve alluded to 'testing'. I'd consider it testing, yes. Not by testing people's emotional limits or anything, but basically observing someone to see if we're on the same page.

posted April 05, 2013 08:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StelliumH6:
What sign/planet connections, houses, and aspects really like someone because in their mind that second person has earned their love?
Does that make sense?
I am not sure if this "earned love" sits well with me - would like your take on it.

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I'm not sure we mean the same thing by "earned love."

To me love is earned by being loving and true. I like that myself, I don't want to think someone is only grudgingly with me, I want to believe I make his or her life more wonderful with my presence, otherwise I'd reject the love which I'd consider cheap and unworthy. Likewise, my love isn't cheap either and I love those worth loving, not those who have no concern for me other than how they can take advantage of me or take their hostilities out on me. My Leonine (from my Leo ascendant) self-respect demands that my love be earned and that people desire my love because I'm worthy of it rather than some charity case (and I could even feel insulted by "pity love," that is unearned love as I think of it).

posted April 06, 2013 09:28 AM            

I've counseled way too many young women who have been told that they haven't earned their man's love because they haven't delivered on the booty call. It's sad.

posted April 06, 2013 10:03 AM            

Maybe what people really mean when they say you've earned their love, is that you earned their trust and now they know they can count on you. Either that, or they feel obliged to you for some reason. In which case they're talking about a sense of duty rather then love.

posted April 06, 2013 10:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
I can understand earned trust, but not really earned love. Love just is, and comes when it comes whether the person 'deserves' it or not. Trust, however does need to be built up over time.

Maybe what people really mean when they say you've earned their love, is that you earned their trust and now they know they can count on you. Either that, or they feel obliged to you for some reason. In which case they're talking about a sense of duty rather then love.

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No, trust and obligation are different. I love those worth loving, and want to be loved because I'm worth loving. How do I define worth? By how one makes me feel, and I'd want the one who felt love for me to feel happy when I was present, too (it should be blindingly obvious that I don't mean "the moment the bliss stops the love stops" but speaking in more general terms, and how the happiness is worth each other's BS even if there are bad days). I'm not interested in being loved by someone who feels I add nothing good or valuable (meant in happiness, not monetary value) to their life, in fact I might consider it condescending if someone loved me despite that I did not make him or her glad to be alive (or at least add something good to it that inspires smiles, warm fuzzies, etc).

posted April 07, 2013 03:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
No, trust and obligation are different. I love those worth loving, and want to be loved because I'm worth loving. How do I define worth? By how one makes me feel, and I'd want the one who felt love for me to feel happy when I was present, too (it should be blindingly obvious that I don't mean "the moment the bliss stops the love stops" but speaking in more general terms, and how the happiness is worth each other's BS even if there are bad days). I'm not interested in being loved by someone who feels I add nothing good or valuable (meant in happiness, not monetary value) to their life, in fact I might consider it condescending if someone loved me despite that I did not make him or her glad to be alive (or at least add something good to it that inspires smiles, warm fuzzies, etc).

But it might help facilitate communication if you could explain how "love just is." That is, how do you choose someone worthy of this gift? Is it completely random for you, or is it that they're cute (that is, lust that might grow into more), or something they do, or what?

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Obviously my statements touched on some personal issues of yours. Of course trust and obligation are different, and I thought I’d made that distinction in my post. Feeling obliged to someone is not love, nor is trust. That being said, building up trust with someone is extremely important in any relationship.

What I meant was, when someone says that you have ‘earned their love‘, what they probably mean is that you have earned their trust and now they feel free to open up their vulnerability to you. And that this is good because building up trust is good for relationships.

The more negative alternative to this is that, rather then trust, some people might simply mean the feel obliged to you when they say ‘you’ve earned my love’. As in you have done good by them, so now they will do good by you. Sure, it’s good to keep our word to people, and show loyalty. I’m all for it being a Capricorn. It’s not the same thing as love though.

I do think that sometimes love just is. Not just talking about romantic relationships here either. I’m talking about actual real love for a person. It thinks it’s possible to love someone even if they are messed up and not perfect. Does that mean you’ll let them destroy your life? Heck no. It’s possible to say ‘I love you, but I can’t be close to you when you are harmful to me’. You can keep a distance from someone, and maintain your self-respect, while still loving them and wishing the best for them, and praying for them. Even the parents of murders still love their children, they might hate what they did, but the love for the actual person never goes away.

posted April 07, 2013 03:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
My Sun & Venus are 3H Libra.

And please keep in mind that different people tend to view the same words differently (which I believe must be happening in this thread), which is why it's best to explain (preferably with examples).

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posted April 07, 2013 05:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Obviously my statements touched on some personal issues of yours.

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No, it did not touch on "personal issues." Can't I speak openly and ask honest questions without people getting defensive or imagining some dire "tone" to my voice like I'm upset or disapproving or whatever? It's very frustrating.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Of course trust and obligation are different, and I thought I’d made that distinction in my post

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Yes, you did. And you also said, "Maybe what people really mean when they say you've earned their love..." I'm telling you no, in my case, I don't mean "trust" and "obligation" as you guessed. And, as you say, it's not the same thing as love. That's why I did not mistake them, nor am I mistaking "trust" and "obligation" for love right now.

Again, just to be sure I'm clear this time: I do NOT mean "trust" or "obligation" as you've described, I mean "love." Trust and obligation often go with love, but not always, and I know the difference.

Love is more sharing happiness, smiling when you see someone (and meaning it, not just a polite smile), people you like experiencing life with because sharing it makes it better for both (or all) of you, better than it would be for any of you had you been by yourself. None of them would ever tell me, "You're very dull and ho-hum, but I love you." They don't TOLERATE me, they ENJOY having me around, and I enjoy them. Sure, there are bad days in which it becomes more tolerance than enjoyment, but it's usually just temporary.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
It thinks it’s possible to love someone even if they are messed up and not perfect.

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Agreed. Actually, I think I'd be a bit intimidated by someone I thought of as perfect.

That's also why I included this:

quote:

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it should be blindingly obvious that I don't mean "the moment the bliss stops the love stops" but speaking in more general terms, and how the happiness is worth each other's BS even if there are bad days.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
You can keep a distance from someone, and maintain your self-respect, while still loving them and wishing the best for them

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I know love like this as well, love with neither trust nor obligation. Though despite the lack of obligation, I've sometimes done nice things for them (thinking specifically of my 'rents) "just because anyway" as I love them, though they don't love me, and I don't trust them any further than I can throw them. That said, I did share a happy day with my mom when I visited her a couple of years ago, though I felt neither trust nor obligation toward her after.

posted April 07, 2013 05:31 AM            

Their mom was grateful for the help and invited me to see Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince as it opened about half-way between the birthdays. After which we all had pizza and she and I had a conversation that went from the Potter series and why certain literary elements don't work in film and vice versa and then talked of other movies. Then she asked me to see The Alamo (on dvd) for my opinion on it, and also because she (as a history teacher) was curious about how well I learned history as an unschooler (I told her I learned more in a couple of years on my own then I did in all the years of schooling), and she loved the trivia I was able to share about the characters in the movie (and how real life differed significantly from it, among other things) and that led to talking about other historical bits which fascinated me in turn, stuff I hadn't known. She also mentioned seeing me and someone else at the fitness center we both belonged to (and commiserated on their blaring FOX News all the time in the machine room) which led to us sharing about our lives when she'd seen me at a kickboxing class about a year prior. And in the talking of all this we also joked, and she commented on how I knew so much about "important stuff" that she didn't understand how I knew so much about Disney characters (which she hates), or Transformers (I admitted I knew almost nothing of that and was learning as fast as I could to get her son's party right, luckily I had geeky friends who knew all about it, plus I know how to find d-bases on the internet, like Transformers Wiki in this case). And it was so enjoyable that we continued to get together, looking forward to it more and more. And the kids thought I was the coolest babysitter as well as loving the birthday parties.

Meanwhile we both have problems and stress. I don't feel right talking about her problems so I won't, only that they were as serious as mine. And as for me I had to deal with a landlord who saw the positive changes I'd made to the home I rented and decided to sell it out from under me, which was its own drama but came to a head when I (having found out no bank would give a loan unless it was bought "as is" and needed to be demolished back when I considered his offer to buy it myself, his saying I could get loan as a single woman buying my first home, which he turned out to be wrong on, at least in this case) refused to lie for him and the agency he was using. I was warned the first time I corrected the realtor, and 2nd time he gave me minimum time to get out.

As it so happened the mom had her own home (with "bad memories") on the market and was hoping we could get a big enough place (which we could do with our combined incomes) and though I wasn't actually ready for it I had no real choice, so we moved into an apartment on October 31. Even then, because I was nervous about it, my name wasn't on the lease as I wanted to be able to bail if I must (and perhaps she agreed because she loved having the power to evict me if she thought it wasn't working, too, but I'm ok with that). Yet we mixed together well and that Christmas was really special with all 4 of us bonding together.

And she'd done a history thesis back in college about a Greek writer and gave me the book so we could talk about it as she was "starved for intelligent conversation" about it and wanted to share the details of the thesis she was proud of. So I read it pretty fast, and not only was I able to keep up and understand what she had to say I had a lot of my own ideas, and furthermore was able to compare & contrast with Machiavelli and say why I believed Machiavelli had read him before writing The Prince. And meanwhile she saw the kids happy and I was able to talk to them about the things that interested them as well, and in short I made their lives happier...as they did mine. She told me later that after we'd talked about her college thesis and everything else that she knew then that she could spend her life with me.

And there was drama, and the kids (especially the girl) faced some problems over our living arrangement and a few people were trying to get the mother fired and us all evicted, but it just made us stronger. I was very touched when the kids stood by me and were very much against me leaving when I made the offer as it would've stopped the drama. By then I'd become worth the risks and drama they endured because I made their life that much better, that much happier, and they did the same for me.

And that's an example of what I mean by earning each other's love. We didn't love each other just because, but because of how we made each other feel, life multiplied by the power of 2 (and 4), and we stood by each other when the chips were down.