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Author Topic:   How hard are hard aspects?
Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 02:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They are all hard aspects. But how hard are they? Are squares more difficult than oppositions? and oppositions more difficult that conjunctions as a rule? or does it depend on the nature of planets involved?


1- planet A ( say it's Sun) is squaring planet B ( Saturn),planet B trine planet C (Venus) and planet C is opposing planet D (Moon): is this more difficult than

2- planet A conjunct planet B,planet B sextile planet C,and planet C squares planet D.

Is there something that is called 'maturity of planets' in Western astrology? I've read that hard aspects are energy that is better integrated in the personality with time,as the individual matures with age.However,maturity isn't exclusively limited to age. Was pondering on that. What do you think? Do you ever feel that you better handle your oppositions or squares but still have trouble with your conjunctions? That even if you've grown more mature or older the conjunctions are still an unknown energy for you, that you are better acquainted with your squares and oppositions? I feel like it's the case for me. Would like to know what you think

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Snorkel
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posted April 15, 2013 02:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Snorkel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've never heard conjunctions mentioned as hard aspects ever til I started coming here.

They're usually referred to as neutral. Just a blending of the energy of the two planets so that they act as one.

About which is harder, oppositions or squares...good question but I would've sworn I read on Astrodienst forums once that oppositions are worse.

I also don't agree that people definitely grow to handle their hard aspects better as they get older. I've been around enough crappy older people to know that age and supposed "maturity" doesn't guarantee that you're a good person, or that you even really know your head from your a$$, yet either.

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 03:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^^ No, I wasn't talking about being a good person.

Mars conjunction pluto, (let's take this example)is a pretty intense combination to have in a chart, especially if it's in a tight orb.People with this kind of energy don't know what they are capable of unless they face circumstances that bring out the energy that this combination represents. These people may or may not be good people. Depending on their inner nature they WILL exploit this energy to their betterment thus integrating it in their personality to suit their purpose, be it for the good or for the worst. I think it applies for squares and oppositions too, to a certain degree.

That being said, I don't entirely agree to conjunctions being called hard aspects either, but they are certainly not as easy flowing aspects as trines either. Conjunctions,IMO, have a different feel/energy to them.It's more like your destiny is written in the conjunctions.It's just a theory of mine that I have meditated on for quite some time now...

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somethingexcellent
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posted April 15, 2013 03:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hard aspects are invigorating aspects, making the planets excited and energetic with one another...I think they can be difficult to handle, squares and oppositions, in their own ways. And yeah, maturity definitely plays into it. It's really all just like being given a whole bunch of things and learning how to cope, foster, and use.

I have a few squares myself and I don't think they cause me trouble; I've since given up seeing them as hard or challenging. They're all just energies floating around to me...

Any who, I'm kinda unsure what you're asking here. I think that having too much of one thing (whether it's aspects, signs, planetary influence, etc.) will cause more trouble for someone.

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anonymidarkness
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posted April 15, 2013 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don’t know why but I’ve always enjoyed reading descriptions of hard aspects than soft ones.

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 03:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Hard aspects are invigorating aspects, making the planets excited and energetic with one another...I think they can be difficult to handle, squares and oppositions, in their own ways. And yeah, maturity definitely plays into it. It's really all just like being given a whole bunch of things and learning how to cope, foster, and use.

I have a few squares myself and I don't think they cause me trouble; I've since given up seeing them as hard or challenging. They're all just energies floating around to me...

Any who, I'm kinda unsure what you're asking here. I think that having too much of one thing (whether it's aspects, signs, planetary influence, etc.) will cause more trouble for someone.


Sorry if I sounded obtuse, there is some theory flirting in my mind

So you think that conjunctions are difficult aspects?

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Don’t know why but I’ve always enjoyed reading descriptions of hard aspects than soft ones.

Because easy is boring...may be...

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anonymidarkness
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posted April 15, 2013 03:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How close are your conjunctions in that leo stellium?I’ve read that when a planet is within 4 degrees from the sun, the sun dominates that planet and does not allow that planet to express it’s qualities.Your sun is already shining brilliantly in Leo, it may easily dominate your other planets.

My cousin has nearly an exact conjunction between mars and pluto(both in Scorpio) but I’ve never seen her expressing it.Maybe it depends on the house in which the planets form the conjunction.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 15, 2013 03:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a confusion between hard aspects and dynamic aspects.


As a matter of fact the conjunction is not even an aspect (aspect comes from latin: aspicere: to look at something; two planets in aspect look at each other), it is a merging point, as two planets are on the exact same place and combining "forces" (only from the perspective of earth, and actually only observable if two planets are conjunct AND parallel).

hard or dynamic aspects are by no means "bad" aspects; the are just providing more energy, and therefore can get challenging to deal with. But it really depends on what planets are aspecting each other.
Imo the square would be the more challenging aspect because it combines different elements with each other (though the same modality).

Just think of two fixed signs in square, they are both stubborn to do the things THEIR way, in the case of Taurus and Leo for example; one would want to act in an Earthy way, maybe more down to earth, practical, sensual, slow way, while the firesign would get impatient with all that earthiness, maybe even call it a waste of time.

In an oppositions the two signs still want to do things their way, but since the elements are compatible, it might be a bit easier to find a compromise.

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somethingexcellent
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posted April 15, 2013 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Jessica2407: there is some theory flirting in my mind

So you think that conjunctions are difficult aspects?


Ohhhhh theories are excellent! New possible knowledge. I think conjunctions can be either difficult or easy. It depends how they're dealt with honestly, in my opinion. Conjunctions have traits of both difficult aspects (invigoration) and easy aspects (potential). If the person doesn't know or doesn't try to handle the combined planetary energy, it could very well cause tension...

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Snorkel
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posted April 15, 2013 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Snorkel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jessica2407:
^^ No, I wasn't talking about being a good person.

Mars conjunction pluto, (let's take this example)is a pretty intense combination to have in a chart, especially if it's in a tight orb.People with this kind of energy don't know what they are capable of unless they face circumstances that bring out the energy that this combination represents. These people may or may not be good people. Depending on their inner nature they WILL exploit this energy to their betterment thus integrating it in their personality to suit their purpose, be it for the good or for the worst. I think it applies for squares and oppositions too, to a certain degree.

That being said, I don't entirely agree to conjunctions being called hard aspects either, but they are certainly not as easy flowing aspects as trines either. Conjunctions,IMO, have a different feel/energy to them.It's more like your destiny is written in the conjunctions.It's just a theory of mine that I have meditated on for quite some time now...



Age and supposed "maturity" don't guarantee that a person handles their hard aspects better either. I know plenty of older people who don't have a handle on their squares and oppositions, and act accordingly.

You didn't have to explain Mars-Pluto energy to me; I have the square, my mother had the square, and an ex of mine has them conjunct, so I'm familiar with the energy. The ex is almost 50 and I believe he's absolutely aware of what he's capable of and more often than not, uses the Mars-Pluto energy for less than noble purposes in order to benefit himself in some way or other at another person's expense. He basically goes around bullying and emotionally pile-driving people with it. In general though he has the worst chart I've ever seen, nothing but oppositions and squares really. Every chart is just natural inclination, and people can actively choose whether they will just act that way or do better, but more often than not, he chooses not to do better. Even he has made comments before about how he's full of **** and everyone leaves him and how he's fully aware that he's an a**hole...

In general though, conjunctions aren't good, or bad, they're just the two planets acting as one. So of course they aren't as good as a trine - a trine is a soft/positive aspect. A conjunction isn't a positive aspect or a hard one.


quote:
Don’t know why but I’ve always enjoyed reading descriptions of hard aspects than soft ones.

Probably for the same reason people watch car crashes when they pass them on their morning drive, or how newspapers and magazines sell more copies when they have murder stories and other crimes plastered on the covers LOL.

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somethingexcellent
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posted April 15, 2013 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Snorkel: In general though he has the worst chart I've ever seen, nothing but oppositions and squares real

Post it, you have me curious, fellow Air Moon. EDIT: I know someone with a heavily squared and oppositioned chart too, and they're...just a sad person. Sad as in pathetic.

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Snorkel
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posted April 15, 2013 03:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Snorkel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Post it, you have me curious, fellow Air Moon.

Hell no, he has the conjunction in aspect to Uranus, I'm not winding up in pieces in a dumpster somewhere.

I'm fairly certain he probably lurks here on occasion at LEAST, or some of his buddies do. No thankies.

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 03:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
How close are your conjunctions in that leo stellium?I’ve read that when a planet is within 4 degrees from the sun, the sun dominates that planet and does not allow that planet to express it’s qualities.Your sun is already shining brilliantly in Leo, it may easily dominate your other planets.

My cousin has nearly an exact conjunction between mars and pluto(both in Scorpio) but I’ve never seen her expressing it.Maybe it depends on the house in which house the planets form the conjunction.


Ahhhh, this is the perfect example I wanted to hear See,exactly!I think it depends on loads of stuff how a so claimed difficult aspect is actually expressed in a personality.

my leo sun conjunct mercury at 9 degree orb.My Mercury-Venus-Saturn conjunctions and sun conjunct saturn at 4 degree. Do you think even if there is no conjunction between sun with mercury and venus it has a hold over the whole stellium?

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somethingexcellent
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posted April 15, 2013 03:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Snorkel: I'm fairly certain he probably lurks here on occasion at LEAST, or some of his buddies do. No thankies.

What the hell, really? Weirdoooo.

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 03:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
There is a confusion between hard aspects and dynamic aspects.


As a matter of fact the conjunction is not even an aspect (aspect comes from latin: aspicere: to look at something; two planets in aspect look at each other), it is a merging point, as two planets are on the exact same place and combining "forces" (only from the perspective of earth, and actually only observable if two planets are conjunct AND parallel).

hard or dynamic aspects are by no means "bad" aspects; the are just providing more energy, and therefore can get challenging to deal with. But it really depends on what planets are aspecting each other.
Imo the square would be the more challenging aspect because it combines different elements with each other (though the same modality).

Just think of two fixed signs in square, they are both stubborn to do the things THEIR way, in the case of Taurus and Leo for example; one would want to act in an Earthy way, maybe more down to earth, practical, sensual, slow way, while the firesign would get impatient with all that earthiness, maybe even call it a waste of time.

In an oppositions the two signs still want to do things their way, but since the elements are compatible, it might be a bit easier to find a compromise.


Okay, so conjunctions are like the 'fusing' of two planets' energies? There is no each planet tugging on the rope wanting to do what they want? Still I feel with saturn conjunctions he definitely exert a damper effect on the other's planet's energy that may at times feel like a 'punishment' Take for instance venus conjunct saturn? what do you think Ceri?

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Snorkel:
Age and supposed "maturity" don't guarantee that a person handles their hard aspects better either. I know plenty of older people who don't have a handle on their squares and oppositions, and act accordingly.

You didn't have to explain Mars-Pluto energy to me; I have the square, my mother had the square, and an ex of mine has them conjunct, so I'm familiar with the energy. The ex is almost 50 and I believe he's absolutely aware of what he's capable of and more often than not, uses the Mars-Pluto energy for less than noble purposes in order to benefit himself in some way or other at another person's expense. He basically goes around bullying and emotionally pile-driving people with it. In general though he has the worst chart I've ever seen, nothing but oppositions and squares really. Every chart is just natural inclination, and people can actively choose whether they will just act that way or do better, but more often than not, he chooses not to do better. Even he has made comments before about how he's full of **** and everyone leaves him and how he's fully aware that he's an a**hole...

In general though, conjunctions aren't good, or bad, they're just the two planets acting as one. So of course they aren't as good as a trine - a trine is a soft/positive aspect. A conjunction isn't a positive aspect or a hard one.


Probably for the same reason people watch car crashes when they pass them on their morning drive, or how newspapers and magazines sell more copies when they have murder stories and other crimes plastered on the covers LOL.


First off, I know that maturity doesn't necessarily works for every individual who has difficult aspects. There are always exceptions to the rule, that is why the word exception exists in the dictionary I believe. Maturity is not something that is handed down to a person on a silver platter, even if it's handed down some people will not take it!

I wasn't explaining the Mars-Pluto energy to YOU. I used it to explain MYSELF. I have the quincunx,my sister has the square,the wonderful guy in my life has the square too.

I wanted to talk about conjunctions being a difficult aspect by discussing people experiences not from what is written in books or astrology manuals or stuff that you can read on the internet.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 15, 2013 04:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jessica2407:
Okay, so conjunctions are like the 'fusing' of two planets' energies? There is no each planet tugging on the rope wanting to do what they want? Still I feel with saturn conjunctions he definitely exert a damper effect on the other's planet's energy that may at times feel like a 'punishment' Take for instance venus conjunct saturn? what do you think Ceri?

Yes, though the two planets are fused as one, often the outer planet will modify colour the inner planet.

so the Venus will feel more Saturnian, more serious maybe.

If a conjunction feels difficult depends on many things, if there are squares to the conjunction for example and also which planets fuse.
Mars and Saturn usually have a more difficult time fusing than Venus and Jupiter.

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 05:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes, though the two planets are fused as one, often the outer planet will modify colour the inner planet.

so the Venus will feel more Saturnian, more serious maybe.

If a conjunction feels difficult depends on many things, if there are squares to the conjunction for example and also which planets fuse.
Mars and Saturn usually have a more difficult time fusing than Venus and Jupiter.


I agree. I think squares to the conjunctions make it more difficult.

I was thinking conjunction with house rulers that are known to be tacky houses too may be contribute to it being difficult?Conjunctions with house rulers of houses 8 and 12 for instance.Pluto is the natural ruler of the 8th house, neptune is the natural ruler of the 12 house. In Vedic both these houses are considered to be 'dustana' houses. I think each planet has a certain 'astrological weight' to it that constitute both the good and not so good part, I would say that this weight is (may be) judged by the not-so-good-part nature of the planet.These two planets carry with them a certain weight that takes over the other 'benign' (if I may call it so) planet while in a conjunction. The NN and SN are both so powerful elements in a chart, so is Saturn the Lord of Karma and Time. I don't know.It's just something that I have been thinking about.

Venus-Saturn conjunctions are mostly involve with lessons in love,difficult relationships,heart break, but it mostly is a good aspect to have if you want a steadfast, reliable, good, serious relationship. However in synastry reports, I've read that a saturn venus conjunction doesn't indicate romantic involvement!

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somethingexcellent
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posted April 15, 2013 05:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Ceridwen: Yes, though the two planets are fused as one, often the outer planet will modify colour the inner planet.

This is what I've always wondered!!!!!! I've Mars is conjunct Uranus, it's called a Uranian Mars, but if Neptune is conjunct Uranus, is it a Uranian Neptune? Or what if Venus is conjunct the Sun? The Sun becomes Venusian...but does the Venus become Solar?

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 06:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^^ You are a rebel who likes to dream...


I have mercury conjunct sun,mercury conjunct venus exact,mercury conjunct saturn.saturn conjunct venus,saturn conjunct sun. All these planets energies going on a loop. Is it one big solar stellium?

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anonymidarkness
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posted April 15, 2013 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jessica2407:
Ahhhh, this is the perfect example I wanted to hear See,exactly!I think it depends on loads of stuff how a so claimed difficult aspect is actually expressed in a personality.

my leo sun conjunct mercury at 9 degree orb.My Mercury-Venus-Saturn conjunctions and sun conjunct saturn at 4 degree. Do you think even if there is no conjunction between sun with mercury and venus it has a hold over the whole stellium?


I think the most powerful planet in the stellium would have some influence over the stellium but I think it depends upon lot of things. I have similar type of stellium although in pisces.My Sun conjuncts mercury,saturn with less than 1 degree orb and conjuncts venus with a 9 degree orb but I think my Sun won’t have as much influence as yours as it is in 4th where it feels uncomfortable(from what I’ve read), is in pisces where it is weak and it is also in opposition with Chiron and squares pluto. Yours is in 7th(?) which allows Sun to shine and is also in Leo. I am not sure about that uranus squaring your leo stellium though, would it feel like an opposition due to uranus ruling aqua ?

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anonymidarkness
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posted April 15, 2013 06:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
This is what I've always wondered!!!!!! I've Mars is conjunct Uranus, it's called a Uranian Mars, but if Neptune is conjunct Uranus, is it a Uranian Neptune? Or what if Venus is conjunct the Sun? The Sun becomes Venusian...but does the Venus become Solar?

Aqua moon in action!!

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Jessica2407
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posted April 15, 2013 06:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
I think the most powerful planet in the stellium would have some influence over the stellium but I think it depends upon lot of things. I have similar type of stellium although in pisces.My Sun conjuncts mercury,saturn with less than 1 degree orb and conjuncts venus with a 9 degree orb but I think my Sun won’t have as much influence as yours as it is in 4th where it feels uncomfortable(from what I’ve read), is in pisces where it is weak and it is also in opposition with Chiron and squares pluto. Yours is in 7th(?) which allows Sun to shine and is also in Leo. I am not sure about that uranus squaring your leo stellium though, would it feel like an opposition due to uranus ruling aqua ?

So in yours, Venus looks like the powerful planet (in pisces right?) I guess the powerful planet in my stellium is Sun since it is in domicile. I think however, it's pretty afflicted too.

My 7th house is cancer.Sun is in 7th house, 1 degree in Leo. sun conjuncts mercury at 9 degree orb, conjuncts saturn at 4 degree,sq chiron exact,sq MC at 7 degree andddd opposes ASC.Yet according to astro Venus and Sun are my 1st and 2nd most dominant planets respectively.I still can't figure out why they say Venus is my most dominant, I do relate to it a lot though but I want to be able to prove it in my chart.

Uranus is exalted in scorp right? supposed to be in a good position.I don't feel it as an opposition though.I read the square descriptions, I relate to them.

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