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Author Topic:   Adolf Hitler-Libra Rising or Scorpio Rising
MorteImperator
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posted April 23, 2013 01:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I was first getting into deeper levels of Astrology, I saw arguments about whether Hitler's Ascendant was Libra or Scorpio.

I was initially on the side he had to be a Scorpio Ascendant because he was a violent lunatic warmonger who was responsible for the death of millions and millions of people.

In fact within the Astrology community, some groups and people are really insistent on Adolf Hitler being a Scorpio Ascendant because of the reasons I mentioned above. One example of a website.
http://www.librarising.com/astrology/celebs/adolfhitler.html

Here is an online argument in which people over his ascendant.
http://www.experts123.com/q/would-you-say-that-adolf-hitler-matches-more-a-libra-rising-or-scorpio-rising.html

A few comments supporting my initial opinion.

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Walters:
There's very little question that Hitler indeed had a Scorpio Rising.

The old Libra Rising assertion comes from a birth time rounded off to the nearest half hour (6:30pm) which was a common practice, and sometimes still is.

Although it's too simplistic to say that "Libras don't kill" (in fact, there are more killers under Sun in Libra than Sun in Scorpio, the latter of which has LESS killers per capita than almost any sun sign -- contrary to its repuation) but Rising Sign is a different animal entirely.

Libra Rising tend to lean left politically (in fact, every US president in the twentieth century except one has been Libra Rising). But Scorpio Rising, though brilliantly intelligent, is fundamentally fascistic in nature. It is THE astrological component of the dictator (nearly every truly infamous dictator on record has been Scorpio Rising), an astounding number of lust murderers and serial killers are Scorpio Rising, and even most valid diva movie bitchess (Davis, Crawford, etc...) which also explains why Hitler had Bette Davis' face!!

Ascendant, of course, is very physical.

What more, all three antiChrists as named by Nostradamus were Scorpio Rising/Moon in Capricorn... I've known a few. It fits... They're clever, predatory, totally amoral beneath their pretenses, and lust for Machievellian schemes and destruction.


Another examples from the same link.

quote:
Originally posted by Smiley:

Scorpio rising because he was a torturer. With his sick perversion there is no way he could have been a Libra. Libra is all about balance and would have been too indecisive about hurting others.

However after reading The Rising Signs by Jeanne Avery and her comment about Adolf Hitler being a Libra Rising, I began to change my mind. Now trust me Avery's books is some of the most inaccurate sources I ever read on Birth Profiles for famous celebrities. Some of the times she puts can easily bee seen as inaccurate or speculated if you do further research on the internet. But her statement on Htler really intrigued me enough to do research. Here it is (its two pages).
http://books.google.com/books?id=9KttZ2zqOE0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Rising+Signs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6bt2Uer9B-j_4AOy84CQAw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Adolf%20Hitler&f=false

So I decided to do further research. I went to Astro-Databank and it turns out Adolf Hitler was one of the cases in which she was 100% correct for judging a famous person's Ascendant.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hitler,_Adolf

Not only does it confirm Hitler as a Libra Rising but its rated AA meaning the information is taken directly from Hitler's Baptism Certificate.

So I did further research and it turns out...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1091768/Hitler-perfect-boss-Former-maid-breaks-silence-charming-dictator.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/3547047/Adolf-Hitlers-maid-says-Nazi-was-charming-to-work-for.html

Hitler is MORE CHARMING than we give him credit for!

I debated with Doomlord and when I told him Hitler was a Taurus with a moon in Capricorn, he immediately responded Hitler's definitely a Libra Riser.

I then began to do more research.

Now was Hitler violent and nasty (traits frequently associated with Scorpio)?

In modern American society he would most definitely be a sociopath and madman with his racist beliefs and warmongering.

The thing is that Hitler WAS RAISED in a very racist and militaristic society. All his violent acts including the Holocaust was acceptable in Germany during the time especially among the rightwing conservatives of German society.

For example, Stauffenberg (who I showed in my thread about Virgo Rising appearance) was a fascist and a warmonger himself who believed Germany was destined to conquer Europe and the world. He felt Poles were subhumans who are best enslaved and looked very down on non-Germans save for the French and British (who he felt were in the end still inferior to Germans). This is the very guy who tried to assassinate Hitler but he's almost as bigoted as Hitler himself.

A lot of the acts Hitler encouraged prior to the Final Solution have been committed against the Jewish population of Germany for centuries. Mass beatings, arson, and rapes aimed at Jews have been part of German culture before the rise of the Nazis.

The Germans were ultra-nationalistic to the point they spat down on other White people and felt they needed to be guided by the German civilization. The exceptions were the French, British, Northern Europeans, and Americans (who most Germans still viewed as inferior).

While its true Warmongering and Militarism is associated with Scorpio Ascendant, Hitler came from a Militaristic culture himself that were among the most Militaristic and warlike civilizations that ever existed in Earth.

The angry eyes people try to credit with Adolf Hitler as the reason he is Scorpio Rising has less to do with Scorpio and more to do with the background he was from. An war veteran who was angry at Germany's defeat and furthermore at the German government for neglecting to take care of its vets?

I am very surprised people always refer to Hitler's eyes as Demonic but never bothered to show the angry faces of other homeless poor German veterans from the same period.

All in all I hold the opinion whatever Scorpionic Traits Hitler had have far less to do with Scorpio and more to do with his cultural background and life experiences. The fact the people of Germany loved him prior to the war and probably still would have continued to had Germany won the war or at least the Nazi regimes lasted long enough to transform into another civilization combined with his love for the arts prior to becoming Fuhrer is more than enough proof he was probably a Libra Riser (and was probably viewed as the Libran charmer back at the time).

The only reason people associate him as a Scorpio Riser is because we are judging him under 21st Century morality and norms.

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peachbeigeblue
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posted April 23, 2013 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for peachbeigeblue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I personally know identical twins with Taurus/Cap/Libra big 3 and the younger one, by 20 minutes is Taurus/Cap/Scorp.

I believe it's Scorpio from taking into consideration the differences between their vibes in appearance.

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KarkaQueen
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posted April 23, 2013 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libra

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KarkaQueen
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posted April 23, 2013 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libra

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KarkaQueen
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posted April 23, 2013 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libra

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted April 23, 2013 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scorpio. Why there's even a debate on this is way beyond me

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PixieJane
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posted April 23, 2013 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For what it's worth Hitler had a hard time with all the killing. It was said that when he was driven through bombed Paris (or some such city) he had his windows blocked so he couldn't see the destruction and the dead still in the streets. Hitler was also a vegetarian (linked as many vegetarians like to deny it), but at one point (I think before he actually was the Fuhrer) a German matron who made him a meat dish considered it a grievous insult to refuse to eat her cooking and he caved (perhaps for his immediate health ) and that strikes me as more Libra than Scorpio (also, I think he was a bit indecisive about his vegetarianism in the first place, another Libra trait).

OTOH, I read somewhere (don't know how accurate it was) that he was into feces in a sexual way, and that definitely sounds more Scorpio than Libra to me. Certain purges strike me as Scorpio rather than Libra as well for both their ruthlessness and their lack of fairness (essentially people he knew and presumably had favored were executed based on mere suspicion). Oh, and while Libra can be diplomatic & charming, Scorpios can hypnotize the masses much better, they sometimes have a very magnetic quality about them that can make them go far in business, crime, and politics (and religion). And the reasons he gave in his speeches for acting as he did also taste more Scorpio to me than Libra.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Judging by how Germany reacted, I think he is definitely Libra rising. He got Germany into a state of war and iron resolve. The superior military might reminds me of Mars and Aries more than it does Venus and Taurus. Aries is on his descendant. He has Leo on his MC, which means he had a lot of influence on the people around him, since it is sun ruled. Leo MC can mean fame and power for whomever has it.

Isn't his ascendant within the last degrees of Libra? This is why you see so much Scorpio in him. Scorpio mostly covers his first house while Libra most covers his twelfth. So, you would see more of the Scorpio since first house is supposed to be how one is perceived by others, but Libra is the primary influence since this sign is on the ascending degree.

Hitler was generally liked by those in his own party, although he did have some enemies. This suggests a Venus ruled individual. His world became war and this is where his Aries Descendant comes into play since he mostly interacted with others in this scenario trying to dominate other countries and empower Germans across Europe (Leo MC.)

So, I am convinced he has Libra rising and Scorpio has more influence because he is a late Libra Ascendant rather than an early one.

His Ascendant progressed into Scorpio early, also.

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Kerosene
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posted April 23, 2013 07:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This ^

Also he had his libra asc 26 degrees so most of his first house was in scorpio anyways.

Hitler was a complete Venusian. He wanted to erratic anyone who was not Aryan. Even to in this day Aryans are put on a pedestal for being the most beautiful etc. Hitler was also an a talented artist and bitter because of his rejections.

Saturn on hid MC is the reason we see him as cold and calculating, but he was very charismatic man.

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Nine
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posted April 23, 2013 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the historical record, before the concentration camps, & before Barbarossa, we know he begged the British to bring peace to Europe.

I say Libra rising.

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EmpressMendez
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posted April 23, 2013 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EmpressMendez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libra makes much more sense. He can conquer easily without appearing to.

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Nine
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posted April 23, 2013 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

quote:
Even to in this day Aryans are put on a pedestal for being the most beautiful etc.

You realize that both Aryans & Caucasians exists today, and neither group of people would be mistaken for Northern European - blond hair, blue eyes, fair skin.

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Kerosene
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posted April 23, 2013 08:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nine:

You realize that both Aryans & Caucasians exists today, and neither group of people would be mistaken for Northern European - blond hair, blue eyes, fair skin.

Well I ment hitlers ideal of an aryan (blonde hair and blue eyes)
I'm aware that aryans do not have to be blonde with blue eyes.
Many of this propaganda posters were full of people with these features.

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Ami Anne
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posted April 23, 2013 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He is not attractive enough for a Libra rising imo

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hikoro
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posted April 23, 2013 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hikoro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
def. libra rising.
as to attractiveness, there are plenty of libra risings that are not good-looking at all...
just like with all ascendants.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He does have the square from Saturn to Venus and this would take away from his balance...physically and with his temperament.

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SaturnineMoth
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posted April 23, 2013 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaturnineMoth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Uranus in the 12th, 7th house Venus cnj Mars, Capricorn Moon cnj Jupiter in the 3rd, Saturn in the 10th... I think his Libra Ascendant is accurate and explains his personality chillingly well, actually. Moon Jupiter in opposition to a 9th house Chiron... 9th house of diversity... philosophies, morals... His Moon-Jupiter conjunction is extremely telling, the romantic views on how he could improve the lives of everyone, create this ideal society (contacts to Taurus), Saturn-MC connection being his road to selling that dream to others, and his intense hatred of foreigners (9th house). Uranus ruling his 4th house in 12th house Libra, the best aspects it makes are to the 10th. His personality was geared toward blaming those who were not of his kinsfolk for his own struggles, and his dreams of what he deemed a better life. It's sickening but definitely him... Switching that to Scorpio would make everything a lot less clear, and a lot of those connections don't read the same in different houses... If his MC was Virgo and Mercury the ruler, I feel he would have been more talk and less action. Pluto doesn't seem to work as his chart ruler either... at least not for what I can see here, and compared to Venus (cnj Mars exact)... that's a powerful aspect, it defines him very well.

I agree with what is known as his correct birth time because it makes sense looking at his chart and his evolution into the leader (monster) he was from as humble a beginning as he had, and with the interest he had in art.

This isn't to say he has no Scorpio influence, obviously the man had a good deal of his 1st house ruled by Pluto, and it would help define his interest in the occult since it is cnj Neptune in the 8th house, along with the 12th house Uranus, it shows his deep personal interest in those unconventional sciences and how they became his "hobby", Pisces 5th house cusp. But, for all I do see or understand of astrology, he appears to <me> to be a Libra Rising. I'd put my money there, but really it matters not, a monster is a monster no matter what Ascendant he has... ~___~;

Himmler's chart is extremely telling too... he was all about the experimenting, climbing whatever ladder was before him/success/fame, and his own twisted goals... Hitler did it because of fear and hatred, but Himmler's 4th and 9th house have nothing to do with his reasoning for participating... not at all, the chart really speaks of someone who enjoyed the fast track to success of carrying out dirty work, and enjoyed the actual dirty work, the respect and fear he gained from others for it, no doubt. Both of their charts have a lot of aspects and power that gets directed out of their Moon/toward their Moon... But, this one seems the type to be all business, loyalty, on the surface, but personal pleasures, indulgences underneath... a man who liked to take orders, but not so much as give orders... I doubt his Ascendant of Aquarius is inaccurate as well.

~shrug~

Tau/Cap/Lib - Hitler
Lib/Ari/Aqua - Himmler

--- or monster/monster/monster - both ^^;
m~(_ _)~m ( なさけようしゃ )

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's really weird is the way his Mercury is so afflicted yet he was able to experience tremendous success as an orator. Mercury conjuncts the descendant from six and this house is traditionally thought of as malefic. Look at the effect his speeches had on millions? Evil.

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GemNymph
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posted April 23, 2013 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GemNymph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am in complete agreement with Jeanne Avery. I would say very late Libra ASC, and she has Libr 26. Works for me.

We have to remember that the ASC is one part of a larger whole and you have to consider how it fits into that.

That someone personally don't see Hitler as attractive or alluring in the way they think Libra ASCs ought to be means nothing. That's way too subjective and selective. Our subjective ideas of what we find attractive also doesn't account for how Hitler decided to be the OPEN ENEMY (hint hint) of so many other countries and peoples. A Scorpio ASC means a Taurus DC, eth Taurus ruling the 7th. Now Taurus is stubborn yes, but also highly invested in its own self-protection. That means Taurus has to be pushed into a corner before it declares war. Was that Hitler? No. Hitler was very aggressive when it came to being someone else's enemy. It was a very large part of his personality. There's no mistakng it: Hitler had an Aries-ruled 7th house.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've been told that Libra ASCs are so nice. Pfft. You haven't lived until you've had a feud with a Libra ASC. Ask anyone who's fueded with Courtney Love, or who's divorced a Libra ASC. It's because Aries rules their 7th house. You mess with them on a personal level, and they will go to war with you.

Additionally, if you look at Avery's chart for Hitler you see Capricorn energy is critical places: the 3rd house, his Moon conjunct Jupiter, and Saturn in the 10th. He experienced a profound sense of antagonism toward society--it let him down. And this isn't any regular kind of disappointment--this is Cap moon disappointment. The kind that never forgives and never forgets, and is just waiting for you to show vulnerabity so they can demoralize you out of spite (my mom is a Cap moon--I know this all too well). What was his response to all his Cap moon disappointment? To design and assert a new order--one hghly unforgiving and that appreciated him as its father figure (something that must have been very satisfying for his Cap moon conjunct Jupiter). He was severely condeming of anyone not fitting his rules. Combine that with an Aries-driven willingness of make enemies of anyone who stands in your way and you go somethng that looks remarkably like...well, like Hitler.

One last thing: not only was Hitler a firey orator and speech-maker (hint hint), that he was so good at communicating the EXPANSIVENESS of his vision for this new order is fitting of a Sag-ruled 3rd house with Jupiter residing. I have Jupiter in the 3rd house--I have very large ideas, but with the house ruled by Scorpio, my communication of those ideas can get turned around and muddled. If my 3rd house was ruled by Sag instead, I bet I'd have fired-up minions lined up to help me put my ideas into reality, you know, like Hitler did.

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Kerosene
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posted April 23, 2013 10:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
What's really weird is the way his Mercury is so afflicted yet he was able to experience tremendous success as an orator. Mercury conjuncts the descendant from six and this house is traditionally thought of as malefic. Look at the effect his speeches had on millions? Evil.

Moon and jupiter are in their third house very charismatic planets
Moon is in fall and jupiter is debilitated.
Which is why he is so deceitful.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GemNymph - yeah, I think Libra ascending goes way beyond looks and has certain, strange karmic connotations.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Moon and jupiter are in their third house very charismatic planets
Moon is in fall and jupiter is debilitated.
Which is why he is so deceitful.

Moon in fall would explain his coldness, lack of empathy and even his lack of attraction. It's a complete contradiction of the success he experienced. His looks repelled many yet he prospered. Go figure!

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Kerosene
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posted April 23, 2013 10:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^
Oh yeah I just remembered!!!
Gandhi is a libra riser he's not known for his looks or sex appeal even in his youth.
He is a very charismatic man thou.
Interesting enough they both libra asc 26 degrees...

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And they both turned out so differently, too.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted April 23, 2013 11:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's interesting, I have Libra Ascendant like Hitler, except mine is at nine degrees exactly while his is much later in Libra, at 26, almost at Scorpio, just three degrees away, give or take a few minutes? Hitler has sun at zero degrees Taurus which astrologers call critical. My sun is roughly nine degrees Virgo. His ascendant ruler is in Taurus conjunct Mars and makes no aspect with the Libra rising degree although Taurus and Libra are naturally quincunx signs while his sun is opposite his ascendant. My sun semi sextiles my ascendant while three planets conjunct the ascending degree sextile the chart ruler, Venus, placed in Leo in house ten. One of the planets is Mercury and there's a vast gulf between the way Hitler thinks and how I do. Hitler has Mercury opposite his ascending degree.

I am a 180 on him intellectually. I believe in freedom for all while he only wants it for a select few. I oppose extreme nationalism while he built a party identity on it. I do not hold one group above all others. I do not believe one country should invade another. Totally different just because my chart ruler is in a Libra friendly sign and makes nice aspects to the ascendant and planets conjunct it, imo.

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