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Author Topic:   Suicide predictions in Natal Chart - 12th and 8th house?
Runnergurrl
Newflake

Posts: 9
From: Paris, France
Registered: Jun 2013

posted July 13, 2013 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Runnergurrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi all. I'm helping a friend understand her father's suicide with his natal chart. Here is a link to his astro.com chart.
http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=astro_w2gw_02_man_hp.84023.30507.gif&res=63&va=&cid=ou1fileZOgisd-u1372977245

When he was 8 years old, he told his mother that he would not live to see his 25th birthday but he couldn't explain how he knew that. He hung himself in his parents backyard, and was found the day of his 25th birthday. He had two young daughters both under 4 years old, and he and his wife were going through a divorce.

So far I think that he had extreme emotions and self criticism, and cannot thrive in a chaotic home life. Pluto in the 12th may indicate that he had a feeling of helplessness when things go wrong, and he was highly in touch with his spirituality, which he associated with perfection (virgo moon). North node is in 4th house of home and family which indicates that this was his life's direction. Sun is in 7th house, and so his divorce may have really hit him hard. The fact that he committed the act in his parent's yard tells me that family meant a lot to him, and so when his was going wrong, he retreated to his childhood sanctuary. His 12H uranus is square mars, so I was thinking it could have been an act of impulsiveness as a result of helplessness and extreme emotional distress. I haven't yet looked at his transits. But he was found on his 25th birthday.

Any thoughts?

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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake

Posts: 2429
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012

posted July 13, 2013 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How sad. I can see the family problems pushing him to the edge in the chart.

Mars is practically on the IC involved in a t square with 12/Uranus,7/Sun.

Afflicted 5h Venus in Pisces, very sensitive, emotional person. Strong feelings. A lack of enjoyment in life/apathy. It is afflicted and connected to Mars by a harmonious aspect. He had good times and bad in his family life. The bad times he took very personally, affected him deeply. Amplified since Venus rules his ascendant.

Aries 7h sun is driven to action by others. His focus is more on other people, for better or worse. Notice IC Mars afflicts Aries sun in the sign of its exaltation? Particularly intense, that aspect!

The afflictions to 2h Jupiter/Neptune to Venus suggests struggle financially and issues feeling low self worth, like he can never do enough/measure up in life. He might have compared his successes/failures to those of others.

IC Mars squares the Ascendant, too, Libra. IC Mars is stronger due to being in Capricorn. Mars is considered weaker in Libra. Not good for sense of self and Mars can be a violence indicator in a chart, impulsiveness, too. Libra ascendants can be quite morose and gloomy, prone to depression. I know because i have it and am like this, sometimes.

Its something inside him, not the fault of his family. Suicidal people suffer from depression.

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Kerosene
Knowflake

Posts: 3170
From: Mercury
Registered: Dec 2012

posted July 13, 2013 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know this stereotyping but I know many people with moon conjunct/opp pluto that suffer from extreme depression and suicidal thoughts or have attempted suicide in the past..

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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake

Posts: 2429
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012

posted July 13, 2013 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did he reach out to others at some point? Harmonious aspects to the moon/Pluto in 12 suggests he did reach out. The tense aspects say he eventually became overwhelmed.

Saturn in 8 in good aspect to 12 says he did receive some help? Was he ever treated for depression? Were others aware of it?

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Runnergurrl
Newflake

Posts: 9
From: Paris, France
Registered: Jun 2013

posted July 13, 2013 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Runnergurrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for you additional insight! IC can indicate death right? So 7th house sun to the mars on IC could mean that the end of his marriage triggered it?

Do you have any thoughts regarding his own prediction of death when he was a child? Or could this just be a coincidence having to do with transits at the time?

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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake

Posts: 2429
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012

posted July 13, 2013 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In his case, the IC along with the t square indicate his suicide, imo, also the squares to asc and dsc from Mars, part of the t square, I guess. Notice it's on the asc? I have seen that in another chart, not a t square, but opps on the asc/desc between personal and outer planets.

I don't really like negative self fulfilling prophecies and that's what it sounds like...not really a prediction...

You could contribute it to moon/Uranus/Pluto in h12 and Venus in Pisces.

Uranus and Pluto tend to be very subliminal in house 12.

A lot of suicides come about because of the pressures the depressed individual feels regarding end of a marriage or loss of gainful employment. His was family related. Mars conjunct IC square Sun indicates this, imo. Aries is impulisve/action oriented. His suicide might have been a very impulsive act? A lot of times I think suicides are done on impulse and the person would regret it later.

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Cynnared
Knowflake

Posts: 1024
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 13, 2013 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cynnared     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmmmmm, this man is five days younger than me. I see that nasty and volatile T square with sun/mars/Uranus. I read in an astrology book, a very long time ago, that an afflicted mars can indicate suicide.

This is just triggering off some memories from fall to spring 1995 - 1996 era. Though I am not an astro twin, but, our birthdates are close together and I find at times when people have this, it seems like they go through similar experiences. Fall 1995, I was suicidal and attempted, but, then I ended up in the hospital for 10 days. I experienced the worst breakup in my life - it totally devastated me. I cried for days, cause I loved the guy so though I think it was my great insecurity ( Venus square to Jupiter/Neptune) and not seeing a relationship in a realistic light was part of the problem. I have moon sextiling BOTH Saturn and Pluto and have found aspects to be stable. I figure Saturn trine would be good, not sure about the moon/Pluto aspect possibly intense.

Saturn squaring the nodes can have a deeply blocked and thwarted feeling. It squares both my nodes and MC though. Not like his. The areas of life and interpretations are different.

He has Sun, very loosely, conjuncting Chiron - involved in the Volatile T square. This brings up a lot is self issues and self worth too. I know for me the self issues I have struggled with and felt like a space alien amongst others, though this might not be the case for him.

I think with his Jupiter return back in Sept 1995, it may have amplified the relationship issues and may have driven the self issues into overload cause of the divorce. He might have reached out for help, but was too overcome with relationship issues, bad depression etc.
(I was severely depressed back then. I was prescribed an antidepressant in Jan 1996).

That is my guess.

Possibly more input later as the information percolates in my mind. I seem to be getting a bunch of intuitive insight with this.

Yes, Venus/Jupiter/Neptune makes for a highly sensitive person who would do anything for those he/she loves. But does not see the relationship in a clear light.

The spiritual side is reflected by the Jupiter/ Neptune conjunction.

Mars/Uranus can be highly impulsive.

I hope this makes sense.

I am wondering what his childhood was like and the relationship with his folks and siblings.

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Venusian Moon
Knowflake

Posts: 776
From: Nyc
Registered: Feb 2013

posted July 13, 2013 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venusian Moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My father commited suicide also when I was 4 years old. By hanging as well.


Drugs were involved too.

HIS NATAL AND TRANSITS OF THE DAY HE CUT THE CORD:

NATAL ASPECTS


Jupiter Conjunction Uranus Orb 2°25'
Sun Conjunction MC Orb 5°19'
Sun Conjunction Mercury Orb 8°05'
Uranus Conjunction AS Orb 9°01'
Sun Opposite Neptune Orb 1°58'
Neptune Opposite MC Orb 3°20'
Moon Opposite Uranus Orb 4°05'
Moon Opposite AS Orb 4°55'
Moon Opposite Jupiter Orb 6°30'
Moon Square Neptune Orb 0°50'
Sun Square Uranus Orb 1°15'
Moon Square MC Orb 2°30'
Sun Square Moon Orb 2°49'
Uranus Square Neptune Orb 3°14'
Sun Square Jupiter Orb 3°41'
Mercury Square Jupiter Orb 4°24'
Saturn Square Pluto Orb 4°50'
Jupiter Square Neptune Orb 5°40'
Neptune Square AS Orb 5°46'
Uranus Square MC Orb 6°35'
Mercury Square Uranus Orb 6°49'
Sun Square AS Orb 7°45'
Venus Trine Saturn Orb 0°15'
Sun Trine Pluto Orb 0°32'
Jupiter Trine Saturn Orb 1°41'
Venus Trine Jupiter Orb 1°57'
Saturn Trine Uranus Orb 4°07'
Venus Trine Uranus Orb 4°22'
Moon Trine Mars Orb 5°26'
Pluto Trine MC Orb 5°52'
Mercury Trine Pluto Orb 7°33'
Mars Sextile AS Orb 0°30'
Neptune Sextile Pluto Orb 2°31'
Mercury Inconjunction Saturn Orb 2°42'
Mercury SemiSquare Mars Orb 1°21'
Venus SesquiQuadrate AS Orb 1°36'
Mars BiQuintile Neptune Orb 0°16'
Uranus SemiSextile Pluto Orb 0°43'
Display and Calculation Parameters


URANUS IN THE 12TH ALSO LIKE YOUR FRIENDS FATHER. AND BOTH HAD ARIES SUNS. AND ALSO BOTH HAVE VENUS IN PISCES.

Poor beautiful souls. May they rest in peace.

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Runnergurrl
Newflake

Posts: 9
From: Paris, France
Registered: Jun 2013

posted July 13, 2013 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Runnergurrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I understand, his home life as a child was fairly stable in the traditional sense. I'm sure it didn't seem so to him based on what I'm getting from his Natal. I also know that he did have multiple issues with drug addictions (and rehab I believe), and was very artistic. With the depression, I agree wholeheartedly that he was suffering. I can just look at photos of him and I feel it emanating from him. His prophecy from childhood was cleared by a psychologist. I feel that there was a bit of synchronicity happening, at 25 things were falling apart, and he may have just felt that it "was time" or that "it fit" based on what he said as a child. I think I read somewhere that 12H pluto can bring feelings of helplessness and stress about life changes.

Cynnared, I really value your insight. I hadn't looked at the transits yet, but from what you've said it seems that it is something I would benefit from. I'm glad you made it through that rough time.

Venusian Moon, I'm so sorry for your loss. I wonder if there is in fact a connection between 12H uranus and pisces venus. Do you know any information about what was going on in your dad's life at the time?

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