posted July 28, 2013 07:39 AM            

However for some reason I missed to do that in my own. LOL

When I had a closer look I realized that this guy and me not only both have a Venus-Pluto-square natally, but we both have the rulers of 5th and 11th house squaring each other. His occupies his natal 10th and 7th house. Mine occupies my natal 10th and 1st house.
(hard to NOT see the reflecting-mechanism, right? ).

Synastrically his Venus falls into my 2nd house and his pluto into my 10th house.
my Venus, my 5th house ruler, falls into his 10th house, and my Pluto, my 11th and 12th house ruler, in his 7th house.
his 5th house ruler falls into my 1st house, his 11th house ruler falls into my 9th house.

This is interesting for several reasons, but one certainly being that through synastric overlays we mirror natal configurations, mutually.

For example:
natally he has the ruler of 11th house in 7th house (conjunct DESC),a nd the ruler of 7th house in 11th house-
now I put my 11th house ruler into his 7th house (and in exact sextile with his 7th house ruler, at the same time my 7th house ruler is squared by his 11th house ruler - I never said it was easy).

he also has natally his 5th house ruler in 10th house (conjunct MC).
I put my own 5th house ruler into his 10th house. (my 5th house ruler is trined by his 10th house ruler) *scratches head*

for me natally I have 5th house ruler falling into 1st house.
Synastrically his 5th house ruler falls into my 1st house.

In short words I expect (from my natal) a connection between 5th house and 1st house. That feels natural to me. And he delivers it from the outside, thus it feels right to me.
Well not everyone likes a mirror, but according to my chart I do.
It would be stronger if there was an actual aspect though. Well as a matter of fact my 5th house ruler is trine his intercepted 1st house ruler, though it is on the wide side (almost 5 degrees).

posted July 28, 2013 08:09 AM            

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For example, if someone’s Uranus falls in my third house, the method tells me that I could expect that person to shake up my immediate environment in some way, or to stimulate my thinking or communication style, or to convince my brother to get a sex change. But if the third house isn’t emphasized in my chart, and I have no planets there, or if the partner’s Uranus doesn’t make any important contacts with my personal planets, then that Uranus falling in the third will have very little meaning. It won’t have no meaning, but it will have very little actual impact on the relationship. (Of course, it will matter a bit more if that Uranus is dominant in the other person’s chart –conjunct the Ascendant, or square the Sun, for example). I have a slightly different method

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posted July 28, 2013 11:10 AM            

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Originally posted by mir:
If I'd put my bet too much on houses I would prob. be very dissapointed now since our Moons in each other's 7th and both our Sun/Venus in each other's 5th while those houses are completely empty in our natals.
But no, birthtime is a too unreliable factor for me to hang up everything on that, or at least MUCH.

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posted July 28, 2013 11:11 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Interestingly and coincidentally I pretty much look for the same stuff she does, at least generally, when looking at others charts.

However for some reason I missed to do that in my own. LOL

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posted July 28, 2013 11:47 AM            

However I never never NEVER just check for the 5th, 7th, 8th house and see if something is in there. Misleading at best to be honest.

That is why I posted the examples I did. What could I even do with houseoverlays in these houses? Especially the 5th and 7th.
There is nothing there from my natal.

My natal clearly sais that what is natural to me, is an overlay in the first quadrant. For other people it may be boring, for me it is part of my inner relating pattern.

As to unreliable birthtimes, maybe I am just lucky living in Germany. The birthimes are noted exact down to 15 minutes here for every birth.

AS a matter of fact i did a rectification once to get my birthtime, just to end up with the one my mom told me about, and since I did not believe her (as we all know how reliable mother`s are in that respect, right?), but I must have a very observing mother, cause she mentioned the same birthtime like I later found out was on my birthcertificate, and it was the result of my rectification, too.

posted July 28, 2013 02:41 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
i`d never do an interpretation without the houseruler-dynamics. Seriously lacking otherwise. Or actually more like the aspects floating in air, while the houses provide the background in the physical manifestation sphere, the anchoring.

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What if you only have the exact birthtime for one individual in a synastry? I could still gain an understanding of why a particular individual has a certain impact on me even if I couldn't get much understanding of how it plays from their end, right? And I could still see SOME of the mirroring, like if we both have squares between Venus-Mars. Or is it just too frustrating to even bother? Shoot, I only have birthtimes for my younger sister and me. I don't even have birthtimes for my older siblings and parents!

posted July 28, 2013 03:07 PM            

" I could still gain an understanding of why a particular individual has a certain impact on me even if I couldn't get much understanding of how it plays from their end, right? And I could still see SOME of the mirroring, like if we both have squares between Venus-Mars. Or is it just too frustrating to even bother?"
Yes, of course, the aspect patterns will be there and very valid. You don´t always know which area is impacted most, though.
And you have to keep in mind that it is more general as if you had the birthtimes, which gives the most individualized picture of a natal chart (or synastry).

Having a birthtime, just makes the interpretation more individual; doesn`t mean it would be wrong without, just not as deeply tied to the individual.

Just think of it: Everyone born the same day will have the same aspect pattern with you.
Heck, even people born in the same 2 weeks will have the same pattern with you (excluding the Moon here, but this one you need the birthtime for as well).

However, knowing both birthtimes, anchors the synastry in these two exact moments.

If one of you were born just several minutes later or earlier (up to 2 hours), this would delivier very different results in terms of housebackground- and rulership.

For example in my case, if i had been born 2 hours later, Mercury wouldn`t be the ruler of my 7th house (and therefore carrying a lot of my partner ideal) anymore, but ruling my 6th house.

So, as it my Mercury conjuncts his Sun and Moon and MC, and as Mercury rules my 7th house, yes, I do sometimes consider him to be the best thing next to sliced bread.
And there is a very personal pull for me.

With the 6th house ruler conjunct his Sun, Moon and MC, there would be more an emphasis on working together for example, it wouldn`t have any meaning of romantic or personal relationships (meaning a romantic relationship; of course it still could be a good thing for a professional relationship).

However, nevertheless my Mercury still will be conjunct his Sun, MOon and MC and THAT meaning will stay, no matter where the houses fall. Possibly everyone or anyone (?) born on that very day will peak my interest (Mercury) and make me enjoy talking with them.
HOwever in this very case his Moon and MC are of course highly time sensitive as well, so not everyone born that day will have these objects so close to my Mercury.

So, what I want to say is that while of course aspect pattern without housebackgrounds are VERY valid and important, the housebackground makes it more specific.

posted July 28, 2013 03:38 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
If one of you were born just several minutes later or earlier (up to 2 hours), this would delivier very different results in terms of housebackground- and rulership.

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Yes. I find this SO frustrating. I already know how they impact ME (though it's nice to gain more insight into WHY). Sometimes I find myself "playing" with a chart, trying different times. Sometimes I hit on a timeframe that seems to "click" with everything I know about them. Sometimes not. Sigh. Why can't people just be born with their birthtimes stamped on their foreheads!!

posted July 28, 2013 04:16 PM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
Why can't people just be born with their birthtimes stamped on their foreheads!!

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posted July 28, 2013 04:17 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I hear you!

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posted July 28, 2013 04:20 PM            

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Originally posted by Selene:
Yes and houses and house ruler aspects really defines if there will be attraction between people or not. Say, we may have many people, with whom we share Venus - Mars conjunction, but if there will be no house - related stuff, it would not manifest itself...

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Yes, I have an example from my own archives.
My best friend`s husband`s Venus is conjunct my Mars.
Venus rules his IC, Mars rules my IC (we also have Moon-Moon-conjunction by under 2 degrees).

While we got each other quite well from the beginning (strange feeling of almost being related to each other), there was never ever any kind of physical chemistry (I met him before my best friend did).

However THEY have a tight ASC-DESC-conjunction with his Sun conjunct her DESC.

posted July 28, 2013 04:50 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Yes, I have an example from my own archives.
My best friend`s husband`s Venus is conjunct my Mars.
Venus rules his IC, Mars rules my IC (we also have Moon-Moon-conjunction by under 2 degrees).

While we got each other quite well from the beginning (strange feeling of almost being related to each other), there was never ever any kind of physical chemistry (I met him before my best friend did).

However THEY have a tight ASC-DESC-conjunction with his Sun conjunct her DESC.

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posted July 28, 2013 05:37 PM            

But yes I agree, it must be doubled for you.
Just as my Venus carries the doubled way in a relationship sense (as Venus, and as ruler of 5th house).

posted July 28, 2013 05:37 PM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[b]
Yes, I have an example from my own archives.
My best friend`s husband`s Venus is conjunct my Mars.
Venus rules his IC, Mars rules my IC (we also have Moon-Moon-conjunction by under 2 degrees).

While we got each other quite well from the beginning (strange feeling of almost being related to each other), there was never ever any kind of physical chemistry (I met him before my best friend did).

However THEY have a tight ASC-DESC-conjunction with his Sun conjunct her DESC.

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[/B][/QUOTE]

that is why you need to put away cookbooks.